Thai Navy Admirals Bow To China While Keeping Defence Minister At Bay: Academic

[webfact]

 

THAI NAVY ADMIRALS have ultimately succumbed to China whilst Thai Defence Minister Suthin Khlangsang has obviously capitulated to their whims over the long-delayed procurement of a submarine with a “low-quality” engine from the Asian superpower, concluded a noted academic yesterday (May 24).

 

Chulalongkorn University’s political scientist Prof. Emer. Surachart Bamrungsuk charged that the commanding admirals would practically be more or less influenced by a certain clique of persons with deeply vested interests in the navy’s procurement plan for the Chinese-made S26T submarine whilst the civilian Pheu Thai-attached defence minister could not do anything other than capitulate to their demands.

 

The unnamed, influential figures, from both inside and outside the navy, have practically managed to keep the commanding admirals and civilian defence minister under control when it comes to the purchase of the 12.4 billion baht S26T submarine which will be equipped with a “low-quality”, Chinese-made CHD620 in lieu of the contract-specified, German-made MTU396, according to the political scientist.

 

The sale of the German MTU396 engine for use aboard the Chinese submarine had been ultimately denied as part of the European Union’s trade embargo measures against Beijing.

 

By Thai Newsroom Reporters

TOP: Defence Minister Suthin Khlangsaeng and a Chinese submarine. Photo: TV Channel 7

 

Full story: THAI NEWSROOM 2024-05-25

 

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[Geoffggi]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI NAVY ADMIRALS have ultimately succumbed to China whilst Thai Defence Minister Suthin Khlangsang has obviously capitulated to their whims over the long-delayed procurement of a submarine with a “low-quality” engine from the Asian superpower, concluded a noted academic yesterday (May 24).

Thin edge of the wedge has been placed, welcome to the fold .............. 😢😱😱

[Thingamabob]

Money, money, money.....

[2baht]

Bow to the Emperor (Xi)! Capitulate! Kow Tow! Grovel! Geng Jai!

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The unnamed, influential figures, from both inside and outside the navy, have practically managed to keep the commanding admirals and civilian defence minister under control

Everything that's wrong in Thailand... un-named influential people.

[soalbundy]

Why 'low quality' engine? isn't it a copy of a successful German engine? The engineering process to produce it won't be much different from the Germans.

[fondue zoo]

Which country initially trained the Thai navy to use submarines?

[fondue zoo]

He looks sad, he just found out that whatever he did to get that position wasn't worth it.

[1duckyboy]

"According to the Chulalongkorn academic, CHD620 would undoubtedly be viewed as “low-quality” in comparison to MTU396 since the Chinese engine has never been used with any operable submarines, including those of the Chinese navy."

 

I guess it would a waste of time asking for a volunteer manned submarine corps.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, 1duckyboy said:

"According to the Chulalongkorn academic, CHD620 would undoubtedly be viewed as “low-quality” in comparison to MTU396 since the Chinese engine has never been used with any operable submarines, including those of the Chinese navy."

 

I guess it would a waste of time asking for a volunteer manned submarine corps.

Nothing to do with quality, it is untested in this environment, air intake and exhaust outlets will be standard, I can't understand the fuss.

[OneZero]

This corrupt & ego loaded RTN desire never ends, so I apologize up front for repeating my never-ending prior alarm /disagreement as follows:

 

Some Navy bigwigs that want to feel important without a convincing strategic requirement. The sad thing is the long-term strategic political & military implications.  Can't the civilian leadership of this country now put a funding halt to such nonsense? 

 

Thailand will be dependent upon PRC submarine model specific Doctrine, Organization, Training, Logistics and Materiel upgrades, & thus subject to CCP unreliability /blackmail.  Undoubtedly there will be PRC advisors in Thailand for these functions and they will be doing their CCP required intelligence gathering while here.

 

 

[thesetat]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Thin edge of the wedge has been placed, welcome to the fold .............. 😢😱😱

They can not really be expected to bicker or complain.. The skimmed money is distributed already and no one would be expected to give it back. Now it does not matter what China sends them. At least this is the most logical thinking. Not fact. 

[mfd101]

25 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Can't the civilian leadership of this country now put a funding halt to such nonsense? 

Mmmmm, good question.

[bamnutsak]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI NAVY ADMIRALS have ultimately succumbed to China whilst Thai Defence Minister Suthin Khlangsang has obviously capitulated to their whims over the long-delayed procurement of a submarine with a “low-quality” engine from the Asian superpower

 

 

At this point, Thai Navy admirals are so desperate for a submarine that they'd accept the rubber-band propulsion option or a really long extension cord.

 

 

[Srikcir]

54 minutes ago, 1duckyboy said:

asking for a volunteer manned submarine corps

One has been in place for about two decades, some may have already retired without ever sailing on a Thailand submarine.

[Tropicalevo]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

the civilian Pheu Thai-attached defence minister could not do anything

Defence minister in name (and salary) only.

[Srikcir]

40 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Can't the civilian leadership of this country now put a funding halt to such nonsense? 

No.

Under PM Prayut a substantial nonrefundable downpayment was made and contracted for annual payments for the balance. Those future annual payments cannot be terminated without breach of contract and not reviewable by Parliament. That's probably why PM Thavisin had offered to purchase frigates in place of the sub purchases with no adjustment in the current purchase terms.

As I recall, the RTN rejected the substitution and apparently Thavisin complied.

Note: you state "civilian leadership." That's inexact.

The PTP coalition has made clear it will not make policies that might cause conflict with the RTM. The Thavisin government is in effect a coalition of a minority party and the military.

[edwinchester]

"...procurement of a submarine with a “low-quality” engine..."

 

Stand by for a defamation suit for that remark.

[brianthainess]

What a tangled web of corruption this country is. 

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The unnamed, influential figures, from both inside and outside the navy, have practically managed to keep the commanding admirals and civilian defence minister under control

 

[ignore it]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

deeply vested interests

 

Kind of sums it up.

[newbee2022]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Why 'low quality' engine? isn't it a copy of a successful German engine? The engineering process to produce it won't be much different from the Germans.

No, they are not able to copy the German technology. So, it's a very big difference. Thailand got low quality technique, which will be maintained by Chinese.

Alternatively Thailand could have bought a sub directly from Germany. I suppose a bit "Peng", and no brown envelopes allowed😂

[CanadaSam]

Thailand having a submarine is akin to a bird using a twig to fight with a cougar.

[Aussie999]

5 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

Which country initially trained the Thai navy to use submarines?

1938 trained by the Japanese, but their last subs were Japanese.

"After World War II, the four Thai submarines were in a bad state of disrepair, and were eventually decommissioned on 30 November 1951"

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

No, they are not able to copy the German technology. So, it's a very big difference. Thailand got low quality technique, which will be maintained by Chinese.

Alternatively Thailand could have bought a sub directly from Germany. I suppose a bit "Peng", and no brown envelopes allowed😂

It is a copy of the German engine made under License. 

They were not allowed to buy from Germany Because it's against EU rules to sell to China for military purposes. 

I wouldn't trust a Chinese copy though, there are many other components, apart from just the Engine, like Oil, filters and the complete fuel system that should be to Marine standards, and who is making the Generator/batteries and all the other electronics. ( I have seen 'fake' oil in Chinese engines it doesn't even float in water it looked more like tar).

[brianthainess]

Laughing all the way to the bank

 

[BritScot]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Why 'low quality' engine? isn't it a copy of a successful German engine? The engineering process to produce it won't be much different from the Germans.

You think! Plus a few additional tracking chips. 

[OneZero]

9 hours ago, Srikcir said:

No.

Under PM Prayut a substantial nonrefundable downpayment was made and contracted for annual payments for the balance. Those future annual payments cannot be terminated without breach of contract and not reviewable by Parliament. That's probably why PM Thavisin had offered to purchase frigates in place of the sub purchases with no adjustment in the current purchase terms.

As I recall, the RTN rejected the substitution and apparently Thavisin complied.

Note: you state "civilian leadership." That's inexact.

The PTP coalition has made clear it will not make policies that might cause conflict with the RTM. The Thavisin government is in effect a coalition of a minority party and the military.

Admittedly, I am not privy to contract details, but if you are privy, then please advise us of the "sunk costs" that would be lost by just walking away from this unnecessary Strategic (as opposed to tactical) type of weapon system.  Also, how do those "sunk costs" compare to the "Life Cycle" costs? 

 

A submarine has an extremely expensive life cycle cost and most of those costs are still ahead of it.  Walk away now before becoming further entangled in PRC blackmail (like many of the PRC's "Belt & Road" initiatives).

 

The PRC has already set Thailand up in a bad position economically with respect to competition in automobile production (see other AN thread(s)).   Thailand certainly has higher economic needs /budgetary priorities than unneeded submarines.

 

Admittedly, walking away now would be politically unappealing to Thai leadership.  But trusting the PRC in anything has proven to be a big mistake for many countries.  Stay at arm's length.

 

 

[Caldera]

How about not buying any submarines?

[Peabody]

I still don't understand how, when the Chinese couldn't fulfill the contract with the specified German engine, why that alone didn't nullify the agreement. I understand that the skim was lost already, but it had to be a hell of a lot to not be able to retrieve whatever deposit was paid (I think I read 7+ billion THB) and cover their tracks on the skim.

[CANSIAM]

Low quality engines, what else on board is low quality,  hope Thai Admirals know that subsea is a continuous enemy.......an entombed crew in no time.......