House passes 95 billion aid package

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

You sound like a russian propaganda-troll..

 

So, you are saying that when Russia, being the aggressor, invades a sovereign nation.. what the victim of said aggression must do is to yield to the invader and vacate their own country..?

What I'm saying is

a/ one has to take reality into consideration. Do you think the good people of Diego Garcia should have taken up arms against Britain when it ejected them from their own land and gave it to the Americans?

 

b/ Ukraine, to my knowledge, had no treaty with the US or the EU/ Britain requiring them to come to their aid, so they took it on themselves to foment a war in which they suffered no dead, but thousands of dead Ukrainians and great destruction of the country.

 

If it were a question of aiding a people suffering under a bully, I can think of many more deserving of aid than Ukraine, but as those people are not white...............................

Where was the aid for Tibet when the Chinese invaded it?

[Walker88]

4 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

That has a lot to do with the booming stockmarket and strong economic growth under Biden. Biden, unlike Trump, has not gone out of his way to cut their taxes...

Isn't it amazing how 'trickle down' via tax cuts never actually reaches the majority, but strong organic growth, such as the strongest growth since the late 1990s, lifts most all boats, billionaires and the educated/clever alike. That it might leave out the poorly educated trumpers is not the fault of Biden, as people must have a needed skill or talent to partake in the modern economy. On balance, trumpers lack anything the modern economy demands, so understandably they are not keeping up.

[NanLaew]

59 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

With what money?  We're $34.6 Trillion in debt.

 

 

And that's all because of Biden's enduring support for Israel?

 

I see.

[Excogitator]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What I'm saying is

a/ one has to take reality into consideration. Do you think the good people of Diego Garcia should have taken up arms against Britain when it ejected them from their own land and gave it to the Americans?

 

b/ Ukraine, to my knowledge, had no treaty with the US or the EU/ Britain requiring them to come to their aid, so they took it on themselves to foment a war in which they suffered no dead, but thousands of dead Ukrainians and great destruction of the country.

 

If it were a question of aiding a people suffering under a bully, I can think of many more deserving of aid than Ukraine, but as those people are not white...............................

Where was the aid for Tibet when the Chinese invaded it?

That was then. This is now. 

Just because there is a historical precedence of the bully getting his way, doesn't mean that that should always be the case, and that the bully always must win. At least as long as the victim has a fighting chance, which Ukraine has proven ever since the invasion that they have. And in any case, should Ukraine eventually lose, at least the bully has been left with a bloody nose and then some, and might reconsider going on a similar bullying rampage again in the future..

[rexpotter]

The post was a bit of a joke, but after I looked at it for a while, I realized it is a very sad deal. The guy there at the ATM is obviously from the US. He is worn out from working his arse off all his life, probably divorced, lost his home and his kids to another woman who was tricked by the lawyers into separating from him and trying to have a little bit of fun before it’s all over. A very adult working slave of the American system who finally realized the big joke was on him, That’s is how I see it.

[Excogitator]

15 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Isn't it amazing how 'trickle down' via tax cuts never actually reaches the majority, but strong organic growth, such as the strongest growth since the late 1990s, lifts most all boats, billionaires and the educated/clever alike. That it might leave out the poorly educated trumpers is not the fault of Biden, as people must have a needed skill or talent to partake in the modern economy. On balance, trumpers lack anything the modern economy demands, so understandably they are not keeping up.

Indeed, 'trickle down economy' is a proven fallacy..

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

And that's all because of Biden's enduring support for Israel?

 

I see.

 

A billion here, a billion there, and eventually you're talking about real money.  Since its founding America has given $260B to Israel.  Add interest, and the Present Value of that aid is probably close to $1Trillion.  I'd add that the US is the biggest donor to Israel, when that should be the Europeans who actually perpetrated the Holocaust.  But we're a soft touch for the Israeli lobby. 

 

Don't even get me started on Epstein and blackmail...  Or the USS Liberty.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel

 

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, Excogitator said:

You sound like a russian propaganda-troll..

 

So, you are saying that when Russia, being the aggressor, invades a sovereign nation.. what the victim of said aggression must do is to yield to the invader and vacate their own country..?

That's exactly what he is. DISGUSTING. 

[OneMoreFarang]

It's almost funny when the US politicians pretend they have a big money tree.

Who will pay those 95 billion? They need to borrow 95 billion more to give it to other countries. And they do exactly that. Amazing.

 

I wonder how long it will take before the American people will wake up and realize that lots of good things could happen inside of the USA if the US politicians would use the money inside their own country - or just not borrow more and more money. 

[Robert Paulson]

If you could somehow do an experiment where taxpayers got to check boxes to send their taxes to Ukraine, or keep them at home (and they will see the benefits) to fund roads, schools healthcare… who is going to check the Ukraine box? Nobody. Not a single person. If you do actually give the benefits to only the taxpayers who checked the keep money at home box. There is no argument here. Nobody actually supports this stuff, they just pretend, virtue signal and are led astray by propaganda.again, If they saw the actual benefits in real life, there would be no discussion 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's almost funny when the US politicians pretend they have a big money tree.

Who will pay those 95 billion? They need to borrow 95 billion more to give it to other countries. And they do exactly that. Amazing.

 

I wonder how long it will take before the American people will wake up and realize that lots of good things could happen inside of the USA if the US politicians would use the money inside their own country - or just not borrow more and more money. 

Simplistic thinking 

This isn't a zero sum game.

If the US and the west caves to the authorisatarian axis power of Russia, Iran / Hamas / Hezbollah,  China, North Korea and Putin's inside man Trump, the eventual degradation of quality of life in the US and west will be exponentially worse than increased debt.

 

To add the Ukraine aid is mostly not increased debt. It's sending arms that need to be replaced anyway.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

If you could somehow do an experiment where taxpayers got to check boxes to send their taxes to Ukraine, or keep them at home (and they will see the benefits) to fund roads, schools healthcare… who is going to check the Ukraine box? Nobody. Not a single person. If you do actually give the benefits to only the taxpayers who checked the keep money at home box. There is no argument here. 

The argument is that people elect representatives and leaders are tasked with making hard complex decisions. The vast majority of Americans support helping Ukraine. 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The argument is that people elect representatives and leaders are tasked with making hard complex decisions. The vast majority of Americans support helping Ukraine. 

 

I'm not disagreeing, because I don't know.  You got a link for that?

 

This is one American that supports rebuilding Ukraine with loans that could be forgiven under the right incentives, but not a dime more to perpetuate the killing in a war that's already been lost.  And that doesn't make me a fan of Putin or Russia.  Just a realist that worries about WW3. 

 

And what will happen to Israelis if the USA gets sucked into wars in Europe and the Pacific?

 

[connda]

2 hours ago, Excogitator said:

There's no contradiction between helping Americas friends and allies, now fighting our common enemy, and helping veterans at home. Both can and must be done.

Billions for "friends and allies."
Pennies and lip-service for US vets and the "working homeless" and the Gen-Z "near-homeless" who are now a common sight in all US cities.

Imagine if you can - $95 billion USD to take care of the homeless issue.  How about $850 billion earmarked for US infrastructure upgrades instead of corporate welfare for Team America World Police and the Military Industrial Complex annually.

I'm a "boomer" and an anti-war US veteran.  And Major General Smedley Butler was 100% correct - "War's A Racket." 

 

The beneficiaries:  Corporations and Arms Manufacturers
The victims:  US cannon-fodder veterans, the foreign recipients of US "Freedom Bombs" and Democracy JDAMs, and the US taxpayers and average US citizens who are recipients of "Freedom Inflation" as the political class creates money out of thin air to make transfer payments to Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing, and the rest of their Super Pac corporate and NGO donors who make a mockery of US democracy. 

As we said during 'Nam:  Fighting for Freedom is like ****ing for Chasity. 

 

Nothing has changed in the last 70 years.  A society living on a "War Economy" like the US does creates money out of thin air and export death.  It doesn't have to be that way - the US could retool, recreate a manufacturing base, and export products, and work on balancing its trade deficient.  Instead, Janet Yellen and other corporate proxies go whinging and crying about how Communist Party of China is more of a successful market economy than the United States.  So what is the US' answer to that - start a war with China.  If you can't beat them economically - then overthrow their governments and kill their citizens. That's been the freaking US model since I was born.  It's empire and it always fails in the end.  For those who study history, but who studies history in this dumbed-down world anymore?

The US neo-cons and neo-lib war-hawks are screaming for a multi-front war with Russia, China, Iran/ME/NA, and North Korea.  Gonna tell ya'll a secret US and Canadian peeps:  The Pacific and Atlantic won't protect the North America when they finally provoke WWIII in order to bring "Freedom And Democracy To The Axis Of Evil." 

Nobody "wins"; everyone loses. So wave your little flags and cheer for the death and destruction of "your enemies."  Best of luck with that when regional war turns into global war.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

I'm not disagreeing, because I don't know.  You got a link for that?

 

This is one American that supports rebuilding Ukraine with loans that could be forgiven under the right incentives, but not a dime more to perpetuate the killing in a war that's already been lost.  And that doesn't make me a fan of Putin or Russia.  Just a realist that worries about WW3. 

 

And what will happen to Israelis if the USA gets sucked into wars in Europe and the Pacific?

 

Rebuilding Ukraine?

That's for after Ukraine wins.

If Russia wins that's on Russia.

[G_Money]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

With what money?  We're $34.6 Trillion in debt.

 

Not to worry.  Biden’s working on getting the funds from the US tax payers.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-campaign-blasts-biden-largest-tax-hike-americans-face-record-high-inflation?cmpid=FNC_app#

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Rebuilding Ukraine?

That's for after Ukraine wins.

If Russia wins that's on Russia.

Russia's already got the Crimea (under Obama).  They have the Donbass.  (Under Biden).  They've already had elections in both, whether to stay in Russia or revert to Ukraine.   And there is no way to win those back in a ground war against Russia.   Not going to happen, even with all the Ukrainians left, fighting to the death.  Those, Russia will rebuild (and based on GDP per capita, those residents will have a better quality of life than the Ukrainians)

 

That leaves about 90% of pre-war Ukraine to rebuild.

Or, you can completely annihilate the rest of an entire generation of Ukrainian men.  Then rebuild.  That's the only question...  How many more to die before accepting the L.

 

 

[G_Money]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Isn't it amazing how 'trickle down' via tax cuts never actually reaches the majority, but strong organic growth, such as the strongest growth since the late 1990s, lifts most all boats, billionaires and the educated/clever alike. That it might leave out the poorly educated trumpers is not the fault of Biden, as people must have a needed skill or talent to partake in the modern economy. On balance, trumpers lack anything the modern economy demands, so understandably they are not keeping up.

Time to educate yourself.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-campaign-blasts-biden-largest-tax-hike-americans-face-record-high-inflation?cmpid=FNC_app#

[Amethyst]

Please continue the discussion of this topic in the following World News thread:

 

 

[Amethyst]

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