Had a small accident

[JoeyMac]

44 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

This.

 

The fact that you have been asked to come to the police station means the other party is seeking damages. (And the police, their cuto f same, which will raise the stakes).

 

Basically what happens in these cases is that the police "facilitate" a negotiated cash settlement.

 

Not at all uncommon, when a foreigner is involved, to seek ridiculously large amounts and also to lie about the nature of injuries and other damages. Insist on seeing proof of both, and keep in mind that mandatory 3rd party insurance of the motorcyclist will have paid up to 30,000 baht of the medical costs.

 

 

 

That's quite a minefield. 

 

So maybe it's best i take some legal advice here and take a solicitor with me? 

 

 

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

 

That's quite a minefield. 

 

So maybe it's best i take some legal advice here and take a solicitor with me? 

 

 

Unfortunately lawyers in Thailand are in no way what they are in the West, and will in a situation like this likely just add to the costs.

 

Also, nothing that will transpire goes by the letter of the law.

 

Best thing to bring with you is a Thai friend willing to advocate for you. Ideally an influential one, at minimum a reasonably respectable  and articulate one,  but whatever you can get.

 

And understand that you are going to have to pay something to make this go away. The issue is, how much.

 

 

 

[steven100]

8 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

Which is odd as i am going back home end of the month. 

 

well,   I know what I'd be doing ...       sounds like it's time to get outa Dodge ..     but that's your call '

 

JoeyMac,  they are trying to fleece you because you are a falang. 

 

 

Edited May 18 by steven100

[JoeyMac]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

 

well,   I know what I'd be doing ...       sounds like it's time to get outa Dodge ..     but that's your call '

 

JoeyMac,  they are trying to fleece you because you are a falang. 

 

 

 

 

Yes but i plan to return to Thailand in the future. I don't want nothing on my record here. 

[JoeyMac]

If i refuse to pay what the police say ... what would likely happen ?

[Hummin]

They take your passport

[JoeyMac]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

They take your passport

 

Blimey. Then what ? I assume then you wait for a court case ? How long will that take ?

[CHdiver]

You should also check if the bike had insurance and the driver a valid licence. 

[JoeyMac]

38 minutes ago, CHdiver said:

You should also check if the bike had insurance and the driver a valid licence. 

 

So far i've noted to check this. And furthermore, to note that his own insurance will cover him for a certain amount. And to bring someone of stature with me. 

 

I've also decided to call the tourist police. 

[JimTripper]

Is it just me or is the thread feeling like a wind up.

Edited May 19 by JimTripper

[FritsSikkink]

On 5/16/2024 at 5:43 PM, JoeyMac said:

 

 

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

 

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell. 

The statement most likely was in Thai language, are you sure what you signed for?

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

On 5/16/2024 at 1:43 PM, JoeyMac said:

If the cost is enormous, and i refuse to pay then what happens ?

 

I have already signed a brief statement to say i dropped my bags on the floor, and the other rider fell. 

The statement most likely was in Thai language, are you sure what you signed for?

 

Valid point - The statement would have been in Thai...   

 

Did the Op get a copy of his signed statement ?...     Someone could translate it for him.

 

In theory at least, he could have signed that he's 100% to blame for everything - he'll have little ground to stand on.

Never sign anything you don't fully understand, especially at a Police Station. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Is it just me or is the thread feeling like a wind up.

Seems entirely plausible to me. Sort of thing that happens  all the time.

 

From the facts provided by OP, he is liable. As he does not want to just leave the country with this hanging, he will have to pay something. The issue is to limit what he pays to the reasonable and to avoid being soaked for inflated or outright fabricated claims of injury and damage.

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

I've also decided to call the tourist police. 

 

Careful with this...   

 

The task of the Tourist Police is to actually Police the tourists...   They are not necessarily 'on your side' and more than likely to just agree with anything their peers suggest.

 

 

 

As already mentioned by others - the best thing you can do is have a 'respectable' Thai friend come along with you, someone you trust who can communicate and translate on your behalf in a manner in which the Thai Police will listen to.

 

---------

 

I had an accident years ago... In a Multi-story car Park... I was going slowly looking for a place to park (office hours), an impatient driver behind me decided to overtake and in doing so simply scraped the side of my car.

 

Within minutes we had about 20 of her colleagues with her as support - all wanting to 'blame the farang' (they were simply supporting her)....    Insurance came, Police came... no one except the car park security guard saw the incident, and as he was on the other side of the car park, he didn't really see it...   after speaking with the security guard who was influenced by the crowd the BiB and Insurance agreed that it was my fault.... I refused to sign - so we were instructed to both attend the Police station after work.

 

I called a close friend who's quite senior in the police... we've known each other very closely for a long time.

I explained what happened. He called the Police station...  called me back..  its dealt with, no need to bother going to the Police station...   turns out the other driver didn't have insurance...  Insurance came to see me and I signed for 50% responsibility so my insurance would pay for my damages only.

 

In an earlier incident years later - I didn't even need to get as far as calling my friend, I was able to convince the BiB that at accident was not my fault, I was police, but firm and stubborn...  with plenty of photo evidence etc.. the eventually came around.

 

Its good to have either the confidence of a someone as back-up, or to actually use that back-up... 

It can't be understated the effectiveness of having a respected Thai available to back you up... this places you on an even playing field you may otherwise find yourself at a disadvantage on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Seems entirely plausible to me. Sort of thing that happens  all the time.

 

From the facts provided by OP, he is liable. As he does not want to just leave the country with this hanging, he will have to pay something. The issue is to limit what he pays to the reasonable and to avoid being soaked for inflated or outright fabricated claims of injury and damage.

 

 

 

I just don't see it that way at all...   If the Op had slipped while stepping off the Moto-taxi and the following motorcycle had hit him and injured him it would be following motorcycles fault for...

a) Following too closely behind

b) Riding to fast to stop or take avoiding action

c) trying to under-take

 

I know this is not the UK.. But what would happen in the UK in the same circumstances ?... 

I believe the following motorcyclist would be at fault. 

The laws in Thailand follow a very similar code to the UK. 

And while I know the manner in which these rules are enforced and decided upon are at a very 'discretionary level' the BiB can't ignore certain facets of an incident for the convenience of placing sole blame at the feet on one party over another.

 

Its perfectly acceptable for the Op to push back, but in this culture, to get listened to, he may well need backup.

Nothing like this will go to a court, so the BiB could be police, firm, stubborn and the Police would realise that he is not quite the push-over they'd hoped. 

This is all a little late now though, as the Op signed a statement.

 

The lesson here is... we do not have to accept the Policeman's decision if we don't want to, as that decision is more often than not based on an emotional input rather than a legal one.

 

 

 

 

[JimTripper]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I just don't see it that way at all...   If the Op had slipped while stepping off the Moto-taxi and the following motorcycle had hit him and injured him it would be following motorcycles fault for...

a) Following too closely behind

b) Riding to fast to stop or take avoiding action

c) trying to under-take

 

I know this is not the UK.. But what would happen in the UK in the same circumstances ?... 

I believe the following motorcyclist would be at fault. 

The laws in Thailand follow a very similar code to the UK. 

And while I know the manner in which these rules are enforced and decided upon are at a very 'discretionary level' the BiB can't ignore certain facets of an incident for the convenience of placing sole blame at the feet on one party over another.

 

Its perfectly acceptable for the Op to push back, but in this culture, to get listened to, he may well need backup.

Nothing like this will go to a court, so the BiB could be police, firm, stubborn and the Police would realise that he is not quite the push-over they'd hoped. 

This is all a little late now though, as the Op signed a statement.

 

The lesson here is... we do not have to accept the Policeman's decision if we don't want to, as that decision is more often than not based on an emotional input rather than a legal one.

Thai's are much more influenced by what other people are saying. Kind of a "social pressure". In the Usa it's much more factual and evidence based.

 

If you have a group supporting one side that becomes the truth and reality of the incident and the "good of the whole", even if the facts of the case say different. What actually occured does not benefit the group, only the lone individual. Similar to pleading guilty to save the courts time and getting a reduced sentence because you care more about the group and smooth functioning of the system then yourself.

Edited May 19 by JimTripper

[rumak]

On 5/16/2024 at 5:24 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

The Moto-Taxi stopped to let you off at the left side of the road...  but leaving a gap... and another bike tried to 'under-take'... 

 

IMO - 100% not your fault. 

 

 

Refuse to accept any blame... I don't see how you can be at fault for getting of a motor-cycle (to the left).

 

It is also against the law to 'undertake' (pass to the left), so even though the moto-taxi you were alighting had stopped, this is still 'undertaking'. The following motorcycle should have passed to the right.

 

 

The BiB know this... and are just trying to take the path that most suits their agenda...  they are not following the law (IMO).

 

The following (injured) rider...

1) Undertaking

2) Riding dangerously (too close to avoid the bag)

3) Riding dangerous (too fast to stop)

 

 

 

to the OP :   this answer is the one I think is best .   now.... your PRESENTATION:

a.  if you can not speak Thai ..... bring a bi= lingual helper if you can ( not a lawyer )

b.  keep your version VERY SIMPLE ..... do not go off on another tangent.... stick to the

  fact that the one who fell was in the wrong for passing on left as you were DISMOUNTING ,(can even add that you were "startled" (dtok jai ) in thai}

c .  Stay very calm (outwordly) ,  polite,  soft spoken...... but resolute that you were not in the wrong

d.  If you feel that the chips and the "interviewers"  are definitely against you.... ask politely what they suggest you do.   ( sounds crazy,  but at least it will give you some idea)   .    If they want a certain amount you can then determine if you want to pay ( again,  should have a thai person with you to be sure there is an "agreement" signed by both parties

e.  If you really feel you are being scammed big time......... then ???  i would have to be there to suggest how to proceed.   This is one situation where the ability to speak thai i think really helps .

Edited May 19 by rumak

[rumak]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its good to have either the confidence of a someone as back-up, or to actually use that back-up... 

It can't be understated the effectiveness of having a respected Thai available to back you up... this places you on an even playing field you may otherwise find yourself at a disadvantage on.

maybe you can give him the phone number of that police friend of yours 😅

 

but...... true that a "respectable"  back up is a big help ( how many members here have that ?? )

Edited May 19 by rumak

[rumak]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:21 AM, mstevens said:

On 5/17/2024 at 1:54 AM, JimTripper said:

a thai friend is not a 100% solution to everything

That's true, but it can be very helpful in situations like this.

 

a thai friend that has the smarts and ability to converse ( mediate for you ) ...... 

not just a gf.    in fact....... definitely not a gf unless she is really "different"

[rumak]

9 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

 

So far i've noted to check this. And furthermore, to note that his own insurance will cover him for a certain amount. And to bring someone of stature with me. 

 

I've also decided to call the tourist police. 

not a good idea  (IMHO)

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, rumak said:

a thai friend that has the smarts and ability to converse ( mediate for you ) ...... 

not just a gf.    in fact....... definitely not a gf unless she is really "different"

 

Very true...  'some' of a lower status (dare I say BG) would not only be faced with a certain degree contempt, but she'd also lower the status of the Op in the eyes of the police, added to which, someone of lower status, may be far more subservient to the police than the situation needs.

 

However, if the Ops GF is a respectable well presented, intelligent smart, lady who's higher up the socio-totem-pole...  then that could bring him a certain degree of kudos and up his 'optics'.

 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Very true...  'some' of a lower status (dare I say BG) would not only be faced with a certain degree contempt, but she'd also lower the status of the Op in the eyes of the police, added to which, someone of lower status, may be far more subservient to the police than the situation needs.

 

However, if the Ops GF is a respectable well presented, intelligent smart, lady who's higher up the socio-totem-pole...  then that could bring him a certain degree of kudos and up his 'optics'.

 

 

 

 

A lawyer?

 

So far this case seems like a no case, and what we do is just guessing what will happen. It is either motorbike taxi stopping wrong place, or an ignorant motorbiker crashing in to his bags fault. 

 

Bring a lawyer, will cost you a couple of thousand bath. 

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, Hummin said:

A lawyer?

 

So far this case seems like a no case, and what we do is just guessing what will happen. It is either motorbike taxi stopping wrong place, or an ignorant motorbiker crashing in to his bags fault. 

 

Bring a lawyer, will cost you a couple of thousand bath. 

 

I agree with you, except on the lawyer part...

 

How many reliable lawyers do you know that cost as little as 2000 baht to accompany you to a police station and argue your case ??....  

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Very true...  'some' of a lower status (dare I say BG) would not only be faced with a certain degree contempt, but she'd also lower the status of the Op in the eyes of the police, added to which, someone of lower status, may be far more subservient to the police than the situation needs.

 

However, if the Ops GF is a respectable well presented, intelligent smart, lady who's higher up the socio-totem-pole...  then that could bring him a certain degree of kudos and up his 'optics'.

Or turn it into a circus with a group of people, everyone recording on their phones. Pay a group of girls 500 baht each to show up with him make a bunch of noise in the lobby and record. Tell them you need it for a youtube video.

Edited May 19 by JimTripper

[Hummin]

26 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Or turn it into a circus with a group of people, everyone recording on their phones. Pay a group of girls 500 baht each to show up with him make a bunch of noise in the lobby and record. Tell them you need it for a youtube video.

You need to be a gangster to pull that off, and a few thousands of followers to pull that off successfully as the aussy did in Pattaya. Cant recall his name

 

Tim something?

Edited May 19 by Hummin

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

You need to be a gangster to pull that off, and a few thousands of followers to pull that off successfully as the aussy did in Pattaya. Cant recall his name

 

Tim something?

Tim Sharky?? Went back to Australia last I heard.

[rumak]

Op said :  I've also decided to call the tourist police. 

 

that could really complicate things .............. and,   NOT in your favor 

[JoeyMac]

Unfortunately .... what's happened HAS happened. I am thankful for the advice on here. 

 

 

[steven100]

32 minutes ago, JoeyMac said:

Unfortunately .... what's happened HAS happened. I am thankful for the advice on here. 

 

 

 

JoeyMac,  I'd leave the Tourist police out of it ....  they won't help you and could make it awkward.  They are there to assist the RTP. 

 

as I said,   maybe it's time to get outa Dodge ...  

[rumak]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The task of the Tourist Police is to actually Police the tourists...   They are not necessarily 'on your side' and more than likely to just agree with anything their peers suggest.

 

 

 

As already mentioned by others - the best thing you can do is have a 'respectable' Thai friend come along with you, someone you trust who can communicate and translate on your behalf in a manner in which the Thai Police will listen to.

so far you, Sheryl,  and I  (all long term experienced sources ) have expressed this opinion .     I understand that the OP  is not sure the best way to proceed .

 

for what its worth... the one time i got the tourist police involved,  the guy who came when i asked for mediation was definitely NOT on my side