If you can read Thai - analyze this portion of Immigration Section 38

[ningnong]

Fellow readers of Thai briefly explain in English the following portion of Section 38. Not a word for word translation just a simple explanation.

 

ข้อ ๒ การแจ้งของเจ้าบ้าน เจ้าของหรือผู้ครอบครองเคหสถาน หรือผู้จัดการโรงแรมซึ่งรับคนต่างด้าวซึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราวเข้าพักอาศย ให้ปฏิบัติดังต่อไปนี้

 

 

ข้อ ๒.๑ ให้แจ้งต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ณ ที่ทำการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองซึ่งมีอำนาจการรับผิดชอบในเขตพื้นที่ที่บ้าน เคหสถาน หรือโรงแรมนั้นตั้งอยู่ภายในยี่สิบสี่ชั่วโมงนับแต่วันเวลาที่คนต่างด้าวเข้าพักอาศัย

 

ข้อ ๒.๒ เมื่อเจ้าบ้าน เจ้าของ หรือผู้ครอบครองเคหสถาน หรือผู้จัดการโรงแรม ได้ดำเนินการแจ้งตาม ๒.๑ แล้ว ต่อมาคนต่างด้าวเดินทางไปพักแรมที่อื่นเป็นครั้งคราวและกลับเข้ามาพักอาศัยสถานที่เดิมภายใต้กรอบระยะเวลาการรับเข้าพักอาศัยที่ยังไม่สิ้นสุดลง เจ้าบ้าน เจ้าของหรือผู้ครอบครองเคหสถาน หรือผู้จัดการโรงแรมไม่ต้องแจ้งซ้ำอีก

 

คนต่างด้าวตามความในวรรคหนึ่ง ให้หมายความรวมถึงคนต่างด้าวที่ได้รับการตรวจลงตราชนิดใช้ได้หลายครั้งซึ่งเดินทางออกไปนอกราชอาณาจักรและกลับเข้ามาตามอายุการตรวจลงตรา และคนต่างด้าวที่ได้รับอนุญาตให้กลับเข้ามาอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรอีกตามสิทธิเดิม (Re-entry permit)

 

[kwilco]

It's about registering foreigners staying in a place. and what they have to do if they return to that place

[NE1]

Section 2: Notification of the home owner Owner or possessor of dwelling or the manager of a hotel that accepts foreigners who are permitted to stay temporarily in the Kingdom to stay Do the following:

 

 

Section 2.1: Notify the official at the Immigration office which has responsibility for the area where the home, residence, or hotel is located within twenty-four hours from the date the foreigner enters the residence.

 

Section 2.2 When the home owner, owner or possessor of the dwelling or hotel manager The notification according to 2.1 has been processed. Later, the foreigner travels to stay at another place from time to time and returns to stay at the same place under the time frame of accepting residence that has not yet ended. The host, owner or person Possession of residence or the hotel manager does not have to notify again

 

Aliens according to paragraph one It shall include aliens who have been issued multiple-use visas who travel out of the Kingdom and return for the duration of their visas. and aliens who have been allowed to return to stay in the Kingdom according to their original rights (Re-entry permit)

 

[ningnong]

How I read it:

 

Landlords, owners,  person in possession of a dwelling or hotel managers who take in a foreigner, who is permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily, including foreigners with multiple entry visas and those who have entered on a re-entry permit, notification needs to be done as follows:

 

 

Immigration needs to be notified within 24 hours of a foreigner moving in.

 

After Immigration has been notified as mentioned above and the foreigner goes to occasionally stay somewhere else overnight and then returns to the same residence within the period of agreement to stay at that residence a new notification is not required.

 

*note, I combined the first and last paragraphs to make it more readable.

[ningnong]

14 hours ago, kwilco said:

It's about registering foreigners staying in a place. and what they have to do if they return to that place

I did request a brief explanation and this accurate.

[ningnong]

The use of the word พักแรม in ข้อ ๒.๒ is interesting. It indicates that when returning to a residence, home, hotel etc, being exempt from the need to notify immigration again only applies to very short times away from home. I guess its up to Immigration to quantify how many days พักแรม is equal to. I assume a two month trip out of the country does not qualify as พักแรม.

 

Definition of พักแรม
thai2english.com: 1. stay overnight; spend the night
thai-notes.com/dictionaries/haas: 1. to camp, lodge, stay overnight.
thai-language.com: 1. to halt, lay-over, stop for the night, stay overnight at a place, to rest or relax, remain at a place temporarily

 

 

Google Translate
คนต่างด้าวเดินทางไปพักแรม Foreigners travel to stay overnight.
ที่อื่นเป็นครั้งคราว Occasionally elsewhere

[ningnong]

15 hours ago, NE1 said:

returns to stay at the same place under the time frame of accepting residence that has not yet ended

That is a correct translation.

 

The common belief over in the visa forum of AN is that 'time frame that has not ended' is referring to a permission to stay in Thailand stamp in a passport.

 

 

I invite people who can read Thai at an intermediate level or better to show where there is any mention of permission to stay in Thailand in section 2.2 Thai version.

 

Google Translate:
กลับเข้ามาพักอาศัยสถานที่เดิม Return to stay in the same place
ภายใต้กรอบระยะเวลา within the time frame
การรับเข้พักอาศัย residential admission
ที่ยังไม่สิ้นสุดลง that has not yet ended

 

[digbeth]

16 hours ago, ningnong said:

ภายใต้กรอบระยะเวลาการรับเข้าพักอาศัย

"within the timeframe of being accepted as resident"

 

could mean for the duration stated on rental contract

 

keyword being พักอาศัย rather than เข้าเมือง where permission of stay were given

 

 

 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, ningnong said:

That is a correct translation.

 

The common belief over in the visa forum of AN is that 'time frame that has not ended' is referring to a permission to stay in Thailand stamp in a passport.

 

 

I invite people who can read Thai at an intermediate level or better to show where there is any mention of permission to stay in Thailand in section 2.2 Thai version.

 

Google Translate:
กลับเข้ามาพักอาศัยสถานที่เดิม Return to stay in the same place
ภายใต้กรอบระยะเวลา within the time frame
การรับเข้พักอาศัย residential admission
ที่ยังไม่สิ้นสุดลง that has not yet ended

 

To me 

กรอบระยะเวลาการรับเข้าพักอาศัยที่ยังไม่สิ้นสุดลง

 

Can only be referring to permission of stay.

If not what is the timeframe that is being referred to, rental contract, leasehold, hotel reservation However how would this apply to somebody whose rental contract exceeds the permission of stay or somebody who owns their own property.

 

The other aspect, and maybe somebody can clarify, when informing of residency to the relevant officer is a timeframe of residency tenancy stated or requested.?.( I have not completed one myself so do not know)

 

[ningnong]

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

"within the timeframe of being accepted as resident"

 

could mean for the duration stated on rental contract

 

On the official Thai document regarding this regulation there is a TM30 form attached at the bottom which includes the field: พักอาศัย ระหว่าง which could be the timeframe that is referred to.

 

 

พักอาศัย residence
ระหว่าง between

https://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2563/E/141/T_0001.PDF

 

And on the TM30 download from Immigration website there is this field:
ครบกําหนดอนุญาต Permission expired

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/17.แบบการแจ้งรับคนต่างด้าวเข้าพักอาศัย.pdf

 

[ningnong]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

The other aspect, and maybe somebody can clarify, when informing of residency to the relevant officer is a timeframe of residency tenancy stated or requested.?.( I have not completed one myself so do not know)

timeframe of residency tenancy is stated when filling in a TM30 form.

I know that when doing  a TM30 online, after registering a residence, there are To and From fields for Date of Stay.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, ningnong said:

timeframe of residency tenancy is stated when filling in a TM30 form.

I know that when doing  a TM30 online, after registering a residence, there are To and From fields for Date of Stay.

After further thought I don't see how this changes the situation.

 

The sections quoted state, paraphrasing,  if the foreigner stays at other places occasionally and then returns . 

For this to make sense the foreigner must still be staying/resident at the original location for any visit elsewhere to be regarded as occasional.

Thus I would regard รับเข้าพักอาศัย as meaning receiving residency and that being the permit to stay.

However I could be wrong.

 

[ningnong]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

Thus I would regard รับเข้าพักอาศัย as meaning receiving residency and that being the permit to stay.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that รับเข้าพักอาศัย is related to the permission to stay (admittance) at a residence as opposed to the permission to stay in Thailand?

รับเข้า  admit
พักอาศัย  residence

[cleopatra2]

18 minutes ago, ningnong said:

If I understand you correctly you are saying that รับเข้าพักอาศัย is related to the permission to stay (admittance) at a residence as opposed to the permission to stay in Thailand?

รับเข้า  admit
พักอาศัย  residence

It is not clear to me if การรับเข้าพักอาศัย is referencing the stay granted in paragraph 1 ชั่วคราวเข้าพักอาศัย or some other , e.g the planned length of stay in hotel.

[cleopatra2]

To clarify

In Section 2 we have mentioned foreigners being given temporary stay 

เป็นการชั่วคราวเข้าพักอาศย

This is obviously the time limited permission of stay

Next we come to section 2,2. and 

ภายใต้กรอบระยะเวลาการรับเข้าพักอาศัย

Within the time of stay.

 

To me section2,2 is referring to the time limited permission of stay mentioned in section 2.

[cleopatra2]

4 hours ago, ningnong said:

timeframe of residency tenancy is stated when filling in a TM30 form.

I know that when doing  a TM30 online, after registering a residence, there are To and From fields for Date of Stay.

Yes I have just had it clarified.

The TM30 indicates arrival date and expected stay duration. 

It is this duration that section 2,2 refers to not the permission of stay.

 

My previous comments are incorrect.

apologies 

[ningnong]

31 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Yes I have just had it clarified.

The TM30 indicates arrival date and expected stay duration. 

It is this duration that section 2,2 refers to not the permission of stay.

 

My previous comments are incorrect.

apologies 

No apologies necessary

Sorry I was slow getting back to you but thanks for working through the logic on your own. That was a good observation you made earlier.

 

 

[digbeth]

Quote

มาตรา 35 คนต่างด้าวซึ่งเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราวตามมาตรา 34 อธิบดหรือพนักงาน เจ้าหน้าที่ซึ่งอธิบดีมอบหมายจะอนญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรภายใต้เงื่อนไขใด ๆ กได็  ระยะเวลาที่จะอนญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรให้กําหนดดัง.....

Permission of stay in the immigration act is written as อนุญาตให้อยู่ 

 

เข้าพักอาศัย is only mentioned on the reporting (TM30)

Quote

 

มาตรา 37 คนต่างด้าวซึ่งได้รับอนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว ต้องปฏิบัติดังต่อไปนี้ 

...

(2) พักอาศัย ณ ที่ที่ได้แจ้งต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ เว้นแต่ในกรณีที่มีเหตุผลสมควรไม่สามารถพักอาศัย ณ ที่ที่ได้แจ้งต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ ให้แจ้งการเปลี่ยนที่พักอาศัยต่อพนักงานเจ้าหน้าที่ภายในยี่สิบสี่ชั่วโมงนับแต่เวลาที่เข้าพักอาศัย

 

 

[ningnong]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:20 AM, digbeth said:

Permission of stay in the immigration act is written as อนุญาตให้อยู่ 

 

เข้าพักอาศัย is only mentioned on the reporting (TM30)

 

That's a great clue you provided that เข้ามาพักอาศัย in section 2.2 is referring to a residence or place of stay and not a permission to stay in the kingdom.

I searched the Immigration Act for occurrences of the text examples. I found เข้าพักอาศัย used only 7 times in the Immigration Act. (Be sure there is no trailing space on a Thai word when searching the Immigration Act text.) In each instance เข้าพักอาศัย is used it is related to residing or staying somewhere including  its use in Section 38 (TM30).

เข้า enter
พักอาศัย V stay, live; reside

These two phrases are what are used when referring to permission to stay in Thailand and they are used several time in the Immigration Act:

อนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักร Permission to stay in the Kingdom
อนุญาตให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว Permission to stay in the Kingdom temporarily

[ningnong]

On 5/28/2024 at 10:40 AM, ningnong said:

The use of the word พักแรม in ข้อ ๒.๒ is interesting. It indicates that when returning to a residence, home, hotel etc, being exempt from the need to notify immigration again only applies to very short times away from home. I guess its up to Immigration to quantify how many days พักแรม is equal to. I assume a two month trip out of the country does not qualify as พักแรม.

 

Definition of พักแรม
thai2english.com: 1. stay overnight; spend the night
thai-notes.com/dictionaries/haas: 1. to camp, lodge, stay overnight.
thai-language.com: 1. to halt, lay-over, stop for the night, stay overnight at a place, to rest or relax, remain at a place temporarily

 

 

Google Translate
คนต่างด้าวเดินทางไปพักแรม Foreigners travel to stay overnight.
ที่อื่นเป็นครั้งคราว Occasionally elsewhere

 

Thinking more about the use of "พักแรม" in section 2.2  I got to thinking about the wording in the original petition which pushed for a change to the reporting requirements.

 

 

From the petition:

"Under Article 37, any foreigner residing in Thailand who visits another province for more than 24 hours must report to immigration. There are 77 provinces in Thailand. This means if a foreign teacher lives in Buriram and decides to spend a weekend in Surin, on Monday morning, he can’t teach. He must report to immigration. "

 

"Up until 2018 the use of form TM30 has never been strictly enforced. But now foreigners and Thai people are being fined for not having filed the form TM30 on returning to their home address following a weekend in another province."

 

Note the emphasis in the petition on going away for the weekend. Nowhere does the petition mention longer journeys or leaving the country. It certainly appears as though the petitioners got a change based on their complaints. The requirement to report to Immigration within 24 hours after an overnight trip from home "พักแรม" was changed.

 

The petition:
https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/expat-group-petitions-thai-immigration-to-abolish-tm30-form

 

 

 

[cleopatra2]

3 hours ago, ningnong said:

 

Thinking more about the use of "พักแรม" in section 2.2  I got to thinking about the wording in the original petition which pushed for a change to the reporting requirements.

 

 

From the petition:

"Under Article 37, any foreigner residing in Thailand who visits another province for more than 24 hours must report to immigration. There are 77 provinces in Thailand. This means if a foreign teacher lives in Buriram and decides to spend a weekend in Surin, on Monday morning, he can’t teach. He must report to immigration. "

 

"Up until 2018 the use of form TM30 has never been strictly enforced. But now foreigners and Thai people are being fined for not having filed the form TM30 on returning to their home address following a weekend in another province."

 

Note the emphasis in the petition on going away for the weekend. Nowhere does the petition mention longer journeys or leaving the country. It certainly appears as though the petitioners got a change based on their complaints. The requirement to report to Immigration within 24 hours after an overnight trip from home "พักแรม" was changed.

 

The petition:
https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/expat-group-petitions-thai-immigration-to-abolish-tm30-form

 

 

 

พักแรม is a verb or verb phrase and thus does not have a plural form.

The actual meaning is defined as พักค้างคืน to stay overnight.

 

 

 

[ningnong]

19 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

พักแรม is a verb or verb phrase and thus does not have a plural form.

The actual meaning is defined as พักค้างคืน to stay overnight.

 

 

 

Stay overnight is the literal meaning of พักแรม as you pointed out.

Taken literally the way the regulation is written after two (or more) consecutive overnight stays away a foreigner is no longer exempt from notifying immigration when returning to their main registered place of stay (within the time-frame reported on their original TM30 notification.)

 

I hope Immigration would show some flexibility and not take it so literally though, but up to them.

 

[ningnong]

The first paragraph of the regulation change of June 2020 states this regulation applies to "aliens who are permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily."

 

I think that would include anyone with an "admitted until stamp" in their passport tourist, visa exempt etc.

 

 

The last paragraph adds aliens that have a multiple entry visa or a re-entry permit to the group "aliens who are permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily" mentioned in the first paragraph.

 

One possible reason for adding that final paragraph to the regulation is the next section, Section 39 of the Immigration Act, did not include multiple entry visas.

 

<Immigration Act Section 39 If, after having received permission for temporary stay in the Kingdom,  the  alien  leaves  the Kingdom,  it  shall  be  deemed  that  the  temporary  stay permission is terminated. But, if prior to leaving the Kingdom, the alien is granted permission to re-enter by the competent official, and the re-entering alien is not a prohibited person under Section 12, and if the period of time previously permitted for a stay in the Kingdom is remaining, the alien shall be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the time which is still remaining.> 

 

[ningnong]

On 5/28/2024 at 10:40 AM, ningnong said:

The use of the word พักแรม in ข้อ ๒.๒ is interesting. It indicates that when returning to a residence, home, hotel etc, being exempt from the need to notify immigration again only applies to very short times away from home. I guess its up to Immigration to quantify how many days พักแรม is equal to. I assume a two month trip out of the country does not qualify as พักแรม.

Yesterday forum member soalbundy posted over in the Visa forum information which more or less confirms what was already posted here. And as can be expected its hard to get a definite answer for how many nights away before a new TM30 notification may be required.

 

Soalbundy Visa forum post June 15:
I asked about this law some time ago at Surin IO. It seems they don't take it too seriously, I asked hypothetically if I went to BK for the weekend would I have to report this, he hummed and haahed, ''how many nights''?  "Just two"  "No that will be OK"  "What about three nights"?  " I don't think it would be necessary, it concerns longer absences"   "How long"? He threw up his hands and just said 'it depends'

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/#comments

 

[grain]

I returned last week after spending 3 months in Australia, I have a non-imm retirement ext + multi-re-entry visa. A week after returning I popped into Korat Imm and told them I was back at my usual address and if they wanted to update anything on their system. They took my PP but didn't require any other docs or any forms to be filled in, just did some updating on the computer and printed out a new slip which they stapled into my PP. 

 

I often go away to other provinces for a week or two holidays but never contact Imm when I'm back home, I only do so when I've been out of the country. And so far it seems that Korat Imm are happy with that approach.

[ningnong]

5 hours ago, grain said:

I often go away to other provinces for a week or two holidays but never contact Imm when I'm back home, I only do so when I've been out of the country. And so far it seems that Korat Imm are happy with that approach.

That's more or less how I do it except I do the TM30 online. I return from overseas to the same address which is registered to my 'wife' and within a day do a new TM30 online. When traveling around Thailand we usually check in to hotels with my wife's ID or my drivers license. On the very rare occasion they do require my passport I just do a new TM30 when we return home. Really all quite painless and never had a problem at Khon Kaen Immigration at the yearly visit to renew permission to stay.

[khunjeff]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:41 PM, ningnong said:

The first paragraph of the regulation change of June 2020 states this regulation applies to "aliens who are permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily."

 

I think that would include anyone with an "admitted until stamp" in their passport tourist, visa exempt etc.

 

The last paragraph adds aliens that have a multiple entry visa or a re-entry permit to the group "aliens who are permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily" mentioned in the first paragraph.

 

The last paragraph is not adding any categories - it's separate and distinct from the first paragraph. 

 

First paragraph: You must, within 24 hours, report the stay of any foreigner who has been admitted to Thailand on a temporary basis (i.e., anyone other than a permanent resident).

 

Second paragraph: However, if a foreigner goes somewhere else temporarily and returns to their usual place of residence, you don't have to report them again.

 

Third paragraph: The exception in paragraph two applies only to foreigners with multiple entry visas or reentry permits. (In other words, if you come in visa exempt, go on a border run, and come back on another visa exempt, you do have to be reported again.)

[ningnong]

3 hours ago, khunjeff said:

 

The last paragraph is not adding any categories - it's separate and distinct from the first paragraph. 

 

First paragraph: You must, within 24 hours, report the stay of any foreigner who has been admitted to Thailand on a temporary basis (i.e., anyone other than a permanent resident)

Second paragraph: However, if a foreigner goes somewhere else temporarily and returns to their usual place of residence, you don't have to report them again.

 

Third paragraph: The exception in paragraph two applies only to foreigners with multiple entry visas or reentry permits. (In other words, if you come in visa exempt, go on a border run, and come back on another visa exempt, you do have to be reported again.)

Thanks for the post and I plan to think about it more when I have some free time to focus on what you said, right now I'm quite busy.

 

One initial thought I have is the exemption from reporting is only meant for occasional overnight stays away from home. What would be the reasoning for making that exception only for foreigners with multiple entry visas or reentry permits?

 

 

And those with yearly extensions of stay are conspicuously missing. I'm on a yearly extension of stay and I don't have a reentry permit does that mean I need to be reported after a couple of nights away from home?

 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, ningnong said:

Thanks for the post and I plan to think about it more when I have some free time to focus on what you said, right now I'm quite busy.

 

One initial thought I have is the exemption from reporting is only meant for occasional overnight stays away from home. What would be the reasoning for making that exception only for foreigners with multiple entry visas or reentry permits?

 

 

And those with yearly extensions of stay are conspicuously missing. I'm on a yearly extension of stay and I don't have a reentry permit does that mean I need to be reported after a couple of nights away from home?

 

My reading of the last paragraph is simply a clarification that the first paragraph includes persons that hold multiple entry and re entry permits.

 

This is given by the following part phrase.

ให้หมายความรวมถึงคนต่างด้าวที่ได้รับ

Is given the meaning of including foreigners/aliens that have received ....

 

[ningnong]

21 hours ago, khunjeff said:

Second paragraph: However, if a foreigner goes somewhere else temporarily and returns to their usual place of residence, you don't have to report them again.

I agree and that foreigner mentioned in paragraph 2.2 has already been identified in paragraph one (วรรคหนึ่ง) as a "foreigner who is permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily" which should include anyone with an "admitted until" date that isn't expired.

 

21 hours ago, khunjeff said:

Third paragraph: The exception in paragraph two applies only to foreigners with multiple entry visas or reentry permits. (In other words, if you come in visa exempt, go on a border run, and come back on another visa exempt, you do have to be reported again.)

That last paragraph includes (รวมถึง) foreigners with a multiple entry visa or a re-entry permit to the group of foreigners previously mentioned in paragraph one (วรรคหนึ่ง) "foreigners who are permitted to stay in the Kingdom temporarily"

 

 

If 2.2 was meant to only apply to foreigners with multiple entry visas or re-entry permits it would have specifically mentioned that in 2.2

 

It would make no sense to limit it to the two groups you suggest. Example, if someone on a tourist visa checks into a guest house for two weeks then at some point makes a three day trip to the seaside and returns to the guest house within that two week period of notification the manager already did a new notification would not be required.