Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Gweiloman]

43 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You don't get to choose where debris falls, or the exact second you intercept a missile.  A beach is an incredibly narrow strip of land.  They didn't CHOOSE to have the debris fall on the beach.  But, since you asked:  Yes, I 100% believe that if Russia had to choose between shooting down a missile threatening an important military asset and killing a few civilians, or letting the missile hit thus saving the civilians but losing the military asset, the would 1000% choose the former.  And every Russian knows this is true.

 

Look, if you know nothing about the subject, don't talk about it.

Choosing to fire 5 (?) ATAMCS with cluster ammunition during daylight hours in the vicinity of a beach where civilians are known to gather. 
 

You can say what you like. The rest of the world can see what’s happening.

[ChicagoExpat]

58 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Choosing to fire 5 (?) ATAMCS with cluster ammunition during daylight hours in the vicinity of a beach where civilians are known to gather. 
 

You can say what you like. The rest of the world can see what’s happening.

Nonsense.  Missiles are intercepted at high altitude; of course they may fall where there are civilians.  Russia started a war (there is no such thing as an SMO), and if they don't like it when their citizens are affected by their own war (there is no such thing as an SMO), they can withdraw from Ukraine.

 

You can say what you like.  The rest of the world can see what's happening.

[Mavideol]

A Ukrainian author turned soldier has a stark warning for the West: ‘Be prepared for war with Russia’

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-author-turned-soldier-stark-102217517.html

[Mavideol]

payback time, Russia keeps doing worse, have absolutely no right to complain, they should expect more and worse attacks

Russia accuses Ukraine of deadly drone attacks in Crimea's Sevastopol

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-accuses-ukraine-deadly-drone-151846233.html

 

 

[Mavideol]

things are starting to look very bad for the Russians

Biden administration moves toward allowing American military contractors to deploy to Ukraine

https://au.yahoo.com/news/biden-administration-moves-toward-allowing-172104921.html

 

[Mavideol]

I wouldn't trust 1 word out of his mouth. Many Russians are not trustworthy people, mostly the one with government posts or Putin's allies

 

Pentagon chief speaks with Russia's new defence minister for first time

https://au.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-chief-speaks-russias-defense-010633167.html

 

[Mavideol]

Chaos it's starting all over Russia, military as well civilians... Dagestan it's boiling up

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Arrest warrants for Russian officials as Putin’s aide warns of ‘fatal’ consequences

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-ukraine-war-latest-putin-035046932.html

 

[Mavideol]

it really doesn't mean much, same as they did to Putin...,  but at least they did it

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Russia’s top general, ex-defense minister

https://au.yahoo.com/news/international-criminal-court-issues-arrest-130326202.html

 

 

 

[Denim]

On 6/25/2024 at 1:46 PM, BobBKK said:

 
Do you sincerely believe Russia chose to shoot down cluster missiles (BANNED missiles) over the beach???  talk about propaganda  lol  

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-appears-placing-military-facilities-113859834.html

 

On Sunday, Russia's Ministry of Defence accused Ukraine of launching five American-made MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile Systems, also known as ATACMS, with cluster warheads on civilian infrastructure in Sevastopol.

 

Four ATACMS were shot down, it said, but the impact from a Russian air-defense interceptor caused one to deviate from its trajectory and its warhead to explode midair over the city.

Fragments of cluster munitions injured more than 20 civilians, including children, it said, adding that the US was partly to blame.

 

[Denim]

Russia appears to be placing military facilities near civilian areas in Crimea to deter Ukrainian strikes, experts say

Thibault Spirlet

Updated Mon, June 24, 2024 at 7:57 PM GMT+7·2 min read

54

 

Russia appears to be placing military facilities near civilian areas in Crimea to deter Ukrainian strikes, experts say

• Russia accused Ukraine of injuring civilians in an ATACMS attack on Crimea on Sunday.

• Russia is likely placing military facilities near civilians to deter Ukrainian strikes, experts say.

• Sevastopol's governor said four people were killed and 82 hospitalized as a result of the attack.

Russia is likely placing military facilities near civilian areas in Crimea to try to deter further Ukrainian strikes, military analysts said.

The influential Institute for the Study of War reached the conclusion in an assessment on Sunday, citing a reported strike against Sevastopol, where Russia has its Black Sea Fleet headquarters.

On Sunday, Russia's Ministry of Defence accused Ukraine of launching five American-made MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile Systems, also known as ATACMS, with cluster warheads on civilian infrastructure in Sevastopol.

 

Four ATACMS were shot down, it said, but the impact from a Russian air-defense interceptor caused one to deviate from its trajectory and its warhead to explode midair over the city.

Fragments of cluster munitions injured more than 20 civilians, including children, it said, adding that the US was partly to blame.

In a Telegram post on Sunday, Mikhail Razvozhayev, the Russia-installed governor of Sevastopol, said four people were killed, 151 sought medical help, and 82 were hospitalized as of 9 p.m. local time.

Russian and Ukrainian sources appeared to confirm the missile strike, with some claiming cluster munitions landed near civilians.

Ukrainian state broadcaster Suspilne said its sources heard explosions in the city of Yevpatoria.

Crimean Wind, a pro-Ukrainian group that monitors information in Crimea, posted footage that it said showed explosions in Yevpatoria and near Vytine.

Meanwhile, one Russian source claimed the attack hit the village of Lyubimovka, only kilometers away from beaches popular with vacationers and locals.

Placing potential military targets near civilian infrastructure is a strategy Russia has leveraged in the past, with the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and schools in occupied Ukraine used to shield Russian military equipment, the ISW reported.

However, in doing so, Russia is likely breaking its own International Humanitarian Law, which says that military command must refrain from placing military targets close to or in highly populated areas.

Neither the ISW nor Business Insider could independently verify if Ukrainian forces used missiles armed with cluster munitions.

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Earlier this month, the ISW said that Ukraine's sustained attacks against Russian air defenses in Crimea could make the peninsula untenable as a military staging ground.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-puts-military-near-civilians-crimea-deter-ukraine-strikes-isw-2024-6

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

 I never said that - you are trolling and stalking AGAIN - so be careful, please.

Bob, yesterday at 1230 PM:

Tell that to the families of the children killed by USA cluster bombs on Savastopols beach. Shame on you.

 Ukraine attacked civilian infrastructure in Sevastopol using ATACMS tactical missiles carrying cluster munitions on June 23. Holidaymakers were killed on the beach. Now, deny it.
MSM will be in denial mode soon, lying to everyone that it was an 'accident' or 'pieces of missiles blown up and falling'. 

Also Bob, today at 2:30 PM:

I never said Ukraine purposely struck the beach with cluster munitions! You are trolling and stalking me!

 

Bob, this is how a forum works.  Someone makes a statement, and someone else replies.  It's neither "trolling" not "stalking".

[Rimmer]

Off topic bickering posts and replies removed

[Bkk Brian]

From Iuliia Mendel, ex spokesperson to @ZelenskyyUa

 

80% of Ukrainians believe in Ukraine's victory in the war, 12% do not. 
38% believe that it will come in 1-2 years, 15% - that it will take 3 to 5 years, 5% - more than 5 years, 1% - that the victory will happen "unlikely in my lifetime".

 

Also confirmed here:

Some 80% of respondents believe in Ukraine's victory in the war against Russia, while 12% do not.

These are the findings of a survey conducted by the Razumkov Center's sociological service from June 6 to 12, 2024. 

Additionally, compared to January 2024, there are somewhat more Ukrainians who believe that victory will come by the end of this year (from 20% to 24%).

According to the survey, 38% of respondents believe that victory will come in one to two years, 15% think it will take three to five years, 5% believe it will take more than five years, and 1% responded that victory is "unlikely in my lifetime."

[kwonitoy]

 

[kwonitoy]

 

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

From Iuliia Mendel, ex spokesperson to @ZelenskyyUa

 

80% of Ukrainians believe in Ukraine's victory in the war, 12% do not. 
38% believe that it will come in 1-2 years, 15% - that it will take 3 to 5 years, 5% - more than 5 years, 1% - that the victory will happen "unlikely in my lifetime".

 

Also confirmed here:

Some 80% of respondents believe in Ukraine's victory in the war against Russia, while 12% do not.

These are the findings of a survey conducted by the Razumkov Center's sociological service from June 6 to 12, 2024. 

Additionally, compared to January 2024, there are somewhat more Ukrainians who believe that victory will come by the end of this year (from 20% to 24%).

According to the survey, 38% of respondents believe that victory will come in one to two years, 15% think it will take three to five years, 5% believe it will take more than five years, and 1% responded that victory is "unlikely in my lifetime."

Meanwhile, on an Asean Now poll, only 12.9% of of an extremely biased and pro-Ukrainian audience thinks that Ukraine will win…

[Danderman123]

23 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Choosing to fire 5 (?) ATAMCS with cluster ammunition during daylight hours in the vicinity of a beach where civilians are known to gather. 
 

You can say what you like. The rest of the world can see what’s happening.

Tell us your opinion of the hundreds of Russian strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets.

[Danderman123]

Reports are that dozens of Russian troops are still trapped in the Vovchansk pocket.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

 

If that's the case then likely the Russians will ensure the F16s don't fly. I'm sure they are storing up drones and missiles to destroy every landing site. Apparently F16s can't take off from rough surfaces. Brilliant thinking by the designers, not.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

 

Putin would use North Korean troops as ‘cannon fodder,’ Pentagon claims

 

 

LOL. What else would they say?

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Meanwhile, on an Asean Now poll, only 12.9% of of an extremely biased and pro-Ukrainian audience thinks that Ukraine will win…

Oh gosh, hilareous for you. Before tripping over laughing you should have taken a step back to see what that tells you about the other topic poll your referring to 😴

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Putin would use North Korean troops as ‘cannon fodder,’ Pentagon claims

 

 

LOL. What else would they say?

Nothing. Truth is always best.

[jayceenik]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that's the case then likely the Russians will ensure the F16s don't fly. I'm sure they are storing up drones and missiles to destroy every landing site. Apparently F16s can't take off from rough surfaces. Brilliant thinking by the designers, not.

Yes, I too read some time ago that clean runways are needed for F-16 and that the Russians would certainly make Ukraine's airfields unsuitable for them but I have not seen this mentioned since by politico commentators until your post. 

My conspiracy mind makes me think that NATo will try to operate them from nearby US vassal states like Poland. This is Casus Belli and will not be tolerated by Putin who has already said that foreign airfields will be made INOP if they host them.

F-16 are suited to be armed with nukes so I'm not sure what Putin will make of them if they start intruding in Russian territory. That should worry him about a potential sneaky nuke attack.

To this day I still fail to see what is the benefit for Europeans to so eagerly follow the US into their long-planned geostrategic proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. Old Russophobic hatreds should not trump the interests of the peoples of Europe. But then, among the EU leaders there is only Viktor Orban who seem to care for his people, the others are devoted Atlantists taking their orders from the boss.

 

[tgw]

2 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Yes, I too read some time ago that clean runways are needed for F-16 and that the Russians would certainly make Ukraine's airfields unsuitable for them but I have not seen this mentioned since by politico commentators until your post. 

My conspiracy mind makes me think that NATo will try to operate them from nearby US vassal states like Poland. This is Casus Belli and will not be tolerated by Putin who has already said that foreign airfields will be made INOP if they host them.

F-16 are suited to be armed with nukes so I'm not sure what Putin will make of them if they start intruding in Russian territory. That should worry him about a potential sneaky nuke attack.

To this day I still fail to see what is the benefit for Europeans to so eagerly follow the US into their long-planned geostrategic proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. Old Russophobic hatreds should not trump the interests of the peoples of Europe. But then, among the EU leaders there is only Viktor Orban who seem to care for his people, the others are devoted Atlantists taking their orders from the boss.

 

And another Ruzzian propagandist ...

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Yes, I too read some time ago that clean runways are needed for F-16 and that the Russians would certainly make Ukraine's airfields unsuitable for them but I have not seen this mentioned since by politico commentators until your post. 

My conspiracy mind makes me think that NATo will try to operate them from nearby US vassal states like Poland. This is Casus Belli and will not be tolerated by Putin who has already said that foreign airfields will be made INOP if they host them.

F-16 are suited to be armed with nukes so I'm not sure what Putin will make of them if they start intruding in Russian territory. That should worry him about a potential sneaky nuke attack.

To this day I still fail to see what is the benefit for Europeans to so eagerly follow the US into their long-planned geostrategic proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. Old Russophobic hatreds should not trump the interests of the peoples of Europe. But then, among the EU leaders there is only Viktor Orban who seem to care for his people, the others are devoted Atlantists taking their orders from the boss.

 

I'm sure there is a plan for the new world order, and Ukraine is part of it, but more than that I know not.

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Yes, I too read some time ago that clean runways are needed for F-16 and that the Russians would certainly make Ukraine's airfields unsuitable for them but I have not seen this mentioned since by politico commentators until your post. 

My conspiracy mind makes me think that NATo will try to operate them from nearby US vassal states like Poland. This is Casus Belli and will not be tolerated by Putin who has already said that foreign airfields will be made INOP if they host them.

F-16 are suited to be armed with nukes so I'm not sure what Putin will make of them if they start intruding in Russian territory. That should worry him about a potential sneaky nuke attack.

To this day I still fail to see what is the benefit for Europeans to so eagerly follow the US into their long-planned geostrategic proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. Old Russophobic hatreds should not trump the interests of the peoples of Europe. But then, among the EU leaders there is only Viktor Orban who seem to care for his people, the others are devoted Atlantists taking their orders from the boss.

 

Sweeden have used public roads s their strategy for decades and now part of the Nordic allianse strategy

 

 

 

A Norwegian F-35A fighter jet takes off after a touch-and-go landing on a highway in the Finnish forests. Immediately after landing, so-called "hot pit refueling" was carried out – a technique in which the motor runs while the fuel tank is being filled in order to reduce downtime

 

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/norwegian-f-35-fighters-landed-finnish-highway-first-time

[GroveHillWanderer]

29 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Sweeden have used public roads s their strategy for decades and now part of the Nordic allianse strategy

 

 

A Norwegian F-35A fighter jet takes off after a touch-and-go landing on a highway in the Finnish forests. Immediately after landing, so-called "hot pit refueling" was carried out – a technique in which the motor runs while the fuel tank is being filled in order to reduce downtime

 

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/norwegian-f-35-fighters-landed-finnish-highway-first-time

And that is why I think Ukraine would be better off with Gripens rather than F-16's.

 

Unfortunately, according to a spokesman for the Swedish Defence Minister:

 

Quote

"The other countries in the air force coalition have asked us to wait before donating the Gripen system”

 

Sweden pauses plans to send Gripen jets to Ukraine

 

A short-sighted decision by these "other countries" if you ask me.

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

And that is why I think Ukraine would be better off with Gripens rather than F-16's.

 

Unfortunately, according to a spokesman for the Swedish Defence Minister:

 

 

Sweden pauses plans to send Gripen jets to Ukraine

 

A short-sighted decision by these "other countries" if you ask me.

It is more likely about logistics and training, can't just trow advanced weapon and defense  systems at Ukraine and believe it doesnt steal crucial resources they need for other fields of the war. 

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

It is more likely about logistics and training, can't just trow advanced weapon and defense  systems at Ukraine and believe it doesnt steal crucial resources they need for other fields of the war. 

Well yes, as the article states, it would be too logistically complicated to introduce two completely novel, advanced fighter jet systems into Ukraine at the same time. 

 

My point is that out of the two systems, the Gripen is much better suited to the current conditions in Ukraine, so if you're going to choose one to introduce first, it should be the Gripen. 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Hummin said:

Sweeden have used public roads s their strategy for decades and now part of the Nordic allianse strategy

 

 

 

A Norwegian F-35A fighter jet takes off after a touch-and-go landing on a highway in the Finnish forests. Immediately after landing, so-called "hot pit refueling" was carried out – a technique in which the motor runs while the fuel tank is being filled in order to reduce downtime

 

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/norwegian-f-35-fighters-landed-finnish-highway-first-time

LOL, from the vdo I've seen of Ukraine, finding a similar road in Ukraine might be a problem. They have to be strong enough to take one landing, and best not just mud.