Espresso for Europeans

[Retfed50]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:34 PM, Korat Kiwi said:

Hillkoff in Chiang Mai had a huge retail shop.  Both for machines and expendibles.  Amazing selection of beans. 

 

A breville BES878 is a great starter machine at around 31500 baht but they have machines all the way upto about 200k.   I like coffee but not that much! 

 

 

I agree. Have been drinking Hillkoff coffee for many years and have bern happy with it. I usually drink their "peaberry" but have gad their esoresso and it is quite good. You can buy online, but they do have coffee shops throughout the country so check ti see if one near you.

[TigerandDog]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Just mix it yourself, that's what i do, two thirds Arabica, 1 third Vietnam, it's all trial and error

seeing as you already mix your own, have you considered making a change from the 2/3 Arabica medium to 1/3 Arabica medium & 1/3 Arabica dark together with your 1/3 Robusta (preferably dark roast). An awesome flavour as a result of this blend.

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

seeing as you already mix your own, have you considered making a change from the 2/3 Arabica medium to 1/3 Arabica medium & 1/3 Arabica dark together with your 1/3 Robusta (preferably dark roast). An awesome flavour as a result of this blend.

Good idea, I'll  give that a try. I've just bought this one, Arabica french roast that doesn't need blending, but I'm still blending my other two

Edited May 6 by scubascuba3

[bendejo]

Talking beans here, not their drinks in the cafes.

Starbucks French Roast has that slightly-burnt espresso taste.

Starbucks Espresso beans are deep, dark roast but lack that "burned toast taste" as my coffee mentor of long ago would put it. Starbucks Verona is quite similar.

These are the names on the packages as sold in the U.S.  There is also a Starbucks Italian Roast which I never tried (it looks like they only sell it pre-ground).  Never bought such beans in SEA, too expensive, probably around $US20 for 12 ounces these days.

 

In LOS there was a coffee from Holland available at Big C and Tesco, called Moccona.  It came in 3 types, and the one in the green package (I think) had that burnt taste.

 

If in Pattaya, you may want to check out the roastery in the market at the south end of Soi Bukhao.

 

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, bendejo said:

 

If in Pattaya, you may want to check out the roastery in the market at the south end of Soi Bukhao.

A bit vague, presumably you mean Benjamit 

[G Rex]

My favorite seller - and favorite beans available in LOS

 

Colombia Supremo By Sias Koffee Roaster

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i3451955021-s17237591837.html?urlFlag=true&mp=1&tradePath=omItm&tradeOrderId=814394887286072&tradeOrderLineId=814394887386072

 

I have a double boiler ECM Espresso machine and a Eureka Mignon Grinder.

Good equipment , and good fresh beans are very important to make a really good coffee.

 

I have not found any Thai grown coffee that appeases my taste buds... yet

[frantick]

On 5/5/2024 at 4:05 PM, Lorry said:

I tried it and you are right 

Surprising indeed

Thx

 

BTW they sell packaged coffee too, but didn't know where.  They sent me to another branch where staff was incredibly rude (I am seriously thinking of complaining to headquarter, we are in Bangkok after all, not in Pattaya or mainland China) and didn't know anything either. 

Any idea where to buy it?

 

https://www.cafe-amazon.com/index.aspx?Lang=EN&PageID=1

 

Lazada has some, not sure how fresh. 

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

I grind my own beans and do NOT buy off the shelf from a supermarket as you don't know how long the beans have been sitting there, even more so if imported beans. I use Thai roasted beans (Doi Chang grown) which I buy from my local coffee shop as I know the beans he has have a high turnover rate which means they will be reasonably fresh for grinding. I blend my beans as follows 1/3 Arabica medium roast, 1/3 Arabica dark roast and 1/3 Robusta dark roast.

 

 

Valid point about freshness and turnover rate... 

 

This is why I like these guys... 

 

https://coffeeculture.asia/coffee-category/roasted-coffee-beans-thailand/arabica-coffee/#

 

Quite often I order, and they respond asking if I mind waiting an extra few days (up to a week)... because they have run out and are roasting a fresh batch on xx date etc...  I used to find that frustraiting until I realised its actually a very good thing - freshness guaranteed. 

 

That said - It is my understanding that freshly roast coffee should be stored for a couple of weeks to allow the CO2 to escape (or something similar). 

 

 

 

 

[Paris333]

You should be very causius when you are going to drink or to buy bag of coffee because the price of coffee in commodities have been increased since....many years ago....

So when a shop offer you "cheap" price of coffee that means they sell you a mix of coffee with cat sh.... and camel sh.... with many other "substances" for "tasty".....

It is usually sold in cheese pie/bread shops as an "offer" take away to attract customers........

Most of coffee shops chain have been bought from "investors" to launder black money usually from heroin/cocaine issuing "receipt" of expenses for locals Authorities.

As an employee you are paid in Greek take away coffee "shops" €13.000 - €14.000 yearly with 8 working hours per day five (5) days per week and 5-10 days off during Christmas or Easter furthermore 30 days regular paid leave yearly and bonus .......

Source:

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coffee

Source:

https://www.enjoybettercoffee.com/Swiss-Brands-s/558.htm

Is it possible quality & at low price?

Edited May 6 by Paris333

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Paris333 said:

You should be very causius when you are going to drink or to buy bag of coffee because the price of coffee in commodities have been increased since....many years ago....

So when a shop offer you "cheap" price of coffee that means they sell you a mix of coffee with cat sh.... and camel sh.... with many other "substances" for "tasty".....

It is usually sold in cheese pie/bread shops as an "offer" take away to attract customers........

Most of coffee shops chain have been bought from "investors" to launder black money usually from heroin/cocaine issuing "receipt" of expenses for locals Authorities.

As an employee you are paid in Greek take away coffee "shops" €13.000 - €14.000 yearly with 8 working hours per day five (5) days per week and 5-10 days off during Christmas or Easter furthermore 30 days regular paid leave yearly and bonus .......

Source:

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/coffee

Source:

https://www.enjoybettercoffee.com/Swiss-Brands-s/558.htm

Is it possible quality & at low price?

 

I was under the impression the Op was asking about beans from a roaster.... 

 

..... not a cup of coffee from a coffee shop.

 

 

But... If you want to avoid coffee because of possible associated 'issue'... go for it, but there's also a lot of other stuff you'll have to avoid on your virtue signalling tour....  

Edited May 6 by richard_smith237

[msbkk]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:33 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Grinders are over rated, i have a 250 baht Lazada one and it works very well, you have to control the grind by how many seconds you use it

I have never seen a cheap grinder able to grind fine expresso. Grind is usually uneven and as I said not fine enough for an espresso machine. And a 250 Baht grinder is probably a blade grinder, the worst of all because of uneven grind.

Edited May 6 by msbkk

[Luuk Chaai]

I buy fresh roasted beans here   ... the Brazil Santos is out of this world

I usually pull  15grams 

and if I want to make a "Long" I brew it as an Americano ,   and then add steamed / frothed Heavy Cream

 

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[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, msbkk said:

On 5/4/2024 at 12:33 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Grinders are over rated, i have a 250 baht Lazada one and it works very well, you have to control the grind by how many seconds you use it

I have never seen a cheap grinder able to grind fine expresso. Grind is usually uneven and as I said not fine enough for an espresso machine. And a 250 Baht grinder is probably a blade grinder, the worst of all because of uneven grind.

 

100% correct..   Grind is one of the most important facets of a decent extraction from any type of brewing method... 

 

As mentioned, if controlling a grinder by 'time' its a blade grinder.... and its not going to be any good... may as well go for 3 in 1.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:57 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sometimes its nice to take a 'clean sharp hit of expresso'... 

...and expresso can be lengthened...

The irony of an "expresso" aficionado!

Edited May 6 by Liverpool Lou

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

On 5/4/2024 at 1:57 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sometimes its nice to take a 'clean sharp hit of expresso'... 

...and expresso can be lengthened...

The irony of an "expresso" aficionado!

 

Indeed...      .....can't go back an edit it either !! 

 

... not only that... its a typo I frequently make....   

[bendejo]

6 hours ago, Paris333 said:

You should be very causius when you are going to drink or to buy bag of coffee because the price of coffee in commodities have been increased since....many years ago....

So when a shop offer you "cheap" price of coffee that means they sell you a mix of coffee with cat sh.... and camel sh.... with many other "substances" for "tasty".....

 

Wise words.  When doing excursions around SEA and South America in the '00 decade I noticed packaged Arabica (well, that's what it said on the labels) sold in supermarkets was just about the same price everywhere.  After the 2008 world economic problems I saw the price rise in unison.  And yes, if the price was lower than it should be it was indicative that there was something off about it.

 

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

100% correct..   Grind is one of the most important facets of a decent extraction from any type of brewing method...

As mentioned, if controlling a grinder by 'time' its a blade grinder.... and its not going to be any good... may as well go for 3 in 1.

 

Indeed, may as well buy pre-ground in packages.  I've learned to tolerate 3-in-1, while spending time in the back of beyond in Indonesia, as a breakfast beverage, not really coffee -- coffee was something to look forward to when returning to the more modern world. 

My gripe is that just about any internet conversation about grinders will go off into a "true espresso grind" argument that derails all else.

At the moment I'm in the US and have a Krup's burr grinder, I love it!  Just one click on the "fineness" control can alter the taste. 

 

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

100% correct..   Grind is one of the most important facets of a decent extraction from any type of brewing method... 

 

As mentioned, if controlling a grinder by 'time' its a blade grinder.... and its not going to be any good... may as well go for 3 in 1.

 

 

That's garbage, buy one, only 250 baht and see what you can do with it

[msbkk]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's garbage, buy one, only 250 baht and see what you can do with it

You most probably never made a real espresso in your life. It is not possible with your grinder for 250 Baht. For coffee press or maybe even filter coffee your grinder might be ok, but not espresso.

[scubascuba3]

56 minutes ago, msbkk said:

You most probably never made a real espresso in your life. It is not possible with your grinder for 250 Baht. For coffee press or maybe even filter coffee your grinder might be ok, but not espresso.

I'm sure yours is average in reality, works for me, i go out to good coffee shops who spend 250k on machines for some reason

[EVENKEEL]

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

100% correct..   Grind is one of the most important facets of a decent extraction from any type of brewing method... 

 

As mentioned, if controlling a grinder by 'time' its a blade grinder.... and its not going to be any good... may as well go for 3 in 1.

 

 

My 900 thb grinder works swell. Good enough for drip coffee.

 

Edited May 7 by EVENKEEL

[msbkk]

32 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm sure yours is average in reality, works for me, i go out to good coffee shops who spend 250k on machines for some reason

I am sure my grinder from Italy for 12,000 Baht with 37 different grind sizes to choose from is excellent for all brewing methods even if I do not need all these 37 options. I also own a cheaper one for around 6,000 Baht which is ok just for coffee press and filter. It cannot be used for an espresso machine. I own a matching espresso machine  from Italy and that's why I know how important a good grinder is. The espresso grind size is used also for americano.

Edited May 7 by msbkk

[Korat Kiwi]

I think there is no doubt that a burr grinder is superior for grinding coffee beans for espresso machines. 

 

However the blade type grinders are sufficient for grinding beans for drip or filter coffee. 

 

Each to there own really.  Some people live on instant coffee and are happy to do so.  Others may prefer percolated coffee. 

 

There is no right or wrong as to what people prefer. 

 

I'll drink a $10 bottle of wine quite happily whereas my brother won't touch anything under $25.  Same same. 

 

Some may say a lack of education is the reason, maybe but it's up to the individual as to what is acceptable. 

 

Tastes also change. 

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

100% correct..   Grind is one of the most important facets of a decent extraction from any type of brewing method... 

 

As mentioned, if controlling a grinder by 'time' its a blade grinder.... and its not going to be any good... may as well go for 3 in 1.

 

That's garbage, buy one, only 250 baht and see what you can do with it

 

Each to their own... I reluctant to use the word 'refined' as that alludes to a degree of snobbery which I don't want to bring into the fray....

 

But... perhaps your 'coffee tastes' are not refined enough to recognise the difference - I've used a 'blade grinder a couple of times'... (one which was made by Bodium of all companies) - it didn't last long at all.

 

 

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My 900 thb grinder works swell. Good enough for drip coffee.

 

Accepted, a blade grinder may be ok for 'drip coffee'....    thats not something I drink - the closes I get is a French Press and I grind finer that conventional grind size for a French Press for a 'tighter press' and a more extraction - but the grind needs to be consistent. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Korat Kiwi said:

I think there is no doubt that a burr grinder is superior for grinding coffee beans for espresso machines. 

 

However the blade type grinders are sufficient for grinding beans for drip or filter coffee. 

 

Each to there own really.  Some people live on instant coffee and are happy to do so.  Others may prefer percolated coffee. 

 

There is no right or wrong as to what people prefer. 

 

I'll drink a $10 bottle of wine quite happily whereas my brother won't touch anything under $25.  Same same. 

 

Some may say a lack of education is the reason, maybe but it's up to the individual as to what is acceptable. 

 

Tastes also change. 

 

Completely agree...    

 

... up until the point someone brings in some 'reverse snobbery' and states their 250 baht grinder is as good as any other grinder (implying burr grinders etc are over-rated etc)... which then highlights both their lack of understanding, lack of knowledge and ultimately lack of ability to tell the difference. 

 

Conversely....  I'm ok with the $10 bottle of wine, but thats an equivalent B700 wine in Thailand... 

... but that really depends what food I'm eating...   Can't find a $10 anything wine in Thailand...   And can't fine a Barolo for under B1000 here either...    but if I'm eating spicy sea food....  Mont Clair fruit wine is good enough for me.... 

 

Each to their own and tastes etc...  But I wouldn't tell someone who's really into their wine that their B4000 baht or $80 whatever is a waste of money....  because of my flawed ability to identify the difference... its the same with a blade grinder.

 

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's garbage, buy one, only 250 baht and see what you can do with it

 

Mix baby food....   make some Thai seafood sauce...     

[n00dle]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:04 PM, Lorry said:

Starbucks espresso (NOT any lattecino) is good. 

 sure it is. 

 

Anyways Aroma 100% Arabica, many of Bluekoffs offerings etc. 

 

it is not hard to find decent affordable coffee here at all, but you need the machine and -- just as important -- the grinder to make it happen.  

Edited May 7 by n00dle

[richard_smith237]

11 hours ago, bendejo said:

ndeed, may as well buy pre-ground in packages.  I've learned to tolerate 3-in-1, while spending time in the back of beyond in Indonesia, as a breakfast beverage, not really coffee

 

When in similar situations (camping or travelling to back and beyond)... I take pre-ground coffee....   (espresso grind)... 

 

And one of these... 

 

 

[Fairynuff]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:39 AM, newbee2022 said:

The best coffee for me comes from Vietnam. Buy it from Lazada, have a coffee machine and that's it. 🙏

I only drink VN at home. I use Trung Nguyen S which I bring back from regular visits. During Covid times or when I run short I also buy on Lazada. Coffee is a very personal thing so I rarely give or follow recommendations. For cappuccino it’s always Amazon.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Each to their own... I reluctant to use the word 'refined' as that alludes to a degree of snobbery which I don't want to bring into the fray....

 

But... perhaps your 'coffee tastes' are not refined enough to recognise the difference - I've used a 'blade grinder a couple of times'... (one which was made by Bodium of all companies) - it didn't last long at all.

 

 

 

Accepted, a blade grinder may be ok for 'drip coffee'....    thats not something I drink - the closes I get is a French Press and I grind finer that conventional grind size for a French Press for a 'tighter press' and a more extraction - but the grind needs to be consistent. 

 

 

 

Probably just snobbery mostly. I go to many shops that have very expensive equipment but the coffee is average at best, it's mostly in your head

[newbee2022]

24 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I only drink VN at home. I use Trung Nguyen S which I bring back from regular visits. During Covid times or when I run short I also buy on Lazada. Coffee is a very personal thing so I rarely give or follow recommendations. For cappuccino it’s always Amazon.

Exactly that brand I buy regularly from Lazada. The best coffee by far.👍