US Report Suggests Israel May Have Violated International Law with American Weapons in Gaza

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You didn't read my post.

I suggested a temporary evacuation until the war is over.

Egypt said no.

I never suggested permanent moves.

Obviously neither Egypt or the Gazans want that.

I also think Hamas doesn't want to lose its human shields.

Your logic is poisoned by extreme bias.

You did not read my post properly either.

Where will 2 million plus refugees live in Egypt? Egypt does not have the facilities to cope with an extra 2 million plus people.

 

Thank you to vinny41 who pointed out (I had forgotten) that if the Palestinians leave Gaza they will NOT be allowed to return by the Israelis. Why SHOULD the Palestinians be forced to leave their homes and land so that Israel can steal their whole country?

 

It would be better for the peace talks if Israel and the IDF left Gaza completely and went back to their own country tp live, taking ALL their illegal settlers with them.

 

 

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d#:

Egypt has suggested that Israel house Palestinians in its Negev Desert, which neighbors the Gaza Strip, until it ends its military operations.

 

 

 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Simple question for you.

 

IF the attacks of October 7 had not happened, would Israel have retaliated? Would thousands of Gazans be dead? That may help you answer the question. 

 

And please, enough of the genocide nonsense.  Civilians die in war. Tragic, but inevitable.  Do you think Israel would continue to bomb Gaza if Hamas surrendered, and returned all the hostages? If yes, then it is a genocide. If no, then it is a war. That may help you answer the question.

If there is no case of genocide to answer you would think Israel would welcome arrests warrants from the

 International Criminal Court (ICC)  as they would be able to prove to the World Courts that there is no case of genocide 

[Hanaguma]

49 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Nothing to do with size Israel has form for refusing to let people return

After fighting stopped in the 1948 war, Israel refused to allow refugees to return to their homes. Since then, Israel has rejected Palestinian demands for a return of refugees as part of a peace deal, arguing that it would threaten the country’s Jewish majority.

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d#

And of course, they are right.  The refugees can't go back to Israel. That ship has sailed. It will never happen.  It rarely happens in any other case in the world of refugees being displaced due to losing a war, or other conflict.  

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

Did occur to you that Egypt might not want 2 million plus extra people? Where would they live especially, as they already had land and homes in Gaza. Who take over the homes, land, infrastructure etc in Gaza? Egypt or another country, such as Israel who are already doing so? Gaza does NOT belong to Israel It belongs to the Palestinians, and most of them want to keep it.

IMO the main reason Egypt would not accept them is that they knew israel would never allow them back again.

[The Fugitive]

11 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

And of course, they are right.  The refugees can't go back to Israel. That ship has sailed. It will never happen.  It rarely happens in any other case in the world of refugees being displaced due to losing a war, or other conflict.  

Special circumstances apply. The Arab-Israeli war of 1948 was triggered by United Nations and United Kingdom giving majority Arab occupied land away for exclusive jewish occupation. They knew what would happen.

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Special circumstances apply. The Arab-Israeli war of 1948 was triggered by United Nations and United Kingdom giving majority Arab occupied land away for exclusive jewish occupation. They knew what would happen.

Nope. THe war was triggered by 6 Arab nations invading Israel and trying to murder every Jew they could find. Is it any wonder that the Israelis were reluctant to allow anyone back? It turn out they were right. Nobody wants the Palestinians in their country.

[The Fugitive]

53 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Nope. THe war was triggered by 6 Arab nations invading Israel and trying to murder every Jew they could find. Is it any wonder that the Israelis were reluctant to allow anyone back? It turn out they were right. Nobody wants the Palestinians in their country.

You went from talking about six Arab nations to Palestinians. There are 22 Arab countries, all contiguous apart from Somalia. There just isn't a worst place to establish a jewish state. Arabs were quite correct to refuse to give part of their land to form a jewish country. They knew it wouldn't end there and that the jews would keep going until they had stolen (or annexed as they term it) their portion too.

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, The Fugitive said:

You went from talking about six Arab nations to Palestinians. There are 22 Arab countries, all contiguous apart from Somalia. There just isn't a worst place to establish a jewish state. Arabs were quite correct to refuse to give part of their land to form a jewish country. They knew it wouldn't end there and that the jews would keep going until they had stolen (or annexed as they term it) their portion too.

So, where would you suggest?  The 22 Arab countries total more than 500 times the area of Israel. Seems rather petty of them that they cannot be generous enough to donate 0.2% of the land to their neighbors. Especially considering that their neighbors have lived there for more than 2000 years.  That seems like a good place to establish a Jewish state- where Jews have lived. Don't you think? 

 

Anyway, they tried several times to commit genocide on Israel, and failed.  Perhaps it is time to look for peace instead of war? 

[The Fugitive]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So, where would you suggest?  The 22 Arab countries total more than 500 times the area of Israel. Seems rather petty of them that they cannot be generous enough to donate 0.2% of the land to their neighbors. Especially considering that their neighbors have lived there for more than 2000 years.  That seems like a good place to establish a Jewish state- where Jews have lived. Don't you think? 

 

Anyway, they tried several times to commit genocide on Israel, and failed.  Perhaps it is time to look for peace instead of war? 

Both are hard-liners. That's the problem. Arabs want jews to go away or they will kill them. Israeli's like to boast; 'We're here and there's nothing anybody can do about it'. Until both attitudes can be changed I fear the fighting will never end.

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Both are hard-liners. That's the problem. Arabs want jews to go away or they will kill them. Israeli's like to boast; 'We're here and there's nothing anybody can do about it'. Until both attitudes can be changed I fear the fighting will never end.

True. But you didn't really answer, where should the Jews have gone instead of Israel in 1947? I guess the Arabs will just have to be smacked around again and again until they accept reality.  

[The Fugitive]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

True. But you didn't really answer, where should the Jews have gone instead of Israel in 1947? I guess the Arabs will just have to be smacked around again and again until they accept reality.

I don't believe anyone had to go anywhere else. True, there were tensions between Arabs and jews prior to 1917 but the UN plans exacerbated them. Had Palestine gone directly from Ottoman colonial rule to Arab majority rule there would have been no Nakba hence no jews expelled from other Arab countries thus losing their homes and jobs in retaliation. 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

I don't believe anyone had to go anywhere else. True, there were tensions between Arabs and jews prior to 1917 but the UN plans exacerbated them. Had Palestine gone directly from Ottoman colonial rule to Arab majority rule there would have been no Nakba hence no jews expelled from other Arab countries thus losing their homes and jobs in retaliation. 

...so the concentration camp survivors (most from eastern Europe) should just have gone back to Poland, USSR, etc?  Those places were rather anti-semitic also, they wouldn't have lasted a month.  Plus the Arabs had backed the Nazis in the war.

 

There would have been no Nakba if the Arab League had not invaded Israel in 1948.

[mogandave]

Biden going for Hamas Employee of the Year

[The Fugitive]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...so the concentration camp survivors (most from eastern Europe) should just have gone back to Poland, USSR, etc?  Those places were rather anti-semitic also, they wouldn't have lasted a month.  Plus the Arabs had backed the Nazis in the war.

 

There would have been no Nakba if the Arab League had not invaded Israel in 1948.

It's all pie in the sky now of course. However, after WW2 things would've moved on.  I believe the Arabs would have been somewhat compassionate. Jews would be working for them in their country. UN and UK publically plotting against them was the worst possible thing that could have been done. As regards the Nakba, the deal was 50/50 of what remained of the British Mandate. Arabs refused. In effect, half of their land was stolen from them and handed to the jews for their exclusive use. Can't blame them for objecting to that.

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

It's all pie in the sky now of course. However, after WW2 things would've moved on.  I believe the Arabs would have been somewhat compassionate. Jews would be working for them in their country. UN and UK publically plotting against them was the worst possible thing that could have been done. As regards the Nakba, the deal was 50/50 of what remained of the British Mandate. Arabs refused. In effect, half of their land was stolen from them and handed to the jews for their exclusive use. Can't blame them for objecting to that.

Given the circumstances at the time, the result was the best that could be expected. The ALlies were horrified (and embarrassed) by what they found in the camps, and felt huge guilt. OTOH, the Arabs were Nazi sympathizers. There were dozens of Muslim countries already, why not make just one Jewish one? A small one, close to the ancestral homeland of the Jews. 

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So, where would you suggest?  The 22 Arab countries total more than 500 times the area of Israel. Seems rather petty of them that they cannot be generous enough to donate 0.2% of the land to their neighbors. Especially considering that their neighbors have lived there for more than 2000 years.  That seems like a good place to establish a Jewish state- where Jews have lived. Don't you think? 

Seems like you're showing the situation in a way that portrays Israel as a victim rather than looking at the complexities of the conflict. yes, Jews have historical ties to the region, it's also important to recognize the long-standing presence of Palestinians in the area. The issue isn't about land size or historical claims; it's about the rights the people.

"persecution complex" suggests an exaggerated belief that one is being persecuted when there isn't sufficient evidence to support such a claim.

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Seems like you're showing the situation in a way that portrays Israel as a victim rather than looking at the complexities of the conflict. yes, Jews have historical ties to the region, it's also important to recognize the long-standing presence of Palestinians in the area. The issue isn't about land size or historical claims; it's about the rights the people.

"persecution complex" suggests an exaggerated belief that one is being persecuted when there isn't sufficient evidence to support such a claim.

"Isn't sufficient evidence" that Jews were persecuted?!?  Open a fvcking history book, pal!

 

Could have been done better? Sure, hindsight is 20/20. But at the moment, one side is clinging to the belief that they can turn back the clock and it just ain't happening.  Israel will stay, whatever the Arabs think.

[Neeranam]

21 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

"Isn't sufficient evidence" that Jews were persecuted?!?  Open a fvcking history book, pal!

 

Could have been done better? Sure, hindsight is 20/20. But at the moment, one side is clinging to the belief that they can turn back the clock and it just ain't happening.  Israel will stay, whatever the Arabs think.

I am not talking about 100 years ago, but NOW, which you also were saying the Arab countries should give Israel more land. 

Are you saying there is no such thing as 'persecution complex'? Open a psychology book, bud! 

[Hanaguma]

35 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am not talking about 100 years ago, but NOW, which you also were saying the Arab countries should give Israel more land. 

Are you saying there is no such thing as 'persecution complex'? Open a psychology book, bud! 

It isn't a complex if it is justified.  And being subject to continuing wars of genocide might just qualify in this case.  When your neighbors have pledged to wipe you out.... 

 

And actually, I think the Arab countries should give the Palestinians some land.  

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It isn't a complex if it is justified.  And being subject to continuing wars of genocide might just qualify in this case.  When your neighbors have pledged to wipe you out.... 

 

American Jewish culture has cultivated an unwarranted/irrational sense of persecution stemming from historical oppression, which is regularly recounted during annual observances such as Passover, Purim, Yom Ha'Shoah, and similar occasions. Note, I am observing this as a unbiased outsider. 

[Trippy]

Why can't people who hate Jews just admit it? At least then we will have honesty.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

American Jewish culture has cultivated an unwarranted/irrational sense of persecution stemming from historical oppression, which is regularly recounted during annual observances such as Passover, Purim, Yom Ha'Shoah, and similar occasions. Note, I am observing this as a unbiased outsider. 

You're unbiased like  I'm the Emperor of Freedonia.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Trippy said:

Why can't people who hate Jews just admit it? At least then we will have honesty.

It's usually super easy to tell even if they don’t.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

So, where would you suggest?  The 22 Arab countries total more than 500 times the area of Israel. Seems rather petty of them that they cannot be generous enough to donate 0.2% of the land to their neighbors. Especially considering that their neighbors have lived there for more than 2000 years.  That seems like a good place to establish a Jewish state- where Jews have lived. Don't you think? 

 

Anyway, they tried several times to commit genocide on Israel, and failed.  Perhaps it is time to look for peace instead of war? 

You continue to ignore the fact that Palestinians live on their own land, and expect them to move to live as refugees in a foreign land. Why should they? Israel should get the <deleted> out of the West Bank and Gaza and let them have their own state. Israel has zero right to that land.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

It's all pie in the sky now of course. However, after WW2 things would've moved on.  I believe the Arabs would have been somewhat compassionate. Jews would be working for them in their country. UN and UK publically plotting against them was the worst possible thing that could have been done. As regards the Nakba, the deal was 50/50 of what remained of the British Mandate. Arabs refused. In effect, half of their land was stolen from them and handed to the jews for their exclusive use. Can't blame them for objecting to that.

Correct. Before the land was given to them by old white men half the planet away, Arabs and Jews lived together in Palestine. Zionists were the ones that stirred up the hatred.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Plus the Arabs had backed the Nazis in the war.

I see you bring that up as though it's an excuse to steal Arab land. The Americans didn't take German land after WW2, did they?

 

Also you ignore the reasons they did so, which was because the British and French were a lying pack of backstabbers that told them that in exchange for aiding Britain defeat the Turks in WW1 they would get independence, which was an outright lie- see the Balfour Declaration. They thought that if the British were defeated they might get their land and independence.