Poll: Do you feel sympathetic to Putin? Did he really have no choice?

[JoseThailand]

3 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Do you know that the US had a plan to dismember Belgium after the Liberation?

And make it disappear as a nation...

 

Do you know what Puting wants to do to after the so called "liberation of Urkaine"?

Exactly - dismember it and make it disappear as a nation...

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 5/16/2024 at 3:04 PM, BobBKK said:

 I don't believe that is true - a deal was signed, and Boris destroyed it. 

Got any link to a reliable source that supports that claim? Specifically the part about a peace deal having been signed.

Edited May 26 by GroveHillWanderer

[Gweiloman]

19 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

He never lived in Russia, what does he know about Russia and Putin? He is a European retiree getting a good pension from his government, maybe 2000 EUR per month or so, while pensions in Russia are just 200 EUR per month. He has a privilege to openly express his political views and nobody will throw him in jail for that. He should be grateful for what he has in his country, because Russian people can only dream of having it!

Oh dear. Those poor Russian people.

 

[BobBKK]

20 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Got any link to a reliable source that supports that claim? Specifically the part about a peace deal having been signed.

 

David Arahamiya, leader of Ukraine's ruling party, confirmed on November 24th, 2023, that Russia was ready to end the war in exchange for neutrality. This was rejected, in part, because Johnson pressured Kiev to fight on. Arahamiya was head of the Ukraine delegation. The deal was signed by those present but not by Putin or Zelensky - I should have clarified that.

[BobBKK]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:24 AM, jayceenik said:

I support Putin 100%.

I'm just a plain Belgan retiree.

If there is a Kremlin supported group of posters on this forum please message me and accept me in your group because I feel rather lonely as a Russophile in this mostly Russophobe forum.

 

 

I would not say I support Putin 100%, but I love Russia, having worked there and visited many times. You are correct that this forum has a distinct anti-Russian bias, and some posters seem to be able to insult others if they disagree with impunity - this thread, amongst others, is full of ad hominem.  

[JoseThailand]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

I love Russia

 

I love Russia too but I hate Puting because of what he did to Russia

[BobBKK]

31 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

I love Russia too but I hate Puting because of what he did to Russia

 

He took them out of the poverty and chaos that Yeltsin created after the Soviet system failed. You may not like me saying this, but Putin has the support of all the Russians I know, and I am firmly convinced the vast majority support him. Is he an angel? Of course not - politics is a dirty business. Many US Presidents have caused millions of deaths - Vietnam , Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.

We would be wise not to say, "he's the bad guy; we are the good guys." Peace can only and will only come through negotiations - and of course, that will eventually happen after thousands of more deaths - this is the greatest shame of all.  

[JoseThailand]

35 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

He took them out of the poverty and chaos

 

You call 200 EUR pensions "took them out of the poverty"? Also, he raised the retirement age from 60 to 65, even though the average life expectancy for males is just 65, meaning that the average Russian male won't get any pension at all!

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

You call 200 EUR pensions "took them out of the poverty"? Also, he raised the retirement age from 60 to 65, even though the average life expectancy for males is just 65, meaning that the average Russian male won't get any pension at all!

You purposely do not mention female retirement stays at 60, and the 65 for males is gradual and less than the USA at 66/67 and the UK at 66.

[JoseThailand]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

You purposely do not mention female retirement stays at 60, and the 65 for males is gradual and less than the USA at 66/67 and the UK at 66.

 

Half of the Russian population (males) won't get any pension as they don't live long enough, and the other half (females) who will, will only get a meager 200 EUR per month. That's a great achievement for 24 years in power! Thank you Puting

 

 

Edited May 27 by JoseThailand

[RayC]

On 5/26/2024 at 3:28 AM, jayceenik said:

Do you know that the US had a plan to dismember Belgium after the Liberation?

And make it disappear as a nation...

One part to Holland, one part to France, and one part to Germany. 

But a few years later, when Wallonia did want to join France (Walloons, French, De Gaulle had all marked their accord) this project was nixed by the US who didn't want France to be augmented with prosperous Wallonia and its rich coal mines and steel mills.

 BTW-many sanctions directed at Russia have been economically very detrimental to Belgium. Latest one being directed at the word class Antwerp diamond market. No more Russian diamonds for Antwerp, not even those pre-cut in India.

I want peace in Europe, not a US-Russia proxy war that would serve only the geostrategic interests of the US.

Belgium is host to 22 US nuclear missiles and will be one of the top retaliatory targets for Russia if it's attacked by NATO like so many now in Europe want (UK, Poland, France, the Baltic states, ...).

 

 

 

I don't understand what point you are trying to make? Yes, sanctions can also adversely effect the countries applying the sanctions. That doesn't mean that it is wrong to impose them.

 

It is off-topic but I am intrigued by your claim that the US wanted to dismantle Belgium post-WW2. I am a Brit but I lived in Belgium for many years. I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I consider myself to be reasonably well-informed about Belgium's history and have never heard of this plan until now. Can you supply a link with details about It please.

[BobBKK]

10 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

Half of the Russian population (males) won't get any pension as they don't live long enough, and the other half (females) who will, will only get a meager 200 EUR per month. That's a great achievement for 24 years in power! Thank you Puting

 

 

It's 220EUR but a false equivalency 

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

David Arahamiya, leader of Ukraine's ruling party, confirmed on November 24th, 2023, that Russia was ready to end the war in exchange for neutrality. This was rejected, in part, because Johnson pressured Kiev to fight on. Arahamiya was head of the Ukraine delegation. The deal was signed by those present but not by Putin or Zelensky - I should have clarified that.

Again - got a link to a reliable source? I have read several articles about this, none of them mentioned a deal being signed. In fact, they say no deal was actually agreed, and that the talks broke down for a combination of reasons.

 

Here's just one example. 

 

Did Boris Johnson really sabotage peace talks between Russia and Ukraine? The reality is more complicated

 

Quote

As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war.

 

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 

He took them out of the poverty and chaos that Yeltsin created after the Soviet system failed. You may not like me saying this, but Putin has the support of all the Russians I know, and I am firmly convinced the vast majority support him. Is he an angel? Of course not - politics is a dirty business. Many US Presidents have caused millions of deaths - Vietnam , Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.

We would be wise not to say, "he's the bad guy; we are the good guys." Peace can only and will only come through negotiations - and of course, that will eventually happen after thousands of more deaths - this is the greatest shame of all.  

Putin could end the war tomorrow, with a single command.

[jayceenik]

15 hours ago, RayC said:

 

I don't understand what point you are trying to make? Yes, sanctions can also adversely effect the countries applying the sanctions. That doesn't mean that it is wrong to impose them.

 

It is off-topic but I am intrigued by your claim that the US wanted to dismantle Belgium post-WW2. I am a Brit but I lived in Belgium for many years. I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I consider myself to be reasonably well-informed about Belgium's history and have never heard of this plan until now. Can you supply a link with details about It please.

Sorry, no links I can find right now. This is more of the stuff I found about in WWII books and that nobody wants to remember.

As for France, the plan was for Alsace-Lorraine to revert to Germany and most parts on the East side of the Rhone to go to Italy.

Note that the US-UK had planned early on for France to be a military protectorate run by US and British generals. A new currency had already been printed - the AMGOT Franc. Fortunately for France De Gaulle put a quick end to these imperialistic dreams

What I want to say is that all these accusations about Putin being an new Empire builder came from people who are themselves citizens of hegemonist countries.

There are maps you can find on the Internet about the US planned dismemberment of the present Federation of Russia into a multitude of mini states that, it is hoped by the US will welcome Black Rock and associates. Just like Zelensky is now.

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Putin could end the war tomorrow, with a single command.

Yes he can. So too can Zelensky. Sorry, I mean his masters. Zelensky’s just a puppet clown comedian.

 

Sadlt, not gonna happen tomorrow though. Russia’s winning, no point to call a halt. The west cannot admit they are losing and it’s only Ukrainians that are dying so that’s acceptable to them. And it’s good for business too.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Yes he can. So too can Zelensky. Sorry, I mean his masters. Zelensky’s just a puppet clown comedian.

 

Sadlt, not gonna happen tomorrow though. Russia’s winning, no point to call a halt. The west cannot admit they are losing and it’s only Ukrainians that are dying so that’s acceptable to them. And it’s good for business too.

But that's from your communist perspective...........🤔

[ChicagoExpat]

On 5/13/2024 at 4:57 AM, Robert Paulson said:

Americans are the most highly propagandized population in the world. The difference between an American and a Russian or Chinese person is the Russian or Chinese know they are being propagandized. 

You have it exactly backwards.  Congratulations!

[Gweiloman]

14 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Again - got a link to a reliable source? I have read several articles about this, none of them mentioned a deal being signed. In fact, they say no deal was actually agreed, and that the talks broke down for a combination of reasons.

 

Here's just one example. 

 

Did Boris Johnson really sabotage peace talks between Russia and Ukraine? The reality is more complicated

 

 

There are plenty of links. Unfortunately, most of them can’t be provided on this forum, for one reason or another so you are not going to be able to read such links here.

 

If I’m not mistaken, Putin himself said that a deal was agreed. He even held up a copy of the draft agreement in a summit with the African countries. Of course, some posters on here will just say that he’s lying. With such a mindset, they will never believe anything that doesn’t tie in with their narrative and all they can do is, like @BobBKK said, raise ad hominem attacks.

[Wobblybob]

5 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Yes he can. So too can Zelensky. Sorry, I mean his masters. Zelensky’s just a puppet clown comedian.

 

Sadlt, not gonna happen tomorrow though. Russia’s winning, no point to call a halt. The west cannot admit they are losing and it’s only Ukrainians that are dying so that’s acceptable to them. And it’s good for business too.

Don't talk such nonsense, how can Zelensky call an halt to this illegal war, if Zelensky stops resisting Putins band of thugs all of Ukraine will fall to this evil dictator. All Putin has too do is to go back to the 2014 boundaries and pay for all the carnage this monster has caused and there will be peace. Ukraine can then join NATO and live in the knowledge that his country is safe from these psychopathic barbarians!

[Gweiloman]

21 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I would not say I support Putin 100%, but I love Russia, having worked there and visited many times. You are correct that this forum has a distinct anti-Russian bias, and some posters seem to be able to insult others if they disagree with impunity - this thread, amongst others, is full of ad hominem.  

Very well said. I too have visited Russia several times on business. An ex gf was a lovely young masters graduate in political science from St. Petersburg University.

 

It’s a country that’s rich in history and culture. The people are extremely welcoming if you treat them with respect and they gladly welcome you into their homes or to join them at their tables in restaurants. What struck me also is how safe the streets of Moscow and St. P are, even at night. I definitely felt safer there than in London, Paris or Rome. No need to even talk about the streets of NY or Chicago. Well documented as to how unsafe those are.

[Gweiloman]

9 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Don't talk such nonsense, how can Zelensky call an halt to this illegal war, if Zelensky stops resisting Putins band of thugs all of Ukraine will fall to this evil dictator. All Putin has too do is to go back to the 2014 boundaries and pay for all the carnage this monster has caused and there will be peace. Ukraine can then join NATO and live in the knowledge that his country is safe from these psychopathic barbarians!

Unsurprisingly, you are talking out of the other end of your anatomy if you think your post is even remotely sensible.

 

I know you either don’t believe this or refuse to believe it (or maybe you don’t even know as you only follow western propaganda) but Putin has always said that he is open to talks. However this is legally not possible as a law was passed in Ukraine (I wonder which idiot thought this up) barring Ukraine from having peace talks with Russia as long as Putin is in power. So no peace talks for the next 5-6 years lol. You couldn’t make such stupidity up.

 

The upcoming peace talks or whatever in CH is going to be good for some laughs. Zelensky’s 10 point proposal has been whittled down to just 3. No talk of war tribunal, reparations etc etc. The most important people in the world won’t even be attending. Just chihuahuas like Sunak, Scholz, Macron…

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Unsurprisingly, you are talking out of the other end of your anatomy if you think your post is even remotely sensible.

 

I know you either don’t believe this or refuse to believe it (or maybe you don’t even know as you only follow western propaganda) but Putin has always said that he is open to talks. However this is legally not possible as a law was passed in Ukraine (I wonder which idiot thought this up) barring Ukraine from having peace talks with Russia as long as Putin is in power. So no peace talks for the next 5-6 years lol. You couldn’t make such stupidity up.

 

The upcoming peace talks or whatever in CH is going to be good for some laughs. Zelensky’s 10 point proposal has been whittled down to just 3. No talk of war tribunal, reparations etc etc. The most important people in the world won’t even be attending. Just chihuahuas like Sunak, Scholz, Macron…

You wouldn't know a sensible post if you found it swimming in your Borscht soup and your cop out on every thread is to blame the free Western Press while you indulge yourself with Russian propaganda and the like. Do you honestly believe this bilge you pump out incessantly.

There would be no need for peace talks if Russia hadn't illegally invaded Ukraine in the first place and how you fail to recognise this obvious flaw in all your arguments is a mystery to every man and his dog!

[Gweiloman]

22 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You wouldn't know a sensible post if you found it swimming in your Borscht soup and your cop out on every thread is to blame the free Western Press while you indulge yourself with Russian propaganda and the like. Do you honestly believe this bilge you pump out incessantly.

There would be no need for peace talks if Russia hadn't illegally invaded Ukraine in the first place and how you fail to recognise this obvious flaw in all your arguments is a mystery to every man and his dog!

There wouldn’t have been any conflict if Ukraine had decided to stay neutral. Even my dog knows that. Not some posters though…

[Wobblybob]

38 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

There wouldn’t have been any conflict if Ukraine had decided to stay neutral. Even my dog knows that. Not some posters though…

Link!

[BobBKK]

53 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Link!

 Would your thinking process be a good start? it is OBVIOUS

[Wobblybob]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 Would your thinking process be a good start? it is OBVIOUS

Just admit he and his merry band of appeasers are being less than truthful.

[BobBKK]

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Putin could end the war tomorrow, with a single command.

 So could Zelensky; it is called "NEUTRALITY".

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

Just admit he and his merry band of appeasers are being less than truthful.

 Truth is the first casualty of war, and both sides lie and spin - of course!  but this could have been avoided if Ukraine had implemented the 2014 agreement agreed with Germany and France as guarantors. Donbas with a degree of 'special status' and neutrality in the face of NATO's eastward push. But they chose to be a pawn of USA hegemony - a very foolish choice that costs Ukraine 100,000s of deaths... for nothing.

This USA-interfering strategy didn't work out too well in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and all the other places, did it?  The same will apply to Ukraine - better peace now than lose it all. The suffering is appalling. 

[BobBKK]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Very well said. I too have visited Russia several times on business. An ex gf was a lovely young masters graduate in political science from St. Petersburg University.

 

It’s a country that’s rich in history and culture. The people are extremely welcoming if you treat them with respect and they gladly welcome you into their homes or to join them at their tables in restaurants. What struck me also is how safe the streets of Moscow and St. P are, even at night. I definitely felt safer there than in London, Paris or Rome. No need to even talk about the streets of NY or Chicago. Well documented as to how unsafe those are.

Same here, ex. GF was in Pete - the most beautiful city on earth, IMHO. I worked on an exchange programme at a Moscow hospital (hospital management professional) and went often. People who have never been do not understand or have a clue about Russians or Russian history. Russians want peace and stability like everyone else, but the USA, particularly, loves to poke the bear and try to convert the whole world to the "USA way". It's not going to happen.