Health Ministry approves medical use of opium and magic mushrooms

[sabaijai]

8 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I've suffered from sinusitis on and off my entire life. I found pseudoephedrine very effective.

Same here. I've not come across any other pharmaceutical as effective. Not even close. YMMV

[DTL2014]

seriously good news - mushrooms have been found to effectively control alcholism. 

[Ebumbu]

"Beyond the seas of thought beyond the realm of what
Across the streams of hopes and dreams where things are really not"

 

"Come along if you care
Come along if you dare
Take a ride to the land inside of your mind"

 

Thank you Land of Smiles! 

[NaaKap]

13 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

Exactly.. Ganga approval was same same! 555

Exactly what I was thinking. The bluster for legalisation of cannibis came with the disclaimer that it was for medical use. Didn't realise Khao San Rd was a hospital. 

[Bday Prang]

6 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

So just for a frame of reference, this was published 4th, I was alerted 6th and Mon the 8th I was at a local traditional medicine clinic to discuss with the owner (not Dr, the Dr was not there) as soon as it opened. 

To be fair, she was not knowledgable as to even what mushrooms do. She is a businesswoman who believes that cannabis flowers will be rescheduled later this year and has set up a clinic and supply infrastructure to be able to 'sell' cannabis medically when that happens. No issue with that but clearly her motivation is profit and not medical care. Within a minute or two of meeting she emphasized she 'didnt take drugs' which in many ways sums up the mindset of what medical cannabis or mushrooms are. 

We talked the law, and the issues, and I tried to discuss the risks and how psychedelic therapy is generally handled in the west. Each point of resistance was just brushed aside with a yes yes that is fine.. I tried to explain that generally a therapy like this is much more than simply giving the dose but should have a therapy component before and after
'yes yes my Dr can do that'
'oh really, so your Dr has experience taking psychedelics'
'Oh NO !!'  
'hmmm ok.. So your Dr can speak English ?'

'little bit' 

Right so I can only imagine the kind of sensative therapy and cross cultural understanding there would be to handle a challanging psychedelic experience and then deal with the post experience integration !! From a DR that speaks 'nidnoi' english and has never taken them !! 

Secondly she appeared to have very little idea of even what mushrooms do !! When I asked why someone could be prescribed mushrooms her answer was 'if depressed or maybe can not sleep' !! (mushrooms for insomnia !!) when I asked what dosage she thought was right she said 'maybe a gram' the more I talked to her the more is appeared that she thought mushrooms were 'something like weed' a bit made you sleepy, a bit more made you more sleepy.. 

This is the level of understanding from the owner of a clinic that is supposed to adminsiter these therapies !! I am a STRONG believer in the power of properly adminsitered psychedelic therapy, but it has genuine risks of patient harm and needs a trained, educated and experienced sitter or guide and to achieve the most beneficial outcomes requires skilled therapists.  I am seriously thinking of setting up a non profit to deal with guide training, I know western guides operating underground already here in Thailand and Thais some of whom have even been trained overseas by MAPS and in the caribbean. Someone has to put in work on this or the opportunity will be wasted when bad things happen. 

 

we just used to make tea out of them  threw around 500 in a thermos and threw some boiling water at them. drank it about 15 min later,used to get us right off our heads,  Ah the good old days

What are the "sitters and guides" for?

[Luuk Chaai]

...and who in that ministry owns land in the  Golden Triangle ?

and come to think of it ..   2rai of land on my road just got sold to 2 young men who say they will be growing mushrooms..

and there is plenty of cow pie in the area

[scubascuba3]

22 hours ago, stoner said:

 

what ? 

Maybe he means it will mellow those dodgy farang that need drugs to keep calm 

[scubascuba3]

20 hours ago, connda said:

Palliative care is in the stone-age here in Thailand.  Thai medical "authorities" view on the subject of pain medication is that if you haven't developed Buddha-like abilities to sit in pain-free samadhi, then it's your bad karma to suffer in pain and agony.  So they have to keep pain meds away for the public - you know - like people dying of stage 4 cancer

Sadly people need to kill themselves prior to that stage

[scubascuba3]

I had a few pipes of opium with a Dr O in Laos did zero for me, i must be immune 

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

What are the "sitters and guides" for?

Primarily for harm reduction. People have challenging experiences, and in extreme cases those challenging experiences can mentally scar the person long term and create trauma. The goal of therputic work is to be able to process and deal with the things those challenging experiences bring up, and allow the person to change how they think about the issues they have often supressed. Establishing a safe trusting space and being a calming understanding presence through the experience is very often all that is needed to ensure that a small moment of panic doesnt spiral into a larger more damaging meltdown. Also by ensuring a safe uninterupted environment you reduce external triggers and stimulus which can cause that initial thought pattern. The goal of ensuring patient safety and maximising the potential positives of the experience is what 'guides and sitters' can do. Of course the more mental baggage a participant has that they are seeking to address, the more risk of those issues surfacing and being part of that challenging experience. 

Current theorys on the mechanisms of how this works, via the dissolution of the default mode network and the neuroplasticity that psychedelic experiences appear to generate are less important personally than the fact that this does measurably seem to happen. The use of psychedelics as tools for self improvement, even on basic things like 'I needs to improve my diet / fitness / health' or for people trying to reduce drinking or smoking. Evidence is showing there is no better tool for habit modulation, but they do come with risk and that risk is what needs cautious management. 

If Thailand goes the route it is apparently going, where mushrooms will be dispensed by Herbal Drs with zero knowledge or understanding, then patient harm and negative experiences will happen at a far greater ratio than they need to. Guidelines for beneficial use and guidance, as well as direct personal experience of what the patient may be going through is totally lacking in the Thai Traditional Medicine system that is now allowed to prescribe them. Thailand doesnt really have much indigenous or cultural use, there are not really Shamans to speak of like in S America where this is culturally understood. My experiences this last 2 weeks is the medical, psychiatric, and herbalist community have a near zero understand of what these do, others than 'mao' of some form.  

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, NaaKap said:

Exactly what I was thinking. The bluster for legalisation of cannibis came with the disclaimer that it was for medical use. Didn't realise Khao San Rd was a hospital. 

 

But in that case it became descheduled so it had no controls at all. In this case they have redefined who can prescribe, namely the system of Thai Traditional Medicine and the registered Herbalist Dr's which is a totally different form of control. 

The problem I have is that the people charged with handling this, seem utterly clueless in the responsibility they have been given. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Luuk Chaai said:

...and who in that ministry owns land in the  Golden Triangle ?

and come to think of it ..   2rai of land on my road just got sold to 2 young men who say they will be growing mushrooms..

and there is plenty of cow pie in the area

 

Cubensus mushrooms are grown in a controlled indoor environment, its a factory looking space not a garden. 

[jacko45k]

43 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe he means it will mellow those dodgy farang that need drugs to keep calm 

Or something to bring them down from a meth high?

[JayClay]

17 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

if only you would open your eyes you would see that is clearly not the case.  However that may well be the intention of any future legislation.

                What is wrong with people like you? After all this time , and with 10000+ clearly non medical retail outlets, millions smoking recreationally and not one arrest.You still insist on making your own rules up , give it a rest for gods sake, or start your own thread,  

 

     hashtag "but but but Anutin said .com

 

There is nothing wrong with "people like me", at least not on this point.

 

And I'm not making my own bleeding rules up. Do you even know what point you're actually trying to argue? or are you aware of what I was asking when you quoted me? Let me put it as plainly and simply as I can:

 

Point 1: The marijuana law relaxation was intended to be for "medical purposes only".

 

Point 2: When the laws were relaxed "for medical purposes only", thousands of weed shops appeared and (as you correctly pointed out) no arrests have ever been made for personal use since.

 

Point 3: The laws around magic mushrooms are now also to be relaxed for "medical purposes only".

 

Point 4: Because marijuana was legalised "for medical use only" there are people, both pro and anti, who are wondering if the mushrooms will be also available in the same shops in a similar way.

 

It's a very simple logical process to follow.

 

When I have more time I'll try and catch up with the rest of the thread to see if anybody has had a more helpful take on the topic.

 

By the way the "friend" for which I asked smokes marijuana fairly regularly, is very happy with the current availability, and is simply curious if there will be a new line available in such shops due to this ruling.

Edited April 26 by JayClay

[zzzzz]

as far a mushrooms goes , its the quality of them an the quantity you ingest>

seeing how many weed shops sell eatables with NO quality control ( THC%) i would expect the same will be handled by those selling mushrooms>

I would never buy a gummies or brownies here, NOR would i buy mushrooms unless from an official shop that shows where its from and % of Psilocybin in them 
 

 

Quote

 

Psilocybin is the main psychoactive ingredient in hallucinogenic mushrooms, also called "magic mushrooms" or "shrooms." There are over 100 species of mushrooms that contain psilocybin. 

Although people have been consuming magic mushrooms for thousands of years, the compound wasn't isolated until 1957 and it was produced synthetically a year later. Since 1970, psilocybin and psilocin (a closely related compound) have been listed by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Association (DEA) as Schedule I substances — the federal government's most restrictive category.

 

Despite these restrictions, recent clinical trials have found psilocybin to be a promising therapy for treatment-resistant anxiety and depression. Because of this, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has designated psilocybin as a "breakthrough therapy"— an action meant to accelerate the drug development and review process. 

In February 2023, Australia’s Therapeutic Goods Administration announced that psychiatrists would be able to prescribe psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression. However, the drug will only be allowed to be used in a very limited way and remains otherwise prohibited in the country.
https://www.livescience.com/psilocybin.html

 

 

 

[action]

21 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Why would you? Nasal Corticosteroids are safer and are dirt cheap in Thailand.

Why did I spend so much money at Bumurngrad on a licensed ENT doctor and 3 sinus surgeries when I could have just come to 'Asean Now' for all the super professional medical advice??
You guys are seriously awesome!  Thanks Doctor Celsius!!  

[Celsius]

10 minutes ago, action said:

Why did I spend so much money at Bumurngrad on a licensed ENT doctor and 3 sinus surgeries when I could have just come to 'Asean Now' for all the super professional medical advice??
You guys are seriously awesome!  Thanks Doctor Celsius!!  

 

I do wonder the same thing as your complaining was about not being able to buy Sudafed.

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 4/25/2024 at 3:47 AM, stoner said:

mushrooms are good for depression. 

so's a  shotgun...........but should we use them

[john donson]

opium, nice... after cannabis shops, let's go back 100-200 years in time with opium shops

 

 

opium based pain relievers worked so great in USA , right ? 100.000 overdose deaths ?

[Luuk Chaai]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Cubensus mushrooms are grown in a controlled indoor environment, its a factory looking space not a garden. 

of course mushrooms  large scale / commercial are grown indoors under controlled enviroments  so are mice, Romain Lettuce, and A.I.

I was making a reference to "Wild Shrooms"

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

of course mushrooms  large scale / commercial are grown indoors under controlled enviroments  so are mice, Romain Lettuce, and A.I.

I was making a reference to "Wild Shrooms"

I thought you were referring to '2rai of land on my road just got sold to 2 young men who say they will be growing mushrooms' so 2 rai being used to commercially grow cubensus mushrooms related to this topic. 
 

I hope to be allowed to a meeting between the Herbal clinic owners and the Chiang Mai MoPH on monday. From what my Clinic owning friend says she thinks this new law is the subject and reason why a group meeting is being called. 

If I am allowed to join, the issue of 'where' clinics are supposed to obtain thier Schedule 5 narcotics and if clinics can grow thier own product (what security and storage rules etc) will be a large part of what I am trying to determine. There is precident for that being the case as registered clinics can prepare thier own cannabis oil / concentrate for sale from thier own premesis with FDA concent. My Clinic owning friend makes her own brand of extracted oil, which is also a schedule 5 narcotic, and can prescibe it all in house, which would appear to be like for like comparisons. 


 

 

[jollyhangmon]

Ukraine War: Using drugs to combat war trauma

 

In Ukraine, the war is leading to a rethinking of psychotherapy: illegal substances such as ecstasy or so-called psychedelics are intended to provide support.

 

USA: ... But the lobby for the use of drugs in psychotherapy is growing, especially in the USA. The supporters have a powerful ally: the organizations of war veterans of the US armed forces. The U.S. government's Department of Veterans Affairs also supports the use of MDMA in the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). In fact, experts expect such a therapy to receive approval for the first time in 2024.

 

https://www-dw-com.translate.goog/de/ukraine-krieg-mit-drogen-gegen-kriegstraumata/a-67284993?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

( =>link should directly translate to EN ...)

 

[Rubenito]

Thank you LivinLOS for the information you're sharing here, it's really interesting and you're talking about some important points. I hope more and more people will take this law seriously, so we can create a safe framework for people to experience the benefits of psilo mushrooms for therapy.

Edited April 30 by Rubenito

[LivinLOS]

https://www.psypost.org/therapists-report-significant-psychological-risks-in-psilocybin-assisted-treatments/

And this is why the medical systems of Therapy need to be approached very carefully. 

There ARE huge potential benefits to carefully done and managed psychedlic therapy's.. There are also large risks and potential harms with a badly managed process.