Thailand's reversal on cannabis serves as a warning

[sumaterani]

22 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Marijuana does indeed have an effect on users mental health and it does cause paranoia , that is a fact and its not myself being ignorant 

 

Can you be more specific what mental health and probably the data about paranoia, please?

 

As far as I read some scientific journals, recent studies have concluded that ganja may help people with: Anxiety disorder, Insomnia, Bipolar disorder, PTSD and Schizophrenia.

Edited May 19 by sumaterani

[Smilin in Thailand]

This has nothing to do with health concerns.    A few kids getting too high from edibles and going to the hospital to spend the night and wake up perfectly fine is not a health crisis.

 

The problems caused by alcohol and tobacco eclipse those caused by cannabis,  it's like Mount Everest vs. a mole hill.

 

This is about money and power.      Marijuana legalization deeply threatens the establishment.   It's a disruptive game changer.

 

And given how incredibly corrupt the establishment has become,  I say:   BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MangoKorat]

The old school farmer's will be happy if and when its re-criminalised - prices will go up. That will not only be beneficial to the farmers.

 

As a long term supporter of cannabis and of being in charge of what I put in my body, I have to admit that there is a case for some form of regulation.  The later strains of cannabis can contain THC levels of over 30% and its been proven that using product with that strength is having an adverse effect of the mental health of the young. I'm not talking about Paranoia - that has long been associated with weed and if that's how it affects you, maybe its best not to smoke it?  Recent European studies have found large increases of psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia in the young.  Although with adults, even the worst cases usually pass in a month or so, young, developing brains can be permanently damaged. I watched an unbiased documentary on the subject and have to admit that the evidence was overwhelming.

 

I'm not at all sure that such strenghts are available in Thailand but in the UK, the stronger it is, the higher the price.  A rise in price in Thailand may help keep the stronger varieties out of the reach of the young so recriminalisation may have an unintended beneficial effect.

 

With the proviso of 'as long as it does not affect others', I still believe that I should be allowed to choose what I put into my body but in the light of the evidence I've seen, I think that some form of protection for the young is vital.

[JackGats]

So the young are at risk from cannabis.

 

10 million young Thais riding motorbikes without a helmet or a driving license is ok though. 

[sumaterani]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

The old school farmer's will be happy if and when its re-criminalised - prices will go up. That will not only be beneficial to the farmers.

 

What logic is this? where they sell if it's a crime? duh, please explain.

 

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

The later strains of cannabis can contain THC levels of over 30% and its been proven that using product with that strength is having an adverse effect of the mental health of the young. I'm not talking about Paranoia - that has long been associated with weed and if that's how it affects you, maybe its best not to smoke it?  Recent European studies have found large increases of psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia in the young.  Although with adults, even the worst cases usually pass in a month or so, young, developing brains can be permanently damaged. I watched an unbiased documentary on the subject and have to admit that the evidence was overwhelming.

 

You mean paranoia like the fear that the youngsters feel they are gonna be jailed by the police and it ruined their whole future life because it's a crime? like the way it applies in all third world countries?

 

I've been searching for scientific evidence or data about these "adverse mental health problem" but can only found some paradox and fallacy in critical thinking. 

 

I don't know, I'm not sure which one who has more paranoia, those who want to criminalize because it's a completely harmless species, or those who responsibly smoke the businesses high by the rule of law because they are completely grown up adult.

 

Can't help myself 😅

 

[Smilin in Thailand]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

Although with adults, even the worst cases usually pass in a month or so, young, developing brains can be permanently damaged. I watched an unbiased documentary on the subject and have to admit that the evidence was overwhelming.

 

That's really the crux of the anti-weed argument.     They really pour it on.    Weed will turn those poor young developing brains into mush:  just a bunch of drooling morons all because of weed.

 

What a complete crock of utter BS.

 

How do I know?    Been a user since 12 years of age.    Used it all of my life and now I am a very successful, very engaged and very happy user in my 50's   enjoying a little of the leaf later in the day for relaxation.

 

You will find loads like me,  all well adjusted, bright, even brilliant users of Cannabis making amazing contributions to society - not drunk, alcoholic, smoking, abusive, loud, obnoxious fools.

 

And what's more?  It has kept me away from being a Big Pharma dope addict, and that is priceless.

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, Smilin in Thailand said:

 

That's really the crux of the anti-weed argument.     They really pour it on.    Weed will turn those poor young developing brains into mush:  just a bunch of drooling morons all because of weed.

 

What a complete crock of utter BS.

 

How do I know?    Been a user since 12 years of age.    Used it all of my life and now I am a very successful, very engaged and very happy user in my 50's   enjoying a little of the leaf later in the day for relaxation.

 

You will find loads like me,  all well adjusted, bright, even brilliant users of Cannabis making amazing contributions to society - not drunk, alcoholic, smoking, abusive, loud, obnoxious fools.

 

And what's more?  It has kept me away from being a Big Pharma dope addict, and that is priceless.

 

 

 

So you're a doctor?

 

Millions of people smoke cigarettes, they don't all get cancer.

 

The documentary I saw was not biased at all and in fact, came down on the side of legalising cannabis (it remains illegal in the UK).

 

You may have been a user all your life but I very much doubt you were smoking 30% + THC weed when you were a kid - and that is what the doctors and scientists were saying.  They didn't come acrosss the problems they are seeing previously - it is only since the high THC varieties became popular in the UK that these problems showed up.

 

Believe me, if you'd seen some of the kids affected, you would accept that there are problems.

Edited May 19 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, sumaterani said:

I've been searching for scientific evidence or data about these "adverse mental health problem" but can only found some paradox and fallacy in critical thinking. 

Then I suggest you work on your ability to search.  Google will do the hard work for you.

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, sumaterani said:

What logic is this? where they sell if it's a crime? duh, please explain.

You don't understand why a product that is illegal is more expensive than one that's legal?

 

Have you not seen what happened to weed prices in Thailand since 'legalisation'?

 

Maybe time you gave up smoking weed.

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, JackGats said:

So the young are at risk from cannabis.

 

10 million young Thais riding motorbikes without a helmet or a driving license is ok though. 

It has never been OK - its just something that is rarely enforced and when enforcement does take place, it is more for the benefit of those doing the enforcing and too little to be preventative.

 

There is nothing to say that if/when cannabis is recriminalised in Thailand, that the law on that will be enforced either.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Quite a few western countries that liberalized the substance, turned back and stopped as it generated many other societal problems on their streets.

[MangoKorat]

The price of cannabis also determines who is able to buy it.  Weed in the UK was, for many years, grown mostly be locals with relatively small grows.  Good quality weed was, until around 5 years ago, bringing £170 - £200 per ounce (to the grower).

 

Then the Albanians, having taken over the UK's cocaine market, moved in to cannabis and dropped grower prices to around £100 per ounce - with an obvious knock-on to street prices.  Local growers, not prepared to risk jail for that price, got out of the business.

 

Hence, the product is now within the grasp of much younger buyers which is probably why we are seeing an increase in psychiatric problems amongst the young.

 

Cannabis prices in Thailand have fallen through the floor since 'decriminalisation' - which could be why there are so many reports of youngsters there smoking it - and the associated reports of social problems.

[Trippy]

15 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Quite a few western countries that liberalized the substance, turned back and stopped as it generated many other societal problems on their streets.

Can you give a few examples?

[sumaterani]

54 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

You don't understand why a product that is illegal is more expensive than one that's legal?

 

Have you not seen what happened to weed prices in Thailand since 'legalisation'?

 

Maybe time you gave up smoking weed.

 

I think you have problem with logical and reasonable thinking; if not because your love for complete bull<deleted>.

You can't think If I stop smoking weed, then I would know the illegal price. Ridiculous much.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2016/11/16/illegal-drugs-price-potency/

 

 

56 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Then I suggest you work on your ability to search.  Google will do the hard work for you.

 

Again, because you can't provide real evidence, a legitimate information or valid knowledge to believe.

 

All you have got is make belief and it's not smart at all. I suggest you to learn logic and evidence based critical thinking 👍🏻

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

The price of cannabis also determines who is able to buy it.  Weed in the UK was, for many years, grown mostly be locals with relatively small grows.  Good quality weed was, until around 5 years ago, bringing £170 - £200 per ounce (to the grower).

 

Then the Albanians, having taken over the UK's cocaine market, moved in to cannabis and dropped grower prices to around £100 per ounce - with an obvious knock-on to street prices.  Local growers, not prepared to risk jail for that price, got out of the business.

 

Hence, the product is now within the grasp of much younger buyers which is probably why we are seeing an increase in psychiatric problems amongst the young.

 

Cannabis prices in Thailand have fallen through the floor since 'decriminalisation' - which could be why there are so many reports of youngsters there smoking it - and the associated reports of social problems.

I smoked loads before it was legal, 100gm brick by post 400bht. After it was legal 600bht.

 

Back in the UK (2008) had some pals who rented a house then grew in every room. When caught, community service plus loss of crop, no jail.

 

Cannabis was smoked, sold, traded in almost every pub 'smoking shed' that I visited.

 

When stopped by police, if you had a bag on you, you just said personal use, they would hand it back, and off you went.

Edited May 19 by BritManToo

[still kicking]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:38 AM, bob smith said:

trash article.

 

they always use protecting the youth as their modus operandi when it comes to drugs other than fags and booze.

 

nanny deep-state rears her ugly head once again..

 

bob

Oh no Nanny states are only western states according to most posters.

[Jingthing]

On 5/18/2024 at 2:17 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Marijuana does indeed have an effect on users mental health and it does cause paranoia , that is a fact and its not myself being ignorant 

It causes paranoia in some people.

If so, then stop. It's not physically addictive after all You can't die of a THC overdose.

Like anything else, how about treating people as flippin' adults?!?

[MangoKorat]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Back in the UK (2008) had some pals who rented a house then grew in every room. When caught, community service plus loss of crop, no jail.

Then they were very lucky, although I'm almost certain you've missed a little bit off that, it would be extremely rare for them to have only got community service - almost certainly accompanied by a suspended sentence. Loss of crop is not part of the criminal sentence - it comes later in the proceeds of crime hearing.  If your mates had any money a Proceeds of Crime investigation would follow the criminal case at which time they would be ordered to pay sums equal to what the police 'think' they'd earned based on the evidence available.  If the defendants don't appear to have any money, they don't usually bother with that.

 

Two of my mates got jail - one got 4 years, first offence, mind you he did have 1200 plants (various stages).  Another got 2 years for 36 flowering plants, 36 vegging plants and 200 live cuttings.  Jail in the UK very much depends on the area and how much space there is in the prisons.  Judges are regularly told to only send the most serious cases to jail as they are full.

[MangoKorat]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

When stopped by police, if you had a bag on you, you just said personal use, they would hand it back, and off you went.

That I very much doubt.  Quite often sent on your way without charge but handing it back?  The police officer himself would be facing a charge for that.

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, sumaterani said:

Again, because you can't provide real evidence, a legitimate information or valid knowledge to believe.

 

All you have got is make belief and it's not smart at all. I suggest you to learn logic and evidence based critical thinking

I was telling you to do the search yourself but it was clear from your first reply that you would simply say any evidence is just BS.  Tell me, what's the point in arguing with a closed mind? You most likely wouldn't believe it if it happened to a relative.

 

I have stated that I am a cannabis suporter but my mind, regarding the effects on young people, was changed by the EVIDENCE I saw on a totally unbiased documentary.  I have my views but what makes us different is that I don't have a closed mind. People used to think the world was flat - clearly some still do.

 

I repeat, if you want to read the evidence, do a google search on the subject.  There are literally hundreds of studies and their results available. I'm not going to waste my time posting evidence for someone who wouldn't believe it, no matter how strong it is.

 

 

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, sumaterani said:

You can't think If I stop smoking weed, then I would know the illegal price. Ridiculous much.

I am or was 'connected' with the industry both in the UK and Thailand - I'm not about to elaborate on how but I still know people who are in the business.  A mate in Thailand has run a very big grow for many years and he can't wait for it to be made illegal again.  His prices have dropped over 50% since 'legalisation' - not my words, his.

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Back in the UK (2008) had some pals who rented a house then grew in every room. When caught, community service plus loss of crop, no jail.

https://www.warwickshire.police.uk/news/warwickshire/news/2023/july/cannabis-farmer-sentenced-to-28-months-in-prison/

 

https://www.essex.police.uk/news/essex/news/news/2024/march/southend-man-jailed-following-investigation-into-cannabis-farm/

 

Just a couple, there are hundreds.

 

The sentencing guidelines for all cannabis related offfences changed in 2012 with much lesser sentences for simple possesion for example, being handed out.  However in recent years the sentences for 'Production of a Class B Drug' have been increased in some cases - in particular, through 'case law' arising from an appeal court decision in 2011.

 

That decision sort of 'threw the cat among the pigeons' for a while until the new guidelines came out.  Basically they now target commercial growers.

 

https://www.release.org.uk/blog/how-do-new-sentencing-guidelines-impact-cannabis-offences

 

The approach these days is to be lenient with users and small 'home growers' but harsher with commercial growers. Again though, as its a non violent offence, the state of the prison population plays heavily on the sentencing rates.

Edited May 19 by MangoKorat

[0ffshore360]

3 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Quite a few western countries that liberalized the substance, turned back and stopped as it generated many other societal problems on their streets.

Can you name them please?

 

[0ffshore360]

24 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I am or was 'connected' with the industry both in the UK and Thailand - I'm not about to elaborate on how but I still know people who are in the business.  A mate in Thailand has run a very big grow for many years and he can't wait for it to be made illegal again.  His prices have dropped over 50% since 'legalisation' - not my words, his.

I can believe that. In my younger years I was more or less permanently  stoned to some degree. It never inhibited my occupation or promotions  in that field of occupation.

Eventually however the  stimulus/ appeal thereof wore off and it became nothing more than a sedative. That was a sort of  relief from the underlying stress due to the illegality aspect. Yet in all the time I was a habitual user I was constantly made aware of the more dangerous effects of alternatives such as cocaine and acid tabs which I never felt any need to experiment with.

Here in Thailand I  have seen how meth, crack, or whatever insidious chemical named poisons  have damaged so many because  marijuana is too detectable by comparison.

And so it was  with  acid that was popularized before made illegal due to the long term  effects and hospitalization of many victims.

I have often thought about what has happened to the  price of crack or Yah bah since the relaxation of cannabis regulations?

I would almost bet it rapidly  became much  cheaper too.

Vested interest in a product is invariably  boosted by "banning" and so too prodct in competition.

Let the demotivated sector be happy with  cannabis. It is a better option to crazed crack heads or  manic  coke freaks !

 

[NorthernRyland]

5 hours ago, Smilin in Thailand said:

That's really the crux of the anti-weed argument.     They really pour it on.    Weed will turn those poor young developing brains into mush:  just a bunch of drooling morons all because of weed.

 

I hate weed with a passion makes me feel psychotic, so I refuse to use it, very simple. Hopefully it's clear to people if it doesn't agree with them and they can simply not use. Doesn't mean the rest of the people shouldn't get to enjoy it.

[NorthernRyland]

15 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

I was constantly made aware of the more dangerous effects of alternatives such as cocaine and acid tabs which I never felt any need to experiment with.

When I was in high school I had a friend have a psychotic break on acid and he's now severely mentally ill and can not live a normal life. We all did it and my dad was ok with this (an old time hippy) but I always warn people against the stuff. Sure nothing may happen but it's not like any other drugs which unless you overdose will be fine the next day. There's some chance of permanent damage and it's simply a gamble, not about the dose, just your own body. Very scary stuff if you ask me.

[sumaterani]

32 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I hate weed with a passion makes me feel psychotic, so I refuse to use it, very simple. Hopefully it's clear to people if it doesn't agree with them and they can simply not use. Doesn't mean the rest of the people shouldn't get to enjoy it.

Fair play, that kinda freedom spirit is liberating, thanks

 

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

I repeat, if you want to read the evidence, do a google search on the subject.  There are literally hundreds of studies and their results available. I'm not going to waste my time posting evidence for someone who wouldn't believe it, no matter how strong it is.

 

I didn't say I didn't google, I did, I have been googling but couldn't find a legitimate one to make up your point.

 

Here's an example of bull**** journal in the name of science on Google first page

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/marijuana-use-and-its-effects

 

It simply conclude "cannabis can be addictive" while asserting tenth other journals without pointing out which part specifically. I mean, wtf I have been smoking pot for 34 years with many on-offs as easy as changing my clothes whenever I want to, not even slightest headache occured.

So most probably it's not weed that's harmful, but the person who smoke it has conditions which don't allow it, that's why age restriction is put in place should be enough to filter the responsibility. I suppose we both know this. Cannabis is notoriously harmless.

 

All I'm saying is that if you really have evidence so you can prove the validity that cannabis is a real threat to mental health, then I'm open to change my stance for good

Edited May 19 by sumaterani

[Tropicalevo]

2 hours ago, sumaterani said:

Cannabis is notoriously harmless.

 

All I'm saying is that if you really have evidence so you can prove the validity that cannabis is a real threat to mental health, then I'm open to change my stance for good

Depends on your search criteria.

If you do not want to find it. you probably won't.

Just the first example of many.....

 

Researchers found strong evidence of an association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia among men and women,

 

https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/2023/05/young-men-at-highest-risk-schizophrenia-linked-with-cannabis-use-disorder

 

I suppose that the deniers would ague that if you have schizophrenia then you can both enjoy a toke. 

[Smilin in Thailand]

Sounds like these kids already had a problem if they were psychologically addicted to weed.     Could it be a broken home?   An abusive alcoholic father?   Just not fitting in at school?

 

Yeah, growing up can be tough.    We all have been through such trials and tribulations in one form or another, some more than others, and these kids used weed to escape.

 

What if they had used alcohol instead?  Many do.   Any reader here can probably recount a tragedy caused by that, but they'd be hard pressed to remember one caused by weed.

 

And, by the way, did our fearless Danish researchers (hopefully not in the pay of Big Pharma, but that is very difficult to avoid in this world)  look into correlating these cases with social, familial forces that may have had a significant impact:   like Dad getting wasted and beatin' up Mom every Friday night?

 

If you focus a search light on a subject your going to find cracks.    There can be no doubt that obsessive behavior is detrimental.    How about junk food?   I knew a guy with Attention Deficit Disorder,   didn't like weed but ate nothing but candy and junk food (probably the cause of the ADD).    That crap is toxic as hell, but it's perfectly legal.     No studies from Danish people in lab coats taking back pay from Big Pharma (LOL).      No 15 year jail terms if you are caught on the bus with pockets full of Snickers bars and Hostess Potato chips.    Nope, you can stuff that into you until you explode.

 

There was once this thing called prohibition.    Didn't last very long.   Led to some of the worst criminal activity of the era.     Thailand appears to be gearing up for that as we speak.    Can we spare these good people the inevitable pain and suffering it will cause?

 

The young need to be educated and steered into productive healthy lives.     Everyone has their own path and should be able to find it without coercion and force.     And, yes, if you know someone with an obsessive disorder of any kind, including weed, reach out to them and help.   

 

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, sumaterani said:

It simply conclude "cannabis can be addictive" while asserting tenth other journals without pointing out which part specifically. I mean, wtf I have been smoking pot for 34 years with many on-offs as easy as changing my clothes whenever I want to, not even slightest headache occured.

So most probably it's not weed that's harmful, but the person who smoke it has conditions which don't allow it, that's why age restriction is put in place should be enough to filter the responsibility. I suppose we both know this. Cannabis is notoriously harmless.

I was not and never have, referred to addiction. I've never subscribed to that one. The current problem is mental damage to those with brains that have not yet fully developed.

 

Having been a supporter all my life and never believing any of the rubbish put out by many of the world's governments, I began to have doubts a few years ago following reports of psychiatric problems.  The reports were not regarding cannabis in general but specifically the newer, high THC 'Cali' strains and their effects on people who started smoking those strains regularly whilst they were young.  I then saw the documentary that I have mentioned - which again was specifically reporting on the same, very high THC strains.  The unbiased way that the reporting was carried out and the scientific explanations convinced me that those strains could indeed be harmful to young people.

 

My 13 year old grandson has smoked weed and tells me his mates at school are regular users. I put that down to the lower prices that have become the norm in the UK after the Albanians took over much of the trade.  No way could I, at 13 years old, have afforded to smoke weed at the prices it was back then.  Also, and I know this for a fact, young customers are not interested in just getting high, having a laugh or just a good time on weed - they are not happy if they don't get 'off their heads' on it.

 

I don't smoke weed myself these days - simply because after quite a few years of no adverse effects, it started making me paranoid - every time.  No idea why, it just did so I stopped.  However, when I did smoke it I wasn't looking for what these kids are looking for and neither was anyone I knew.  I don't see the point of whatever they get from it if they can't remember it the next day. The product has changed and the reasons for using it have too.  Its also a fact that you build up a tolerance to it after many years of smoking - you might not notice the increased strength of the more popular strains so much because no doubt you will have built up such a tolerance.

 

You suggest yourself that the problems could be down to the user and you are probably right - I seem to remember the documentary stating that it didn't affect all youngsters in the same way but so what?  If the product is now available to and being used by very young kids and does cause the harmful effects that are being reported - even to just some of them, should we not try to prevent such youngsters from having access to it? Or should we say, "oh, it only harms 10% of them so leave it, its fine"?

 

Young, developing brains are at risk in many ways and from the reports I've seen, I'm happy that measures should be taken to try and prevent it being available to youngsters.  What might achieve that is to dish out far higher sentences for the production/supply of high THC strains.  Sorting out who has and who does not have access to such strains would be impossible and I simply don't see the need for such high THC levels. In my opinion, there is a case for regarding these higher THC strains as deserving of a higher classification.  Faced with much higher sentences for producing/supplying weed with over, say 20% THC, growers might think again before producing it.  I know of quite a few dealers that only sell weed and not on any moral grounds, they are simply out to make money but aren't prepared to take the risk of the much higher sentences they would get if caught selling Class A for example. That would also have te effect of pushing up the prices of the higher THC varieties which would make them out of reach for most of the youngsters currently buying weed

 

Its like a race out there at the moment with seed banks and growers competing to see just how far over 30% THC they can go. It just not necessary.

 

Someone on here a few weeks ago was suggesting that its OK to drive when you've smoked weed.  I'd suggest that that person has never tried any of the high THC strains.  The very thought of anyone driving in the states I've seen some people in after smoking these days worries the hell out of me.