Study: COVID Still Deadlier Than the Flu -- But the Gap Is Narrowing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

U.S. Veterans Affairs study finds 35% higher mortality rate in COVID hospitalized patients

 

Patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were more likely to die than those hospitalized with influenza during the fall and winter of 2023-2024, according to an analysis of Veterans Affairs data.

 

Among over 11,000 patients hospitalized for either illness during this past fall and winter, 5.7% of patients with COVID-19 died within 30 days of admission versus 4.24% of patients with influenza, reported Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, of the VA St. Louis Health Care System, and colleagues.

 

After adjusting for variables, the risk of death in people hospitalized for COVID-19 was 35% higher (adjusted HR 1.35, 95% CI 1.10-1.66), the authors detailed in a research letter in JAMA.

 

Al-Aly told MedPage Today that his group was actually surprised by the results. "We pretty much bought into the public narrative and drank the Kool-Aid like everybody, thinking that COVID is no longer [more deadly than the flu], although ... there was no data," he said. "But the verdict is out now, because we've analyzed the data from the 2023-2024 COVID season and clearly COVID mortality is still higher than the flu."

 

(more)

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/generalinfectiousdisease/110126

 

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2818660

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

Strange, while I have no problem getting my yearly flu vaccines at my hospital. I get sheepish "no haves" when I ask for a Covid booster. Those tempted by this new religion should bear in mind that anti-vaxing can kill. 

[Amethyst]

Several diversionary posts unrelated to the thread topic have been removed.

 

[BigBruv]

14 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Strange, while I have no problem getting my yearly flu vaccines at my hospital. I get sheepish "no haves" when I ask for a Covid booster.

 

Wonder how you survive

 

14 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

 

Those tempted by this new religion should bear in mind that anti-vaxing can kill. 

 

Not sure about that but pro-vaxxing has proven to be deadly in some cases

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds

 

[Ben Zioner]

11 hours ago, BigBruv said:

Not sure about that but pro-vaxxing has proven to be deadly in some cases

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds

Yes, yes, thanks for your study proven by a sample of one, while:

 

"Deaths linked to the clots are even rarer. There have been 72 deaths in the UK after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Dr Alison Cave, the chief safety officer with the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency which approves vaccines for use in the UK, said the benefits of Covid jabs outweighed the risks and urged people to come forward for vaccination if they are eligible. She said: “Lisa Shaw’s death is tragic and our thoughts are with her family."

[BigBruv]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Yes, yes, thanks for your study proven by a sample of one, while:

 

"Deaths linked to the clots are even rarer. There have been 72 deaths in the UK after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Dr Alison Cave, the chief safety officer with the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency which approves vaccines for use in the UK, said the benefits of Covid jabs outweighed the risks and urged people to come forward for vaccination if they are eligible. She said: “Lisa Shaw’s death is tragic and our thoughts are with her family."

 

I'm happy for you to keep on taking boosters.

They are safe and effective and it's in society's interest that you stay up to date 👍

[Ben Zioner]

Just now, BigBruv said:

 

I'm happy for you to keep on taking boosters.

They are safe and effective and it's in society's interest that you stay up to date 👍

Where do you get them?

[BigBruv]

9 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Where do you get them?

 

TJinBKK is best placed to advise you on that - maybe you could inbox him

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Where do you get them?

 

 

[In Full Agreement]

 

 

Are booster shots available in Pattaya?

[Longwood50]

From 2020 until about 2022 Covid dominated the news.  We got death counts second by second and Nostradamus like predictions of the impeding end of human life. 

I said at the time.  It is a virus.  The world has never been able to stop the spread of virus infections.  This one was no different.  We are now finding out that the "cure" or "prevention" with the vaccines as should be expected had its own unintended negative side effects. 

In the end Sweden who did absolutely nothing had lower cases per million than neighboring Finland, and Norway who were widely praised in the beginning for their tight Covid precautions. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

 

Are booster shots available in Pattaya?

 

You might try asking your regional MoPH office there...  or calling the MoPH COVID hotline at 1422... Last time I checked with them a month ago, the MoPH folks in BKK didn't know of any specific availability outside of BKK.... 

 

But, private hospitals now DO have the ability to obtain the new COVID vaccines and provide them for a fee -- if they want to... Even if the Thai government isn't doing so. Bumrungrad and Praram 9 hospitals are doing so in BKK.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

"Deaths linked to the clots are even rarer. There have been 72 deaths in the UK after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

Also worth noting to put those numbers in greater context:

 

COVID thus far has killed more than 232,000 people in the UK.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

 

And, COVID vaccines are estimated to have saved about 400,000 lives just in England.

 

https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2024/04/16/whos-eligible-for-the-2024-covid-19-vaccine-or-spring-booster/

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

In the end Sweden who did absolutely nothing had lower cases per million than neighboring Finland, and Norway who were widely praised in the beginning for their tight Covid precautions. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

It's a dubious claim that Sweden did well during the pandemic:

 

Scathing evaluation of Sweden's COVID response reveals 'failures' to control the virus

"As a result, Sweden had a higher COVID death rate than the surrounding Nordic nations.

 

"The Swedish response to this pandemic was unique and characterised by a morally, ethically, and scientifically questionable laissez-faire approach, a consequence of structural problems in the society," the team wrote.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scathing-evaluation-swedens-covid-response-reveals-failures-control/story?id=83644832

 

Claim: "No-lockdown Sweden fared better than the UK"

Verdict: It's true that Sweden has had a lower Covid death rate than the UK, but it has fared significantly worse than its neighbours, all of which had tighter initial lockdown restrictions.

 

Many people opposed to Covid restrictions point to the example of Sweden, a country which at the beginning of the pandemic avoided introducing a compulsory lockdown, and instead issued voluntary distancing advice.

...

When compared to other Scandinavian countries with similar population profiles, Sweden has fared much worse and recorded a significantly higher number of deaths than its neighbours, all of which have had tougher restrictions during much of the pandemic."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/55949640

 

[Amethyst]

The thread here is not about how Sweden fared during the pandemic, nor about so-called lockdown policies. Further off-topic posts will be removed.

[spidermike007]

Is there any hysteria about road deaths and the highway patrol's absolute refusal to patrol the highways to insure safety? 

 

Was there any hysteria about the recent burning season, which was the worst in memory? 

 

No. Why? For one, they did not have huge Big Pharma companies with an agenda. 

 

I would not put another baht into their pockets, unless this was more comparable to smallpox...

[KhunLA]

Here's some interesting numbers, world deaths 2019-2023, inclusive.

Using 2019 as a baseline, before the virus took off.

Take note, the vaccines came on board at the end of 2020.

 

So we have the base, 'excess deaths' unvaccinated and excess deaths after vaccine available.

year / deaths / excess over 2019

2019 / 57.94M / baseline

2020 / 63.17M / 5.23 excess deaths

2021 / 69.25M / 11.31 when vaccines distributed

2022 / 67.10M /   9.16

2023 / 61.00M /  3.06 getting back closer  to baseline

 

Read into those numbers what, as  have my opinion

Source for 2019/2020/2021 #s, simply googled 'world death #s' for 2022 & 2023

and all ball park enough.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You seem surprised that COVID killed a lot of people, millions of people, especially during (1) early 2021 before vaccines were widely available and then later in 2021 and into 2022 with the arrival of (2) the more deadly Delta and (3) far more transmissible Omicron variants.

 

WORLD:

 

Source:

 

UNITED STATES:

 

Source:

 

The U.S. Census Bureau below did a good job of explaining what happened when and why because of seasonality and the new COVID variants that emerged (though the U.S. timeline diverges somewhat from the world timeline):

Pandemic Disrupted Historical Mortality Patterns, Caused Largest Jump in Deaths in 100 Years

...

"Throughout 2020, as mandates changed and more became known about the virus, we saw spikes and dips in deaths that reached a peak by November and December during the holiday and winter months, when people were more likely to gather indoors.

 

Deaths began to drop In January 2021. By April that year, the United States saw a decline in deaths corresponding to increases in vaccinations. And that June, death levels returned to near June 2019 levels.

 

This decline was short-lived, though, as the Delta variant caused another spike in deaths in July and August. Deaths dropped slightly in the fall, but then the Omicron variant emerged just as holiday travel picked up in December 2021."

 

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/united-states-deaths-spiked-as-covid-19-continued.html

 

All well-documented and explained many times before.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And the broader global perspective:

Just How Do Deaths Due to COVID-19 Stack Up?

Despite a likely undercount in many places, COVID is among the leading causes of death in most countries

...

"Despite improved treatment and the growing, albeit inequitable, availability of vaccines and therapeutics for COVID-19, 2021 was its deadliest year. About 3.9 million COVID-19 deaths occurred in 2021, representing about half of all COVID-19 deaths from 2020-2022. This is probably related to the emergence of the delta variant, which was much more likely to lead to fatal outcomes compared to the ancestral variant, and the omicron variant, which despite being less severe than the ancestral variant is  more transmissible. [emphasis added]

 

Despite the relaxing of mitigation measures and the expiration of some public health emergency orders, 2022 had the fewest annual deaths from COVID, about 1.3 million,  likely due to widespread population immunity from vaccines, infection, or both."

 

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/just-how-do-deaths-due-covid-19-stack

 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You seem surprised that COVID killed a lot of people, millions of people, especially during (1) early 2021 before vaccines were widely available and then later in 2021 and into 2022 with the arrival of (2) the more deadly Delta and (3) far more transmissible Omicron variants.

 

WORLD:

 

Source:

 

UNITED STATES:

 

Source:

 

The U.S. Census Bureau below did a good job of explaining what happened when and why because of seasonality and the new COVID variants that emerged (though the U.S. timeline diverges somewhat from the world timeline):

Pandemic Disrupted Historical Mortality Patterns, Caused Largest Jump in Deaths in 100 Years

...

"Throughout 2020, as mandates changed and more became known about the virus, we saw spikes and dips in deaths that reached a peak by November and December during the holiday and winter months, when people were more likely to gather indoors.

 

Deaths began to drop In January 2021. By April that year, the United States saw a decline in deaths corresponding to increases in vaccinations. And that June, death levels returned to near June 2019 levels.

 

This decline was short-lived, though, as the Delta variant caused another spike in deaths in July and August. Deaths dropped slightly in the fall, but then the Omicron variant emerged just as holiday travel picked up in December 2021."

 

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/united-states-deaths-spiked-as-covid-19-continued.html

 

All well-documented and explained many times before.

 

 

Not surprised at all, or that more than 2X as many died after the first year vaccines available, and almost 2X died the 2nd year they were available.  Does make one wonder about the 'safe & effective' claims ... IMHO

 

Tells me, not getting the vaccine was a good idea, though I had that opinion before the numbers pointed out, my thoughts were correct.  Glad I heeded the warnings I saw and read stating to avoid the vaccine and explained why .. IMHO

[Amethyst]

A post with off-topic and unsourced claims has been removed.

 

Per the forum's rules:

 

"In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."

[Danderman123]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:07 PM, Longwood50 said:

 

I said at the time.  It is a virus.  The world has never been able to stop the spread of virus infections. 

Wrong.

 

Measles.

 

Polio.

 

Smallpox.

 

Read a book, you seem ill-informed on this subject.

[Danderman123]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:07 PM, Longwood50 said:

From 2020 until about 2022 Covid dominated the news.  We got death counts second by second and Nostradamus like predictions of the impeding end of human life. 

 

Nope.

 

We did get some "worst case" predictions that scared a lot of people. But the real numbers of deaths exceeded early worst case scenarios.

 

COVID Deniers volunteered to die in mass numbers. Human sacrifices in the name of stupidity.

[Danderman123]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:07 PM, Longwood50 said:

In the end Sweden who did absolutely nothing had lower cases per million than neighboring Finland, and Norway who were widely praised in the beginning for their tight Covid precautions. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

Swedish government response to the COVID-19 pandemic

 

The government passed a law banning large gatherings, and secondary and higher education institutions were advised to switch to distance education.

 

On 18 December 2020, Stefan Löfven, the prime minister of Sweden, announced new and tougher restrictions and recommendations including the use of face masks in public transportation and closure of all non-essential public services. In January 2021, a new pandemic law was passed that allows for the use of lockdown measures and legally limited some gatherings. Further measures were introduced in July and December 2021, such as vaccine passports.

[Robert Paulson]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

Swedish government response to the COVID-19 pandemic

 

The government passed a law banning large gatherings, and secondary and higher education institutions were advised to switch to distance education.

 

On 18 December 2020, Stefan Löfven, the prime minister of Sweden, announced new and tougher restrictions and recommendations including the use of face masks in public transportation and closure of all non-essential public services. In January 2021, a new pandemic law was passed that allows for the use of lockdown measures and legally limited some gatherings. Further measures were introduced in July and December 2021, such as vaccine passports.

Go look at some pictures of Swedes during the middle of covid when everyone was locked down...

[Amethyst]

A post with an unsourced purported factual claim has been removed.

 

Please note the pertinent forum rule:

 

"In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."