Thai EV Market Remains Unfazed by European Sales Downturn

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 more “ignorance signaling” 

 

Doesn’t own an EV but claims to be an expert on the second hand EV market in Thailand.

 

Doesn’t bother to post any evidence to backup his claims 

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-07/used-porsche-evs-are-getting-cheaper-as-residual-values-tumble

Now you can show me the 2nd hand EV market prices in Thailand.

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Typical, doesn’t own an EV and doesn’t know anything about them.

“Ignorance signaling” 

 

Well for a start I own an EV bike and a Hybrid Camry so let's put that to bed.  

 

My sister in law has a full EV car. She likes to do trips up to and around Chiang Mai, Pai, Mae Hong son etc. Keeps moaning about having to plan her routes around the charging stations and then having to wait when she gets there. She was joking she's never drunk so much Inthanin coffee as she does waiting around at these stations. We suggested she buy shares in them. 

 

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I own a D segment Saloon/Sedan EV and it’s cheaper than any ice car in the segment.

 

Depends on the market. In the UK (where I was referring to the green strip virtue signalling) they are not cheaper. 

 

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Owned it for 6 months and apart from some short test charges in the first week it has been charged at home from solar. So haven’t had to go out of my way to fill up.

 

A very specific circumstance. Most people do not have solar panels and many do not even have somewhere to install a normal charger. My tractor is great for my farm, I wouldn't recommend my colleagues buy one for the Bangkok commute. Different circumstances, different use. 

 

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

It comes with 8 years of free servicing and very cheap road tax. All very inexpensive and convenient.
 

 

Insurance and depreciation are far more significant expenses than servicing and road tax. 20% harder on tyres etc.  

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Well for a start I own an EV bike and a Hybrid Camry so let's put that to bed.  

 

My sister in law has a full EV car. She likes to do trips up to and around Chiang Mai, Pai, Mae Hong son etc. Keeps moaning about having to plan her routes around the charging stations and then having to wait when she gets there. She was joking she's never drunk so much Inthanin coffee as she does waiting around at these stations. We suggested she buy shares in them. 

 

 

Depends on the market. In the UK (where I was referring to the green strip virtue signalling) they are not cheaper. 

 

 

A very specific circumstance. Most people do not have solar panels and many do not even have somewhere to install a normal charger. My tractor is great for my farm, I wouldn't recommend my colleagues buy one for the Bangkok commute. Different circumstances, different use. 

 

 

Insurance and depreciation are far more significant expenses than servicing and road tax. 20% harder on tyres etc.  

Please be careful where you charge your EV bike. We had an EV scooter but when I started showing my wife lithium ion batteries exploding she sold it. I didn't want her to buy it in the first place. I'm an RC helicopter pilot and I know the dangers of these batteries. I have a special bag to charge them in.

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[transam]

21 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 more “ignorance signaling” 

 

Doesn’t own an EV but claims to be an expert on the second hand EV market in Thailand.

 

Doesn’t bother to post any evidence to backup his claims 

 

 

I keep asking, how much is the insurance on an EV, now if you think you are the expert here, what do you pay for your HP rating....?  🙄

[dinsdale]

34 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You want some real Chinese EV action 🎬?

 

What really disturbs me about these videos is people just standing around them. The gases given off are very dangerous, they explode and basically they don't go out until specialist equipment is used or they've burned themselves out and even then when it looks like it's finished they can reignite. Plenty of available documenatation on this so before any fanboys boys say show us the evidence just look it up. Run away and run away upwind.

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[Bandersnatch]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Hybrid Camry

 

1 kWh battery does not an EV make.

 

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

My sister in law has a full EV car. She likes to do trips up to and around Chiang Mai, Pai, Mae Hong son etc. Keeps moaning about having to plan her routes around the charging stations and then having to wait when she gets there

 

No details provided about what car

 

I have a 600km range which is long enough for most trip.  I own an MG and a BYD that have dealerships in practically every province. You can book ahead. I can add 350km of range in 20 minutes.

 

22 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Depends on the market. In the UK

 

Here in Thailand The seal is cheaper than the Camry.

 

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Most people do not have solar panels and many do not even have somewhere to install a normal charger

 

Agreed most people don’t solar but many EV owners here in Thailand are getting them as they are so cheap now.

TOU overnight electricity is half price.

 

Most people in Thailand live in detached houses so can install a wall charger which is free with most EVs here including installation.

 

31 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Insurance and depreciation are far more significant expenses than servicing and road tax. 20% harder on tyres etc

 

My MG’s insurance has been comparable to my previous ICE cars will be posting my first BYDs insurance quote in six months on the EVs in Thailand Discussion.

 

With 8 years warranty and free servicing depreciation is not really a consideration after that.

[vinny41]

EVs in China are in serious crisis, price wars rage, cars aren't selling, small manufacturers may not survive.

Some global automakers have also had to restructure their businesses or close down operations. In October, Mitsubishi Motors announced it would end production of its vehicles at its joint venture in China, and Honda (HMC), Hyundai and Ford have also laid off workers and sold factories to cut costs. According to reports filed with the stock exchange and reports from state media.

By 2030, China may have fewer than five major EV manufacturers, Richard Yu, CEO of Huawei's consumer business, predicted in June 2023.

https://techsauce.co/tech-and-biz/china-ev-crisis-to-eliminate-car-manufacture?

[Bandersnatch]

41 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Now you can show me the 2nd hand EV market prices in Thailand.

 

Thought you were an expert on used EVs in Thailand!

 

 

 

 

 

[dinsdale]

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Thought you were an expert on used EVs in Thailand!

 

 

 

 

 

How about the Chinese ones???????? As for paying 2-4 mil for a used Tesla you'd have to be crazy. 4 mil can get you a pretty good house built upcountry.Of course if it's status and virtue signalling then I understand.

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[Bandersnatch]

32 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

How about the Chinese ones???????? As for paying 2-4 mil for a used Tesla you'd have to be crazy. 4 mil can get you a pretty good house built upcountry.Of course if it's status and virtue signalling then I understand.

 

I am done doing your research for you. 

 

You said:

“As for resale values say goodbye to your Baht” 

 

Your claim to be an expert on used EVs in Thailand has turned out to be

 

”ignorance signalling” again

[JBChiangRai]

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EVs in China are in serious crisis, price wars rage, cars aren't selling, small manufacturers may not survive.

Some global automakers have also had to restructure their businesses or close down operations. In October, Mitsubishi Motors announced it would end production of its vehicles at its joint venture in China, and Honda (HMC), Hyundai and Ford have also laid off workers and sold factories to cut costs. According to reports filed with the stock exchange and reports from state media.

By 2030, China may have fewer than five major EV manufacturers, Richard Yu, CEO of Huawei's consumer business, predicted in June 2023.

https://techsauce.co/tech-and-biz/china-ev-crisis-to-eliminate-car-manufacture?

 

It's normal in any new market, as it matures it shakes the tree and the weaker ones fall out.

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I am done doing your research for you. 

 

You said:

“As for resale values say goodbye to your Baht” 

 

Your claim to be an expert on used EVs in Thailand has turned out to be

 

”ignorance signalling” again

You'll find out for yourself. How much is the battery pack replacement? Might need to sell before then.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You'll find out for yourself. How much is the battery pack replacement? Might need to sell before then.

 

You really should shut up, your ignorance is showing.  Try researching battery pack longevity.

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's normal in any new market, as it matures it shakes the tree and the weaker ones fall out.

Nup. The CCP has heavily subsidised production in country to produce EV's as cheap as possible and it's simply flooding the internatinal market with a cheap product.

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Nup. The CCP has heavily subsidised production in country to produce EV's as cheap as possible and it's simply flooding the internatinal market with a cheap product.

Correct, they are inundating the world 🌎 with EVs.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Correct, they are inundating the world 🌎 with EVs.

 

Which is a good thing

[dinsdale]

High depreciation of EVs raises loan concerns says National Credit Bureau

The National Credit Bureau (NCB) raised concerns about the high depreciation rates of electric vehicles (EVs) and the associated loan risks. As the popularity of EVs, particularly Chinese brands, continues to rise, so does the volume of loans attributed to their purchase. However, EVs depreciate faster than traditional internal combustion engine (ICE) cars, which has heightened the risk for auto loan providers.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/high-depreciation-of-evs-raises-loan-concerns-says-national-credit-bureau

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Which is a good thing

Very good for the CCP that's for sure.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

High depreciation of EVs raises loan concerns says National Credit Bureau

The National Credit Bureau (NCB) raised concerns about the high depreciation rates of electric vehicles (EVs) and the associated loan risks. As the popularity of EVs, particularly Chinese brands, continues to rise, so does the volume of loans attributed to their purchase. However, EVs depreciate faster than traditional internal combustion engine (ICE) cars, which has heightened the risk for auto loan providers.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/high-depreciation-of-evs-raises-loan-concerns-says-national-credit-bureau

 

Sorry, but he is wrong.  There is absolutely no evidence of that in Thailand.

 

Used prices are holding up comparatively to ICE.  I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1, it's not our experience whatsoever.

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Sorry, but he is wrong.  There is absolutely no evidence of that in Thailand.

 

Used prices are holding up comparatively to ICE.  I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1, it's not our experience whatsoever.

I suggest you contact NCB Chief Executive Surapol Opasatien who also said “In the case of an accident involving an EV battery, the car’s value would drop significantly. The value of used EVs, particularly those that are five years old or older, deteriorates more quickly than ICEs.” and explain to him why he is wrong and you are right.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/high-depreciation-of-evs-raises-loan-concerns-says-national-credit-bureau

Edited May 10 by dinsdale

[ExpatOilWorker]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Which is a good thing

We don't know that yet. China 🇨🇳 has a long history of faulty and dangerous products,  from lead paint in children's toy, flammable teddy 🧸 bears, toxic toothpaste,  contaminated food, etc.

It will be very interesting to see how Chinese EVs do under strict European 🇪🇺 consumer protection laws. Time will tell.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

I suggest you contact NCB Chief Executive Surapol Opasatien who also said “In the case of an accident involving an EV battery, the car’s value would drop significantly. The value of used EVs, particularly those that are five years old or older, deteriorates more quickly than ICEs.” and explain to him why he is wrong and you are right.

 

He is welcome to present his evidence.

 

It's far too early to start saying anything about values at 5 years old.  I think the only manufacturer backed EV was the Leaf?  correct me if I am wrong.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Wait till the electric prices hike to recharge the cars....

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Wait till the electric prices hike to recharge the cars....

 

Well it's currently 5 times cheaper to charge at home than fill with petrol/diesel, so I think it's going to be some time before we see a 600% electric price hike.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 5/7/2024 at 8:12 PM, tomazbodner said:

Aha...https://thethaiger.com/news/national/week-old-electric-car-worth-over-a-million-baht-unexpectedly-catches-fire-at-udon-thani-mall-charging-point

 

That was just to set record straight. Personally, I like BYD Seal... a lot.

 

That was not actually a fire - if you read the report it says there was smoke (but no fire) coming from under the hood. Later reports established that the smoke (again, not fire) came from a wiring problem with the vehicle's 12V lead-acid battery.

 

So the incident, which caused virtually no damage to the vehicle, had nothing to do with it being an EV.

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

He is welcome to present his evidence.

 

It's far too early to start saying anything about values at 5 years old.  I think the only manufacturer backed EV was the Leaf?  correct me if I am wrong.

I'm assuming you didn't even bother to read the article even if you did as I say you can contact him and ask for the source of the information which sadly is missing from the Thaiger article. BP ran the same article (which I can't link) an which is where Thaiger lifted the article from as did carlist.my also taken from BP. You know have 4 organisations to contact to say the information is wrong.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

I'm assuming you didn't even bother to read the article even if you did as I say you can contact him and ask for the source of the information which sadly is missing from the Thaiger article. BP ran the same article (which I can't link) an which is where Thaiger lifted the article from as did carlist.my also taken from BP. You know have 4 organisations to contact to say the information is wrong.

 

Nonsense. 

 

If someone is going to make a statement like that, then they have to show their data, where is it?

 

It has to be nonsense because with the exception of the famously faulty Nissan Leaf, there are no other EV's at 5 years old other than grey imports, and the data say the grey imports held their values very well.

[dinsdale]

8 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

That was not actually a fire - if you read the report it says there was smoke (but no fire) coming from under the hood. Later reports established that the smoke (again, not fire) came from a wiring problem with the vehicle's 12V lead-acid battery.

 

So the incident, which caused virtually no damage to the vehicle, had nothing to do with it being an EV.

I guess the point is it was a brand new BYD with an obvious quality fault. As for damage who knows how bad it could've been if not caught in time. It was being charged at the time. BRAND NEW CAR!!!

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

EVs in China are in serious crisis, price wars rage, cars aren't selling, small manufacturers may not survive.

Some global automakers have also had to restructure their businesses or close down operations. In October, Mitsubishi Motors announced it would end production of its vehicles at its joint venture in China, and Honda (HMC), Hyundai and Ford have also laid off workers and sold factories to cut costs. According to reports filed with the stock exchange and reports from state media.

By 2030, China may have fewer than five major EV manufacturers, Richard Yu, CEO of Huawei's consumer business, predicted in June 2023.

https://techsauce.co/tech-and-biz/china-ev-crisis-to-eliminate-car-manufacture?

Let me correct your post, if I may.

 

Some EV manufacturers in China are in serious crisis and may not survive. Try selling khao neaw moo ping next to a popular moogata restaurant and see how much you can sell.

 

The global manufacturers shutting up shop in China are the legacy ICEV manufacturers. The demand for ICEVs in China are falling like a rock. As these legacy automakers are incapable of manufacturing a decent quality EV, their business case is drying up.

[Gweiloman]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I guess the point is it was a brand new BYD with an obvious quality fault. As for damage who knows how bad it could've been if not caught in time. It was being charged at the time. BRAND NEW CAR!!!

You are boring. No one’s telling you to like or buy EVs. You don’t like China either. Don’t buy any Chinese made products then. No one is going to lose sleep over that.