Rishi Sunak vows to bring back National Service

[Will B Good]

43 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I expect ‘hanging and flogging’ are on the list of proposals he has in mind.

 

On the upside, they would be cheap, unlike his bird brained ‘National Service’ nonsense.

 

Sunak jumps the shark, but where’s the money coming from to pay for his nonsense?

TM's magic DUP money tree I guess....555

[youreavinalaff]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It just an observation.

 

You mention stuff working.

 

Nothing Sunak promises ever seems to work.

 

I believe voters have noticed.

 

 

 

 

I know you often fail to grasp simple English but this example really takes the biscuit.

 

Another poster and I were discussing "How it might work" not "If it works" or "If it's working" A fundamental difference noticeable to all, with the exception of trolls.

 

 

[Chelseafan]

9 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Make it 2 years ,the youth of today need to learn a bit of discipline ,and get 

off their smartphones......it will do them the world of good ,see what happens

when they try to answer back to a drill Sergeant .....

 

regards Worgeordie

 

 

Tell that to every VOTING mother and father who's "darling" child must now do National Service. I agree with you but it's a total own goal for the Tories.

 

[Chelseafan]

5 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

In their private 40-page plan, the advisers argued that the growing threats from countries like China need to be addressed by strengthening the Armed Forces.

What an idiot. The threat from a country like China is economic and technological, not military. Looks like the MIC has gotten their claws into the British government as well.

 

 

You assume that they will be trained with a gun and a tank ?

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, transam said:

I thought conscripts were kept away from the career soldiers.

It may help with the drug problem too, teach them a bit of respect that they may not be taught at home.

Fewer yobs on the street sounds good to me too.

As for the infrastructure, loads of ex military bases not in use, oh, except for the illegals..😉

 

Yes, great idea as long as it's not your son or daughter...

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

 

 

Tell that to every VOTING mother and father who's "darling" child must now do National Service. I agree with you but it's a total own goal for the Tories.

 

You clearly haven't read the report.

[Chelseafan]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You clearly haven't read the report.

 

 I clearly have but you missed the sarcasm.

 

 

Edited May 26 by Chelseafan

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

 

 I clearly have but you missed the sarcasm.

 

 

No, I didn't.

 

You missed that it won't be "Every" voting mother and father.

However, if the "darling child" in your comment was sarcasm, I agree. 😅😅

 

I don't think it's an own goal, not yet anyway.

 

If it's announced those entering uni or those in full-time employment are exempt, I think there's milage in the plan.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26 by youreavinalaff

[Chelseafan]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No, I didn't.

 

You missed that it won't be "Every" voting mother and father.

However, if the "darling child" in your comment was sarcasm, I agree. 😅😅

 

I don't think it's an own goal, not yet anyway.

 

If it's announced those entering uni or those in full-time employment are exempt, I think there's milage in the plan.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I understand the article. I should have put "every voting mother and father of a child that's 18 and leaving school" but most people would get what I mean 🙂

I reckon they've just lost the vote of any parent who's child is under 18.

 

If this is all about the unemployed/unemployable then I'm voting Tory 🙂

 

 

[still kicking]

I did 18 months albeit not in Britain it did not do me any good I spend more time in the brink than outside 

Edited May 26 by still kicking

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Yes I understand the article. I should have put "every voting mother and father of a child that's 18 and leaving school" but most people would get what I mean 🙂

I reckon they've just lost the vote of any parent who's child is under 18.

 

If this is all about the unemployed/unemployable then I'm voting Tory 🙂

 

 

I think you missed the point. 

 

Only 1 in 26 would likely do military service.

 

Exemptions from the whole scheme are yet to be announced.

Edited May 26 by youreavinalaff

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

It seems that every generation there is a new threat/opportunity which will steal our jobs/free us from the burden of work.

 

But human ingenuity and adaptability always creates new opportunities. AI is definitely going to change things, but like the internet before it, huge swathes of people are not going to be languishing in poverty as a result because innovation will fill the gap, as it has done countless times in the past.

 

If you were also born in the 30s or early 40s I disagree that you had equality of opportunity. The UK has always been an incredibly stratified country. Things were improving significantly until the last 10 years or so; that's what we need to tackle - the retrenchment to where only children of the rich can hope to aspire to the top. National Service is not going to fix that.

The days in NZ where we could do almost any job we chose are long gone, as most industry has been outsourced to China and there isn't much requirement for farm labour any more- everything has been mechanised. I know that it's more pronounced in the UK because you have that vile class structure, but AI robotics is going to make such a difference that IMO most people can't comprehend how different it will be. It's not a question of doing something different, as EVERYTHING can be done by AI robotics. We haven't even begun to see what the reality will be, though we can see many examples of jobs that have been replaced by machines. EG farm workers- a farm I know had 3 workers full time in the 60s ( 4 if including the boss ), now it's the boss and one worker- everything is contracted out. AI robotics can replace the one worker. Milking cows, a machine can do what a human used to be needed to do- and it's likely factories will make milk instead of cows in the future. They are even making machines to pick fruit- no need for seasonal workers any more.

 

I don't know how it's going to end up, but if the 1% own all the machines it's not looking good. Perhaps National Service for life will be the only work available for the rest of the population.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, still kicking said:

I did 18 months albeit not in Britain it did not do me any good I spend more time in the brink than outside 

"Brink"? I know what that is as in "on the brink", but I don't know what you are using it for.

Please explain.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Yes, great idea as long as it's not your son or daughter...

 

As an ex military man myself I would not hesitate to send a son or daughter of mine to do National Service, as long as it did not entail being sent to die in some useless war for the 1% to get rich off.

A bit of discipline never hurt anyone.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

 

 

You assume that they will be trained with a gun and a tank ?

Exactly. Non military types have no idea of how many jobs in the military are nothing to do with fighting. More are involved behind the lines than the uninformed realise.

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

If you can't see it, I hope those you trained are no longer in service. 

 

If they are, the security of UK is in deep sh$#.

 

Try again. Here's my reasoning:

 

"What I do know is your comments are wide of the mark. Unless you know all nearly 18 year olds that it will affect, how many will choose the 12 month option and how many will then choose to enlist."

 

Tell me you do know and I'll withrmdraw my comment of you being wide of the mark.

 

Very clearly, you know nothing at all about the matter we are discussing. Rather like, perhaps, it's original political proposers. You seem to have painted yourself into a corner and are now, to coin a phrase " having a laugh"!

 

It would be interesting to know the service chiefs views on these proposals. We never will, they cannot comment on political proposals, and I doubt if they were ever consulted.

 

It does seem that a number of people are following our discussion. Many of them will understand if I declare "Endex"!

Edited May 26 by herfiehandbag

[Skipalongcassidy]

14 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

 

The world is a very different place now. The opportunities that are open to young people today are almost unimaginable in their breadth and internationalism. The solution to youth disaffection is not some nationalistic throwback to a time from before the vast majority of us were alive. The government needs to focus on removing barriers to opportunity. 

Yet the youth tend to squander al the vastness of those opportunities on drugs and social media in order to feel good... name one good accounting of the youth brigade in today's world that is bettering the world.

[englishoak]

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are dancing around a prediction by Karl Marx that automation would eventually lead to huge numbers of unemployed, who would eventually revolt.

 

In real life, automation has created new job niches, so unemployment is not out of control. Plus, governments hand money to unemployed people.

 

You have your head in the proverbial sand. I dont like it either  but im not fool enough to pretend its just another industrial revolution, its way past that already. You cant retrain farmers to be AI engineers or warehouse staff to robotic maintenance crews.  Whats coming  ISNT like Marx envisioned at all no, this will be much much more disruptive.Think automation on ever increasing steroids regarding mental tasks as well as physical & creative and its global, starting in the most developed countries. 

 

Why do you think theres  push for military conscription ? de globalisation is already well underway.  Taxes largely come from working people & govs take whats happening in the private sector already very  seriously.  UBI is in pilot stages in many countries  & not everyone is going to be happy about it so control will be needed, human for now.   

 

 AI is already widely used and will drastically effect everyone over the next 10 years. Within 15 every industry will have  reduced its workforce and costs significantly . You dont attend industry meetings and trade shows maybe but I do. There is a huge push and investment interest for automation & AI prospects, literally hundreds of billions  is being invested.. from AI Art to music, sales to warehouse, from farming to IT, from Media to Law, Medical to Real estate, Management to Security. Education to Research etc etc its already happening .  Big corps will continue to push things as fast as they are able seeking more profits & Jobs are going to be done increasingly faster, better, cheaper,  more efficiently and reliably with the continuing development of AI. Possibly soon, true  AGI will happen then automation possibilities will increase at an astonishing pace most are unprepared for and there will be ofc  increasing  civil unrest .... mark my words.

 

As for 18s being conscripted, yup its be both sexes and Labour will do the same in the near future because they will have no choice but to  as things unravel for the vast majority and their prospects.. 

 

 

  

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

The whole idea, which isn’t going to be implemented anyway, is being roundly ridiculed in the media.

 

Maybe a few of the octogenarians who saw national service think it’s a good idea, or at least those who thought it was a good idea when they went through it.

 

Anyone with any critical faculties left will ask the obvious question - where’s the money coming from?

 

 

Edited May 27 by Chomper Higgot

[englishoak]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The whole idea, which isn’t going to be implemented anyway, is being roundly ridiculed in the media.

 

Maybe a few of the octogenarians who saw national service think it’s a good idea, or at least those thought it was a good idea when they went through it.

 

Anyone with any critical faculties left will ask the obvious question - where’s the money coming from?

 

 

 

Its just a  floated talking point atm from a party that is toast but I believe by the end of the next term it'll become reality.

 

As for the cost ? its already being talked about in the private sector as  inevitable industry  tax costs vs profit. If the math works in their favour overall the big players will agree readily and they set industry standards  .. SME in most sectors dont stand a chance of keeping up and are already collapsing faster than in our history.  IMO & sadly the trend will continue. Just take a walk down a high street or industrial unit centers  in the UK  or look at the state of empty office accommodation to see it. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Sunak’s idiot idea is being roundly mocked from all quarters:

 

Nigel Farage, the honorary president of Reform UK, told the BBC that the proposal was designed to appeal to his voters but ultimately a “joke” and “totally impractical”.

 

Although Farage seems to also be implying that Reform voters are attracted by ‘joke’ policies that are ‘totally impractical’.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/26/rishi-sunaks-national-service-pledge-is-bonkers-says-ex-military-chief

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Its just a  floated talking point atm from a party that is toast but I believe by the end of the next term it'll become reality.

 

As for the cost ? its already being talked about in the private sector as  inevitable industry  tax costs vs profit. If the math works in their favour overall the big players will agree readily and they set industry standards  .. SME in most sectors dont stand a chance of keeping up and are already collapsing faster than in our history.  IMO & sadly the trend will continue. Just take a walk down a high street or industrial unit centers  in the UK  or look at the state of empty office accommodation to see it. 

 

 

I would certainly agree that the Tories have failed to grow the economy.

 

Offering National Service funded by taxes in place of real jobs with real training and of course zero hour contracts.

 

Sunak and his failing party are stone tone deaf.

 

It’s time for a change.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Yet the youth tend to squander al the vastness of those opportunities on drugs and social media in order to feel good... name one good accounting of the youth brigade in today's world that is bettering the world.

 

Youth is wasted on the young; a phrase repeated since the began.

[Hakuna Matata]

17 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Rishi Sunak plans to introduce compulsory National Service for all 18-year-olds

 

OMG, Ukraine needs more soldiers?

[englishoak]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I would certainly agree that the Tories have failed to grow the economy.

 

Offering National Service funded by taxes in place of real jobs with real training and of course zero hour contracts.

 

Sunak and his failing party are stone tone deaf.

 

It’s time for a change.

 

Tory or Labour dosnt really matter imo they are the uniparty.. Same crap just different colours.

 

I expect more of the same for most  under Labour

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, englishoak said:

 

Tory or Labour dosnt really matter imo they are the uniparty.. Same crap just different colours.

 

I expect more of the same for most  under Labour

Doomed, doomed, we’re all doomed. 

[john donson]

if you believe some sources,   use the illegals, enlist them and promise them a legal way to become citizen

 

now they get it for free doing nothing but cause trouble and costs ANYWAY

 

people who are blind that illegal immigration is a good thing , wait a generation or two...

[transam]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You keep tugging that forelock, Tranny - your betters still laugh at you and look down on you like they always have, but they appreciate you more because without pliant and weak proles such as yourself, their position might be in danger.

All that is in your lefty, Scottish independence head............🤕

[transam]

8 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Yes, great idea as long as it's not your son or daughter...

 

Why..?  🤔

[JonnyF]

Perhaps they could make 5 years national service a mandatory requirement for gaining citizenship?

 

10 years if you came illegally by boat...