Let the young ones build your new Desktop

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/6/2024 at 5:22 AM, SpaceKadet said:

Nothing secret here.

For the network backbone I'm using TP-LINK 5-Port 10G Desktop Switch (TL-SX105) https://www.invadeit.co.th/product/wired-networking/tp-link/5-port-10g-desktop-switch-tl-sx105-p057291/

 

The WiFi router is Asus AX6000 Dual Band WiFi 6 Router (RT-AX89X), which has 10Gbps port https://www.invadeit.co.th/product/wireless-networking/asus/ax6000-dual-band-wifi-6-router-rt-ax89x-p055631/

 

For the PC's, they have 10Gbps ethernet either build in the MoBo (Asus ProArt Z790-CREATOR WiFi) or use TP-LINK TX401 10 Gigabit PCI Express Network Adapter https://www.invadeit.co.th/product/wired-networking/tp-link/tx401-10-gigabit-pci-express-network-adapter-p057243/

 

Internet connection is 500/1000 Mbps fiber supplied by TOT.

 

My main usage is interaction between the home PC's, that's why I chose high bandwidth for the backbone. I have 4 main PC's, plus generally run 2-4 Windows and Linux instances in Virtual on the main rig, plus there are Laptops, phones, tablets and such minor junk connecting through the WiFi.

Wow. 

 

Probably faster than the blink of an eye.     Awesome. 

 

You get what you pay for. 

 

If you were to chose a potential / hypothetical bottle neck in your system, other than the internet connection, what would it be?  

 

I've often wondered just at what point does the processor (recent builds) become the bottle neck. 

[KannikaP]

On 6/4/2024 at 11:02 PM, Gottfrid said:

However, I agree 200% with that Win 11 sucks big time.

Examples please, because I have no problems with it.

[KannikaP]

8 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

Where do you think your data is stored in the cloud?

 

As of the end of 2023, Backblaze was monitoring 270,222 hard drives used to store data.

     --https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/

 

OH. Hard drives.🤣

 

Why be obligated to make recurring payments for storage on their hard drives, w/ slower access, dependent on their service, when I can just have my data at hand locally? Unless--I have only a laptop. 

You can put very big SSDs in a laptop.

[Gottfrid]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Examples please, because I have no problems with it.

Ok, if you like it, that´s good. I don´t and prefer Win 10. There are many with me, and also many with you. Just leave it with that.

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, if you like it, that´s good. I don´t and prefer Win 10. There are many with me, and also many with you. Just leave it with that.

Hey, there's those in Immigration and Banks who prefer W7, 8 or MS DOS!

[Gottfrid]

52 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Hey, there's those in Immigration and Banks who prefer W7, 8 or MS DOS!

Sure, That opens up for a lot of security issues. That is not yet the case regarding Win 10. probably will be in the future, and then I will have to upgrade, but I will wait as long as I can. 🙂 It´s also a hell of a work for me to change as I am running server editions from 2022 that are connected to my 3 Win 10 computers and my own web hotel that runs more than 400 sites I own.

[BigStar]

Just now, KannikaP said:

You can put very big SSDs in a laptop.

 

Oh, I just had no idea. OK, I want 3x500 GB SSDs for boot/game drives and at least 2x6 TB SSDs for data/backup.

 

Find me the laptop to fit those. Then transfer the price of the laptop and the price difference between the large SSDs and HDDs to my bank account. Baht will be fine. PM for account details.

 

I'll just connect my current monitor externally. 

 

Otherwise, assuming your usual hot air, I'll just stick to my current economical desktop, thank you. It's plenty powerful enough. No, I don't need a NUC or mini-PC, either. No, I'm not going to install Win11. Yes, I know the workarounds, but I don't need a workaround.

 

Edited June 8 by BigStar

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Examples please, because I have no problems with it.

Windows 12 being released before the End of Life of Windows 11, and Windows 10, for that matter. 

 

Looks like Windows 11 was similar to Vista, terrible. 

 

Just one of many articles. 

 

https://www.techopedia.com/windows-12-release-date-latest-news-leaks-prices#:~:text=Estimated Launch%3A July-October 2024&text=Based on the company's previous,with Microsoft's traditional launch windows.

[SpaceKadet]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Windows 12 being released before the End of Life of Windows 11, and Windows 10, for that matter. 

 

Looks like Windows 11 was similar to Vista, terrible. 

 

Just one of many articles. 

 

https://www.techopedia.com/windows-12-release-date-latest-news-leaks-prices#:~:text=Estimated Launch%3A July-October 2024&text=Based on the company's previous,with Microsoft's traditional launch windows.

It is well known that every second Windows version is crap.

 

Excluding Windows 3.1, let's recap:

Windows 95 - The first real Windows GUI, had it's quirks.

Windows 98 - Much improved.

Windows ME - Crap.

Windows XP - Nice and working, but had limited support for new hardware unless you're running 64 bit version.

Windows Vista -  Disaster.

Windows 7 - Now we're talking, the first real 64 bit OS from MS.

Windows 8 - Crap, what a disaster.

Windows 10 - Pretty much OK once you get used to it and disable all the spyware.

Windows 11 - Crap.

Windows 12 - ???

 

[Furioso]

11 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

It is well known that every second Windows version is crap.

 

Excluding Windows 3.1, let's recap:

Windows 95 - The first real Windows GUI, had it's quirks.

Windows 98 - Much improved.

Windows ME - Crap.

Windows XP - Nice and working, but had limited support for new hardware unless you're running 64 bit version.

Windows Vista -  Disaster.

Windows 7 - Now we're talking, the first real 64 bit OS from MS.

Windows 8 - Crap, what a disaster.

Windows 10 - Pretty much OK once you get used to it and disable all the spyware.

Windows 11 - Crap.

Windows 12 - ???

 

I think there's a popular YouTube video where the host explains step by step how to setup Win 11 so it's not a piece of crap. Still, I'm sticking with Win 10 until I have to change, which won't be anytime soon..I hope. 

Edited June 8 by Furioso

[BigStar]

13 hours ago, Furioso said:

I think there's a popular YouTube video where the host explains step by step how to setup Win 11 so it's not a piece of crap.

 

Yes. All versions of Windows need taming for civilized use. Takes some time and persistence. Most people don't bother w/ customization, however. In fact, some posters here have been strongly opposed to the idea, priding themselves in wearing the hair shirt thrown to them by M'soft.

 

14 hours ago, Furioso said:

Still, I'm sticking with Win 10 until I have to change, which won't be anytime soon..I hope. 

 

I'm with you. Win 10 does all I need and does it quite well, tuned and tweaked, so no point in downgrading to Win 11. 

 

 

[ElwoodP]

Some bickering and off topic posts removed.

[BigStar]

16 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Windows 12 being released before the End of Life of Windows 11, and Windows 10, for that matter. 

 

No. Mere rumors. More to the point:

 

Microsoft Confirms the Next Version of Windows is 24H2, Not Windows 12

 

Change of direction; try to keep up.

 

However, in late 2023, Panos Panay, who was leading Windows and Surface development, left Microsoft due to a significant strategic shift for the company.

 

Without Panay, the new Windows direction now feels that a whole new version of Windows would be more of a problem than a benefit.

     --Windows 11 2024 Update: What's new and why it's not Windows 12

 

16 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Looks like Windows 11 was similar to Vista, terrible. 

 

No. It has its detractors, but many supporters as well; and M'soft is in fact doubling down on it.

 

16 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just one of many articles. 

 

One of many out-of-date, web content hack articles. Relies for the "most compelling evidence" the mere thinking of Intel's chief financial officer, last year. Intel, LOL.

 

[SpaceKadet]

23 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Wow. 

 

Probably faster than the blink of an eye.     Awesome. 

 

You get what you pay for. 

 

If you were to chose a potential / hypothetical bottle neck in your system, other than the internet connection, what would it be?  

 

I've often wondered just at what point does the processor (recent builds) become the bottle neck. 

5555, far from it. Several blinks would be required. 

 

Interesting question. When I was designing my new rig I expected it to be my last build. Therefore, I was keen to chose future proofed components as much as I could. I don't think I have any bottle necks apart from the current state of technology. Namely SATA III and HDD speed. SATA III transfer speed is rated at 6Gbps, which translates to around 550MBps with SATA overhead. I'm using Seagate SkyHawk HDD's, the fastest spinners for SATA. Sequential read up to 250 MBps, which is almost half the speed of SATA SSD's. 

 

However, if I knew then what I've learned empirically from running my rig at extremes, I would probably have chosen Ryzen 7 (probably 7950X)  CPU instead of Intel i9-13900. For two main reasons.

 

1. Windows 10 does not support, and is unlikely in the future, Intel Thread Manager. This make some applications confused about how to use P-cores and E-cores. By default, is seems, the workload is dumped on the E-cores, which are slower, even if there are more of them. And, like I have mentioned before, I will not upgrade to Win11. 

 

2. When I'm using all cores/threads to 100%, the processor hits 100 degC and Thermal Throttling very quickly. Even while using top Corsair 360mm AIO liquid cooler, and undervolting the processor by 85mV. I can contain the Thermal Throttling somewhat by undervolting further to 110mV, but then run into stability issues. I have always overclocked all my builds by at least 25%, but in the case of the i9, it's just a nogo.

 

To answer your last point, my last main rig was over 10 years old when I build this new monster. Here's some performance figures from that build. https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/17889690 This is Intel Gen 5  processor. I have build several rigs for friends since, with much newer Intel processors, but they still couldn't beat my old rig in benchmarks. So definitely more that 10 years to become the bottle neck, if you chose your components right. Should mention that is was overclocked by 25%, and when running at 100% for several hours never went above 75 deg C.

It has since been relegated to running my NAS when the new rig was built. Having a dedicated LSI SAS/SATA Host Adapter and RAID configuration, it will easily saturate the 10Gbps Ethernet backbone.

 

[patman30]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:29 PM, shdmn said:

You still use hard drives?  Do you also continue adding to your vinyl record collection and communicate via ham radio instead of the internet?   

we are not the same.

 

[patman30]

On 6/8/2024 at 6:25 PM, KannikaP said:

Examples please, because I have no problems with it.

first thing i had to do with win11 is bring back classic right click menu, new one is horrid and you just need click show more every time making it pointless.

one issue to be aware of though is copilot and what they plan for future
so far only limited to machines with certain chips
but having the OS screenshot every single thing you do including screenshotting passwords, is way too intrusive
when copilot is unavoidable, i will have no choice but switch to Linux

[ravip]

On 5/18/2024 at 5:19 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

 

The same specs is not the same as the same quality of parts.

People can build cheap computers, and they can build good computers. But not (relatively seen) good and cheap computers at the same time.

I.e. you can get a keyboard for 100B and one for 3000B and more. In theory, they are the same spec. But they are not.

The fact that you were impressed doesn't mean much.

 

In my experience there are a couple of guys in those computer shops who know what they are doing. And then there are many who know little. Maybe they know a couple of words which impress the average customer but that's about it.

I.e. just look how most of those "computer specialists" touch sensitive hardware like RAM modules. Many touch the contact with their sweaty fingers and they are not even aware that you shouldn't do that. 

Obviously even a bad computer works somehow, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work reliable and for years like a good computer. 

 

 

TBH I agree with you.

But, through experience of more than 2 decades, even the best brands fail quite often. This, one can experience in the corporate world where 10's or maybe 100's of units pass by.

Home use, building desktops with fairly good quality components work fine, more economically. Just my 2 ¢

[ravip]

On 6/8/2024 at 9:14 PM, SpaceKadet said:

It is well known that every second Windows version is crap.

 

Excluding Windows 3.1, let's recap:

Windows 95 - The first real Windows GUI, had it's quirks.

Windows 98 - Much improved.

Windows ME - Crap.

Windows XP - Nice and working, but had limited support for new hardware unless you're running 64 bit version.

Windows Vista -  Disaster.

Windows 7 - Now we're talking, the first real 64 bit OS from MS.

Windows 8 - Crap, what a disaster.

Windows 10 - Pretty much OK once you get used to it and disable all the spyware.

Windows 11 - Crap.

Windows 12 - ???

 

Surprisingly, crap works well on millions of PC's.

[ravip]

On 6/8/2024 at 9:25 PM, Furioso said:

I think there's a popular YouTube video where the host explains step by step how to setup Win 11 so it's not a piece of crap. Still, I'm sticking with Win 10 until I have to change, which won't be anytime soon..I hope. 

There is absolutely no issues with Windows 11 Pro (Licensed). I installed it on a old Intel i5 PC (over 10y), with a SSD & 8GB RAM works like a baby! OK... I am NOT doing video/audio editing and other high demanding stuff. I always stick to the Intel processor.

(HP Probook 4530s).

 

TP-Link is just one brand I trust for routers etc.

Edited June 11 by ravip

[patman30]

4 minutes ago, ravip said:

There is absolutely no issues with Windows 11 Pro (Licensed). I installed it on a old Intel i5 PC (over 10y), with a SSD & 8GB RAM works like a baby! OK... I am NOT doing video/audio editing and other high demanding stuff.

(HP Probook 4530s).

there was a lot of issues but this is expected with any new software, and windows have a habit of just releasing and let the public do the debugging,
and this is where many will jump in and give it a try then decide they don't like it
i don't find much wrong with win11 but on the surface there is not much difference from win10 but i only installed after issues were fixed
but unlike yourself i had no joy with win11 on some low end or older machines, which i ended up running windows 8.1 as 10&11 were too laggy

what i do not like is MS always trying to make it more difficult to install windows offline or without MS account

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, patman30 said:

we are not the same.

One day I will check if there is still anything important on those.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, patman30 said:

what i do not like is MS always trying to make it more difficult to install windows offline or without MS account

In theory you are right.

But who uses a Windows PC without internet these days? Almost everything needs and internet connection, and many applications want an account. So having one (more) account and set it all up with an MS account makes life easier. 

[patman30]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

One day I will check if there is still anything important on those.

My drives are not old, we are not the same.

 

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In theory you are right.

But who uses a Windows PC without internet these days? Almost everything needs and internet connection, and many applications want an account. So having one (more) account and set it all up with an MS account makes life easier. 

no theory about it, windows does do this, the internet connection requirement is what you disable to install without a MS account and use just a local account
this used to be as simple as clicking, "i don't have internet" but they removed that making it more difficult in recent updates
luckily it is simple to bypass, OOBE\\BYPASSNRO via CMD during install
you would be surprised how many do this, again, we are not the same.

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, patman30 said:

My drives are not old, we are not the same.

 

no theory about it, windows does do this, the internet connection requirement is what you disable to install without a MS account and use just a local account
this used to be as simple as clicking, "i don't have internet" but they removed that making it more difficult in recent updates
luckily it is simple to bypass, OOBE\\BYPASSNRO via CMD during install
you would be surprised how many do this, again, we are not the same.

I don't want to be the same.

And I care about privacy.

But I don't try to avoid what is impossible to avoid. Any PC which I used and installed for others in that last 10 years or more was connected to the internet. Updates, mail, www, whatever. It's impossible to lock down the system and keep everything private - except by disconnecting it from the internet and never connecting it.

So, what exactly do you win by installing Windows without MS account? Maybe it makes you feel better, but that's about all. 

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

There is absolutely no issues with Windows 11 Pro (Licensed).

 

But for whom? You, at least. Perhaps it's rather like my enjoying living in Pattaya. Some posters here have problems with Pattaya, for some reason, LOL.

 

Disagreements abound. Simply as a matter of education, you might read

 

Why is Windows 11 so annoying?

 

And the comments on the above here on reddit.

 

People say stuff like:

 

I've been using Windows 11 since July 2021 (leaked ISO, insider channel)

 

My experience (as a lifelong Windows user, Windows 10 insider since 2015. and C# dev):

 

    Explorer is slow, half-baked and still bugged out
    Battery life is horrible, performance is even worse (10th gen ultrabook)
    Task manager is a XAML+win32 frankenstein abomination that's barely cobbled together - works like a potato
    AntimalwareServiceExecutable is still a CPU hog
    UX is worse, important menus are hidden away
    The redesign is extremely inconsistent and still not unified after more than two years
    Some design elements are already outdated
    Microsoft Store has no real apps to offer, you still have to download them through 3rd party websites
    Search is still an absolute joke and doesn't work (full of ads and garbage)
    High DPI font rendering still isn't on par with macOS
    Stable feature updates come once in a blue moon
    PC wakes up at random times to update, mostly at night, loses hibernated state, and stays turned on
    Modern Standby is cancerous to troubleshoot (laptop turns on in backpack at random times, overheats, spins the fans and drains the whole battery)
    The list goes on and on

 

and

 

Mine is constantly broken.

Windows store doesn't work. As such, I cannot use photos, the new notepad, snipping tool, whatever.

I had to do weird workarounds to disable the damn desktop being on onedrive.

I hate how much crap I need to do to reach the settings I care about. The right click context menu is pissing me off big time.

Explorer is a bloody mess. Going from my SSD 😄 drive from my HDD d: drive usually freezes my pc and my HDD is actually good.

It's just incredibly obtuse and annoying.

 

This leaves out Edge constantly trying to take over, Search going out to the internet, Cortana, the ads, the new taskbar limitations, the extra clicks required everywhere, your data being uploaded to OneDrive whether you like it or not. No, I don't need or want a M'soft account, don't wanna be signed in all the time or ever and depend on it.

 

A tutorial on the basics of taming it for civilized use, improving the dumbed-down workflow:

 

How to make Windows 11 more usable, less annoying

 

And that's w/o some helpful third-party utilities, except free Open-Shell.

 

So Win 11 is certainly usable, is going to be around for quite a while, and has some good new features that may or may not be implemented on Win 10 or as well on Win 10, IF you need or want them.

 

I happen not to need any of the new features. I also don't want the bother of setting up Win 11 and dealing with its issues, having done so already with Win 10 (which has some of the same). Is there life after Win 10? I keep a foot in Linux as well. But Win 10 will be still be usable for years after EOL anyway. We'll see what Win 11 becomes . . . .

 

Oh--I also don't need to feel all hi tech and cutting edge.🤣

 

Edited June 11 by BigStar

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, ravip said:

Surprisingly, crap works well on millions of PC's.

Did Vista work well for you? 

 

Surprisingly, it didn't work well on millions of PC's, so it soon became Windows 7. 

[patman30]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't want to be the same.

And I care about privacy.

But I don't try to avoid what is impossible to avoid. Any PC which I used and installed for others in that last 10 years or more was connected to the internet. Updates, mail, www, whatever. It's impossible to lock down the system and keep everything private - except by disconnecting it from the internet and never connecting it.

So, what exactly do you win by installing Windows without MS account? Maybe it makes you feel better, but that's about all. 

i will type it again more slowly for you
the internet requirement is what you bypass to install with just a local account and not a MS account
i care about privacy
i do not want to use an MS account for login or even just install,
i do not want to have to unlock my MS account whenever they choose to lock it,
which i have had a gazillion times over many years when they deem my activity as suspicious
if i do not want to use a MS account, i should not have too (and i don't)
there are also many people that do use computers offline for whatever reasons
again and thankfully
we are not the same.
 

Edited June 11 by patman30

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, patman30 said:

which i have had a gazillion times over many years when they deem my activity as suspicious

It seems you do a lot of suspicious things. Gazillion times. Wow, that's really impressive.

 

14 minutes ago, patman30 said:

again and thankfully
we are not the same.

 

I agree.

[ravip]

21 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Did Vista work well for you? 

 

Surprisingly, it didn't work well on millions of PC's, so it soon became Windows 7. 

Never tried Windows ME & Vista.

[ravip]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:20 AM, BigStar said:

 

But for whom? You, at least. Perhaps it's rather like my enjoying living in Pattaya. Some posters here have problems with Pattaya, for some reason, LOL.

 

Disagreements abound. Simply as a matter of education, you might read

 

Why is Windows 11 so annoying?

 

And the comments on the above here on reddit.

 

People say stuff like:

 

I've been using Windows 11 since July 2021 (leaked ISO, insider channel)

 

My experience (as a lifelong Windows user, Windows 10 insider since 2015. and C# dev):

 

    Explorer is slow, half-baked and still bugged out
    Battery life is horrible, performance is even worse (10th gen ultrabook)
    Task manager is a XAML+win32 frankenstein abomination that's barely cobbled together - works like a potato
    AntimalwareServiceExecutable is still a CPU hog
    UX is worse, important menus are hidden away
    The redesign is extremely inconsistent and still not unified after more than two years
    Some design elements are already outdated
    Microsoft Store has no real apps to offer, you still have to download them through 3rd party websites
    Search is still an absolute joke and doesn't work (full of ads and garbage)
    High DPI font rendering still isn't on par with macOS
    Stable feature updates come once in a blue moon
    PC wakes up at random times to update, mostly at night, loses hibernated state, and stays turned on
    Modern Standby is cancerous to troubleshoot (laptop turns on in backpack at random times, overheats, spins the fans and drains the whole battery)
    The list goes on and on

 

and

 

Mine is constantly broken.

Windows store doesn't work. As such, I cannot use photos, the new notepad, snipping tool, whatever.

I had to do weird workarounds to disable the damn desktop being on onedrive.

I hate how much crap I need to do to reach the settings I care about. The right click context menu is pissing me off big time.

Explorer is a bloody mess. Going from my SSD 😄 drive from my HDD d: drive usually freezes my pc and my HDD is actually good.

It's just incredibly obtuse and annoying.

 

This leaves out Edge constantly trying to take over, Search going out to the internet, Cortana, the ads, the new taskbar limitations, the extra clicks required everywhere, your data being uploaded to OneDrive whether you like it or not. No, I don't need or want a M'soft account, don't wanna be signed in all the time or ever and depend on it.

 

A tutorial on the basics of taming it for civilized use, improving the dumbed-down workflow:

 

How to make Windows 11 more usable, less annoying

 

And that's w/o some helpful third-party utilities, except free Open-Shell.

 

So Win 11 is certainly usable, is going to be around for quite a while, and has some good new features that may or may not be implemented on Win 10 or as well on Win 10, IF you need or want them.

 

I happen not to need any of the new features. I also don't want the bother of setting up Win 11 and dealing with its issues, having done so already with Win 10 (which has some of the same). Is there life after Win 10? I keep a foot in Linux as well. But Win 10 will be still be usable for years after EOL anyway. We'll see what Win 11 becomes . . . .

 

Oh--I also don't need to feel all hi tech and cutting edge.🤣

 

Well... I guess, nothing is perfect on this planet. So lets whimper at every single thing that we come across along the pathway of life! Kind of makes lfe 'adventurous"