Tax Id Number

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I guess it depends on which TRD staff you deal with.

 

I'm entered Thailand on non-Immigrant O and I am currently on extension based on retirement.

 

In 2021, after getting my first extension, I went to the TRD office in Nong Hoi.  I guessed which door to go in, was soon pointed to the correct door and was given my Thai tax ID within 15 minutes.  I told them SCB bank wanted my tax ID to open a new EZ Savings account.

 

I had my bank books, a residence certificate from Thai Imm. and my passport with me.

And I did very similar some years ago. The District office clearly didn't want to be bothered with handing out TIN's to farang so they sent me to the Regional office who happily obliged. It's not much different to opening a bank account here, one branch says no, another person says no, so you go to a new branch and a new person.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

16 hours ago, Confuscious said:

 

I went this morning to the tax department to apply for a tax-id number and it was denied.
Their answer was that I had a RETIREMENT VISA which didn't allow me to work and thus I would not need a tax-id.
So, for me, that's the end of discussion with the tax department.

Good strategy - keep the date and time recorded so that later if you are ever questioned (I doubt you ever will be), you can state that you wne to the Office and they said quote "........".  Did you go alone or with someone else - that could be handy to keep recorded too. 

The old Thailand problem - what are the the rules and what the 'Officer' in that Office says are the rules. 

 

[jayboy]

In reality I suspect a large number of expatriates - maybe even a majority - in Thailand have obtained TIN numbers because of pressure from their banks overseas (which themselves are coming under pressure). The reasons are well known and relate to international tax compliance.But I would add another, namely the fear on the part of expatriates that they might be debanked - not very likely I agree but even at low odds that would be an intolerable position for most people.

[jayboy]

On 5/15/2024 at 4:49 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The rules are not always the issue in Thailand - it is what they decide to enforce and how they interpret them.

 

This is true and any experienced businessman - or indeed anyone familiar with Thai culture and government - in Thailand knows it to be true across a variety of sectors.However because there is nothing written down (indeed there may even be a law contradicting actual practice). It's down to custom and usage but there will always be those who refuse to accept.It's usually a waste of time debating or arguing with them.

[proton]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:18 PM, Confuscious said:

I live in Thailand more than 2 decades on a Retirement Visa.
During all these years I paid Taxes, mostly from Interest over my money in the bank (800,000 baht) and shopping items.
With the new tax rules, I will be required to pay taxes on money transferts to Thailand and other things.
I never asked for a tax-id as I thaught that a foreigner only requires a tax-id when receiving money from working in Thailand.
Do I need to apply for a tax-id number or not?
What benefit do I have if requiring a tax-id number?

 

why pay tax on the 800k when you dont have to?

[Confuscious]

2 hours ago, proton said:

 

why pay tax on the 800k when you dont have to?

I receive interest on the 800K every 6 months.
The received interest is taxed before trasferred to my account.
The bank specifies CLEARLY that interest above a limit is subjected to TAX.

[Confuscious]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Good strategy - keep the date and time recorded so that later if you are ever questioned (I doubt you ever will be), you can state that you wne to the Office and they said quote "........".  Did you go alone or with someone else - that could be handy to keep recorded too. 

The old Thailand problem - what are the the rules and what the 'Officer' in that Office says are the rules. 

 

 

I have recorded the short discussion with tax department.
I went alone.

Indeed, the old Thailand problem and I am tired to dance for a couple of monkees.
Have better things to do with my life at 70 years.

[Confuscious]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The Introduction to Tax says this about the refusal of staff to issue a TIN:

 

There is no valid reason why a TRD office should refuse to issue you with a TIN, as long as as you have all the required documents and they are all in order. If you are met with refusal, the head office in Bangkok will be most interested. If you continue to have problems obtaining a TIN, the Revenue Department Help Line number is 02 272 8000 and they will be able to assist you.

 

I have totally no intention to spend my time going from one TRD-Office to the other or to hang a day on the phone, at my expenses, calling a THAI Help Line and waiting till they find someone to assist me in understandable ENGLISH.

I don't need a TAX-ID at this stage and they can shove their TAX-ID there where the sun never shines.

About 4 years ago, I received a letter from the TAX department in Belgium and they said that someone had informed them that I was working and had a revenue in Thailand.

I answerred that I could never obtain such letter from the Tax department as I was on a RETIREMENT VISA and it was not permitted to work.
Besided that, working on RETIREMENT was also illegal in Belgium and when catched working illegaly they could retract my RETIREMENT.

But the TAX department wanted to see a proof that I was NOT WORKING.

PROOF THAT I COMITTED NO CRIME?
Succes with that.

I went to the Tax department (the same as yesterday) and their answer was that they could not write should as letter as I had no TAX-ID.

 

I wrote a letter to the EMBASSY and they gave me a letter stating that I was not working LEGALLY in Thailand (signed and stamped Affidavit of income) and that was accepted.

 

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

 

I have totally no intention to spend my time going from one TRD-Office to the other or to hang a day on the phone, at my expenses, calling a THAI Help Line and waiting till they find someone to assist me in understandable ENGLISH.

I don't need a TAX-ID at this stage and they can shove their TAX-ID there where the sun never shines.

About 4 years ago, I received a letter from the TAX department in Belgium and they said that someone had informed them that I was working and had a revenue in Thailand.

I answerred that I could never obtain such letter from the Tax department as I was on a RETIREMENT VISA and it was not permitted to work.
Besided that, working on RETIREMENT was also illegal in Belgium and when catched working illegaly they could retract my RETIREMENT.

But the TAX department wanted to see a proof that I was NOT WORKING.

PROOF THAT I COMITTED NO CRIME?
Succes with that.

I went to the Tax department (the same as yesterday) and their answer was that they could not write should as letter as I had no TAX-ID.

 

I wrote a letter to the EMBASSY and they gave me a letter stating that I was not working LEGALLY in Thailand (signed and stamped Affidavit of income) and that was accepted.

 

Up to you.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

39 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

 

I have totally no intention to spend my time going from one TRD-Office to the other or to hang a day on the phone, at my expenses, calling a THAI Help Line and waiting till they find someone to assist me in understandable ENGLISH.

I don't need a TAX-ID at this stage and they can shove their TAX-ID there where the sun never shines.

About 4 years ago, I received a letter from the TAX department in Belgium and they said that someone had informed them that I was working and had a revenue in Thailand.

I answerred that I could never obtain such letter from the Tax department as I was on a RETIREMENT VISA and it was not permitted to work.
Besided that, working on RETIREMENT was also illegal in Belgium and when catched working illegaly they could retract my RETIREMENT.

But the TAX department wanted to see a proof that I was NOT WORKING.

PROOF THAT I COMITTED NO CRIME?
Succes with that.

I went to the Tax department (the same as yesterday) and their answer was that they could not write should as letter as I had no TAX-ID.

 

I wrote a letter to the EMBASSY and they gave me a letter stating that I was not working LEGALLY in Thailand (signed and stamped Affidavit of income) and that was accepted.

 

I agree - this is IMO the way most Expats who are not working in Thailand should move forward. If anyone thinks the TRD will be OK and understand the complexities in foreign earnings and how DTAs work, they are IMO extremely misguided and/or mistaken. Just look at all the problems Expats have in dealing with their local Immigration Offices with all their trials and tribulations and different 'rules and interpretations'.  Remember - those Immigration Offices are set up to do one thing and one thing only - deal with Immigration issues. That is why many speak English and they have decades of experience in dealings with 'us'.  The Thailand TRD is not set up at all to deal with Expats issues/complaints, and very few of them in the boondocks (where we are) will speak English.  I agree with you mate - they are to be avoided if at all possible - and I also agree they can shove it where the sun does not shine - and there are a lot of us with that view.  Give us equality and rights that Thais get, and also much easier residency, and then I will be happy to pay income taxes to Thailand. IMO only Thai citizens and permanent residents should be required to pay income taxes on foregn earned income. The rest of us living here long term are glorified tourists who have to apply to stay every 3 months and then beg/pay to do that for another 12 months - while spending far more money in Thailand than the average Thai. 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

 

I have totally no intention to spend my time going from one TRD-Office to the other or to hang a day on the phone, at my expenses, calling a THAI Help Line and waiting till they find someone to assist me in understandable ENGLISH.

I don't need a TAX-ID at this stage and they can shove their TAX-ID there where the sun never shines.

About 4 years ago, I received a letter from the TAX department in Belgium and they said that someone had informed them that I was working and had a revenue in Thailand.

I answerred that I could never obtain such letter from the Tax department as I was on a RETIREMENT VISA and it was not permitted to work.
Besided that, working on RETIREMENT was also illegal in Belgium and when catched working illegaly they could retract my RETIREMENT.

But the TAX department wanted to see a proof that I was NOT WORKING.

PROOF THAT I COMITTED NO CRIME?
Succes with that.

I went to the Tax department (the same as yesterday) and their answer was that they could not write should as letter as I had no TAX-ID.

 

I wrote a letter to the EMBASSY and they gave me a letter stating that I was not working LEGALLY in Thailand (signed and stamped Affidavit of income) and that was accepted.

 

You are clearly misinformed, and unless you get your act together regarding immigration and tax matters, you will continue to be so. Despite living in Thailand for two decades, you should know that Thailand has never issued a 'retirement visa'—it doesn't exist. In other words, you don't have a retirement visa.

If you are serious about understanding the current tax situation, listen to and follow the guidance provided by Mike Lister.

Given your long stay in Thailand, what do you expect from recording a conversation with a government official? This is a rhetorical question—no answer needed.

It's time to face reality and take action. Some individuals in this and other tax-related discussions are perpetual naysayers with overblown egos, sharing wishful and twisted thoughts.

Regardless of your age, as a tax resident you will have to comply with the regulations of the Revenue Department, take my word for it. And your arrogance will bite you eventually.

[proton]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

I receive interest on the 800K every 6 months.
The received interest is taxed before trasferred to my account.
The bank specifies CLEARLY that interest above a limit is subjected to TAX.

 

But you can claim the tax back and stop them deducting it- with a tax number

[jayboy]

57 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

You are clearly misinformed, and unless you get your act together regarding immigration and tax matters, you will continue to be so. Despite living in Thailand for two decades, you should know that Thailand has never issued a 'retirement visa'—it doesn't exist. In other words, you don't have a retirement visa.

If you are serious about understanding the current tax situation, listen to and follow the guidance provided by Mike Lister.

Given your long stay in Thailand, what do you expect from recording a conversation with a government official? This is a rhetorical question—no answer needed.

It's time to face reality and take action. Some individuals in this and other tax-related discussions are perpetual naysayers with overblown egos, sharing wishful and twisted thoughts.

Regardless of your age, as a tax resident you will have to comply with the regulations of the Revenue Department, take my word for it. And your arrogance will bite you eventually.

 

It's fairly obvious he means visa for retirement purposes.More generally this kind of abrasive language really doesn't help.There must be many retired expatriates in Thailand on relatively low incomes who are quite apprehensive about the enforcement of tax on pensions/current income.They will often be quite unsophisticated types unfamiliar with tax, finance and law and who wouldn't know a DTA from an MBA.This forum and Mike Lister in particular has done a good job in taking them by the hand.I don't think ordinary pensioners are going to be affected much.But in the meantime give them a break and ease up on the lecturing.

 

 

[Everyman]

What are the consequences for doing absolutely nothing about this supposed new tax issue?

[CharlesHolzhauer]

27 minutes ago, jayboy said:

More generally this kind of abrasive language

Abrasive language? Oh well.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

19 minutes ago, Everyman said:

What are the consequences for doing absolutely nothing about this supposed new tax issue?

The consequences of doing absolutely nothing about the new tax issue are difficult to determine precisely. However, it is likely that ignoring tax laws would result in either severe or less severe penalties, similar to the consequences in your country for tax non-compliance.

[Mavideol]

22 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I guess it depends on which TRD staff you deal with.

 

I'm entered Thailand on non-Immigrant O and I am currently on extension based on retirement.

 

In 2021, after getting my first extension, I went to the TRD office in Nong Hoi.  I guessed which door to go in, was soon pointed to the correct door and was given my Thai tax ID within 15 minutes.  I told them SCB bank wanted my tax ID to open a new EZ Savings account.

 

I had my bank books, a residence certificate from Thai Imm. and my passport with me.

and when was that exactly... we are talking about Thailand whereby each different office in the same province may have different requirements

[gamb00ler]

22 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

In 2021, after getting my first extension, I went to the TRD office in Nong Hoi.  I guessed which door to go in, was soon pointed to the correct door and was given my Thai tax ID within 15 minutes.  I told them SCB bank wanted my tax ID to open a new EZ Savings account.

 

5 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and when was that exactly... we are talking about Thailand whereby each different office in the same province may have different requirements

I mentioned that it was 2021..... probably August because that is the oldest statement I have on file.

[Confuscious]

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

But you can claim the tax back and stop them deducting it- with a tax number

Claim back a few USD.

5555555555555555
ROTFLMAO

I gave more on a tip at the restaurant than the interest on my bank deposit.
Do you really think that I would start to spend a day filling papers and visiting Tax offices for a few USD?

[gamb00ler]

9 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

Claim back a few USD.

5555555555555555
ROTFLMAO

I gave more on a tip at the restaurant than the interest on my bank deposit.
Do you really think that I would start to spend a day filling papers and visiting Tax offices for a few USD?

or..... you could keep the tax ID in your wallet and next time you're at your bank show it to them and ask them to stop withholding the 15% of your interest.

[Confuscious]

2 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

You are clearly misinformed, and unless you get your act together regarding immigration and tax matters, you will continue to be so. Despite living in Thailand for two decades, you should know that Thailand has never issued a 'retirement visa'—it doesn't exist. In other words, you don't have a retirement visa.

 

The extension stamps of the Immigration in my passport says clearly "RETIREMENT".
Off course, Immigration is not as knowledgable as you and have not the same authority as you on Visa matters, MR. Woodbeater.

STOP WITH YOUR WORD JUGGLING.
Nobody, and not me at the least, is interested in your hair splitting all over ThaiVisa (ASEAN NOW).
RETIREMENT VISA does exist and Immigration know what people are talking about when they say "Retirment" or "Spouse" Visa.

 

[proton]

34 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

Claim back a few USD.

5555555555555555
ROTFLMAO

I gave more on a tip at the restaurant than the interest on my bank deposit.
Do you really think that I would start to spend a day filling papers and visiting Tax offices for a few USD?

 

It's more the principle of being taxed when you don't have to be, if you want to throw money away up to you

[Confuscious]

27 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

or..... you could keep the tax ID in your wallet and next time you're at your bank show it to them and ask them to stop withholding the 15% of your interest.

Next time I will go to my bank I will tell them to stop witholding 0,53 USD (approx. 15 Thai Baht) and making me a poor immigrant.
ROTFLMAO.

I think I will stop discussing with this Amoeba and wait untill his singular brain cell is working again.

[gamb00ler]

3 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

Next time I will go to my bank I will tell them to stop witholding 0,53 USD (approx. 15 Thai Baht) and making me a poor immigrant.
ROTFLMAO.

I think I will stop discussing with this Amoeba and wait untill his singular brain cell is working again.

It's not my fault that you chose a bank account that pays so little interest.  I guess my singular cell is just simply better at financial affairs.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post contravening our Community Standards has been removed.

[topt]

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Ditto - and same for any foreigner with a bank account deposit. The interest they are given is after 35% tax has been paid to the TRD.  

I think you will find (as @gamb00ler mentioned) that it is 15%.............hyperbole much.......

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Confuscious said:

Next time I will go to my bank I will tell them to stop witholding 0,53 USD (approx. 15 Thai Baht) and making me a poor immigrant.
ROTFLMAO.

I think I will stop discussing with this Amoeba and wait untill his singular brain cell is working again.

Here's a peace offering .....

https://aseannow.com/topic/1305013-bank-savings-interest-rates-2023/?do=findComment&comment=18831070

 

There is however a correction to that post:  LHBank does accept foreign depositors for this rate.

 

[Confuscious]

6 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

You are clearly misinformed, and unless you get your act together regarding immigration and tax matters, you will continue to be so.

2 months ago I went for my visa extension, like every year.

All documents were ready and we're accepted every year before.

But there were new officers and they wanted to show that they had some power.

They started to refuse some documents, change other documents, and whatever they pleased to demand that day.

I took the whole paperwork and went to a visa agent 

Paid a few dollar and I got my visa extension a few hours later.

With a smile from the immigration officer.

The agent will take charge of the 90 days reports and the paperwork for next year.

Guess who was the happiest at the end?

[CharlesHolzhauer]

10 hours ago, Confuscious said:

2 months ago I went for my visa extension, like every year.

All documents were ready and we're accepted every year before.

But there were new officers and they wanted to show that they had some power.

They started to refuse some documents, change other documents, and whatever they pleased to demand that day.

I took the whole paperwork and went to a visa agent 

Paid a few dollar and I got my visa extension a few hours later.

With a smile from the immigration officer.

The agent will take charge of the 90 days reports and the paperwork for next year.

Guess who was the happiest at the end?

I applaud you for recognizing the need for assistance with specialized services like immigration issues—well done. You might want to consider taking a similar approach when dealing with the Thai Revenue Department.

[Mavideol]

20 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

I mentioned that it was 2021..... probably August because that is the oldest statement I have on file.

sorry, you didn't get the joke, I know how to read, the point was the laws/rules/regulations change on a daily/weekly basis here, thus the sarcastic date question