5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[stefdec]

On 11/19/2024 at 12:18 AM, bbi1 said:

It's taken a few weeks already and you haven't received the DTV or a rejection yet? Seems like some red flags have been raised. My DTV was issued less than a week after the initial application through the eVisa website with an enter date put down about 2 months in the future. It also seems everyone else here have gotten theirs also in about a week or less.

Hey,

I guess they were busy. It took 17 days for them to come back to me. They asked for a list of documents about my activity, my company and my income. It was then accepted exactly a week after.

[rkh_]

Entered Thailand last week for the second time on a DTV.

 

After presenting the immigration officer with a printout of my visa paper, she spent about five minutes carefully reviewing each stamp on each passport page.   She then asked "how long do you plan to stay this time?"  At the time I felt as if a reply along the lines of "54 months with biannual extensions and border runs" would have been the WRONG answer.   So I said "6 months" and was allowed to pass.

 

Definitely left the immigration queue with the impression that immigration is skeptical of the DTV visa.   

 

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, rkh_ said:

Entered Thailand last week for the second time on a DTV.

 

After presenting the immigration officer with a printout of my visa paper, she spent about five minutes carefully reviewing each stamp on each passport page.   She then asked "how long do you plan to stay this time?"  At the time I felt as if a reply along the lines of "54 months with biannual extensions and border runs" would have been the WRONG answer.   So I said "6 months" and was allowed to pass.

 

Definitely left the immigration queue with the impression that immigration is skeptical of the DTV visa.   

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

[TPDH]

21 hours ago, stefdec said:

Hey,

I guess they were busy. It took 17 days for them to come back to me. They asked for a list of documents about my activity, my company and my income. It was then accepted exactly a week after.

What documents did you provide? And did you apply as a remote worker (employee) or as a freelancer? 

[Rob Browder]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

At worst, one might have to pay for agent-assisted entry, if coming into the known-bad entry points, including Bangkok airports.  The known-good entry points tend to follow the law, and therefore respect Visas and visa-exempt rules issued by the MFA.

[JimmyTobacco]

On 11/25/2024 at 10:19 AM, Briggsy said:

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

 

I don't really see on which grounds they would refuse entry to someone on a DTV. The visa clearly states it's multiple entry, valid for 5 years and 180 days at the time.

[Briggsy]

22 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

 

I don't really see on which grounds they would refuse entry to someone on a DTV. The visa clearly states it's multiple entry, valid for 5 years and 180 days at the time.

They happily deny entry for METV's where they are of the opinion that the foreigner has stayed in Thailand for too long. METV's are also multiple entry visas. They use the 2 catch-all sections in the legislation for denial of entry, Section 2 "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "suspected of working in the Kingdom".

 

Remember that a visa does not guarantee entry. Immigration has the right to deny entry. We have been down this road before. MFA issues visas via its embassies and Immigration does not honour them at the border.

 

However, we may be jumping the gun here. There are no reports of denial of entry for DTV-holders yet. It is very early days yet. I will be paying close attention. I suggested the first denials of entry may come filtering through in the middle of 2025 as that will be when the visas may be a year old. Foreigners staying for 350 days out of 365 in the first year will undoubtedly draw the attention of Immigration. What Immigration do is another matter.

[JimmyTobacco]

17 hours ago, Briggsy said:

They happily deny entry for METV's where they are of the opinion that the foreigner has stayed in Thailand for too long. METV's are also multiple entry visas. They use the 2 catch-all sections in the legislation for denial of entry, Section 2 "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "suspected of working in the Kingdom".

 

Remember that a visa does not guarantee entry. Immigration has the right to deny entry. We have been down this road before. MFA issues visas via its embassies and Immigration does not honour them at the border.

 

However, we may be jumping the gun here. There are no reports of denial of entry for DTV-holders yet. It is very early days yet. I will be paying close attention. I suggested the first denials of entry may come filtering through in the middle of 2025 as that will be when the visas may be a year old. Foreigners staying for 350 days out of 365 in the first year will undoubtedly draw the attention of Immigration. What Immigration do is another matter.

Well if I'm not mistaken, the METV is a visa for a maximum of 6 months, with the possibility to stay up to 60 days at a time and the option to extend on every entry as well. So METV does not give you real long term access to Thailand. I believe most people who attempt to stay in Thailand for a longer period of time on METV combine it with visa exempions, etc. Also, the purpose of the METV is to undertake tourist activities while using Thailand as your base or returning to Thailand several times in any case.

 

This is very different from DTV, which actually requires you to show (for most options) that you can work remotely. Therefore, the Thai immigration/government should be aware that most people on a DTV are already working from Thailand for their company or clients abroad. This is one of the requirements and purposes of the visa. Not necessarily to work, but to show that you can work remotely and have savings (therefore guaranteeing that you don't need to take up a job in Thailand). So it would be strange to deny someone entry for suspicion of working in the Kingdom. Also, the DTV requires you to show 500k baht in a bank account, so Section 2 would not really be likely either.

 

There is also the video online of the interview with the high immigration official or minister who claims the DTV holder basically only needs to spend one day outside of Thailand every 360 days. So come in for 180 days, extend for 180 days, spend 1 day outside, come back and get another 180 days, etc.

 

Anyway, I know in Thailand the reality might be different sometimes. So I will also be following the reports on this in the coming months. Nobody has stayed more than 180 days on a DTV yet, but that will soon change.

[Caldera]

4 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

There is also the video online of the interview with the high immigration official or minister who claims the DTV holder basically only needs to spend one day outside of Thailand every 360 days

 

That was a high-ranking MFA official. What immigration makes of the DTV is anyone's guess, but it's their boss (the Minister of the Interior) who counter-signed the then-PM's cabinet resolution to create the DTV.

 

I'd imagine a lot will depend on the level of abuse, as abuse always leads to crackdowns. That might lead to some immigration checkpoints becoming overzealous at some point, same as we've seen with other visas before.

[JimmyTobacco]

3 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

That was a high-ranking MFA official. What immigration makes of the DTV is anyone's guess, but it's their boss (the Minister of the Interior) who counter-signed the then-PM's cabinet resolution to create the DTV.

 

I'd imagine a lot will depend on the level of abuse, as abuse always leads to crackdowns. That might lead to some immigration checkpoints becoming overzealous at some point, same as we've seen with other visas before.

What do you call abuse if it's a multiply entry visa for 180 days at a time with a validity of 5 years?

[Briggsy]

@JimmyTobacco

 

I understand your confidence in the unlikelihood of denials of entry for DTV-holders and I hope that you are right and that the visa is honoured by Immigration for the full 5 years.

 

However, as somebody who has lived here since the 1990's and particularly through the noughties where many people were denied entry every single day, particularly at the 2 Bangkok airports, I don't fully share your confidence.

 

The METV had stringent financial requirements, not dissimilar to the DTV. From memory, I think it was £5000 in GBP compared to £11,000 in GBP.

 

The METV had to show ongoing employment in the UK (home country) just as the DTV workcation category does.

 

Both the METV and DTV have a "no employment prohibited" stamp on the visa.

 

Both the METV and DTV are multiple entry.

 

Previously the METV was not available in neighbouring countries (not sure about now). The DTV is though! Making the DTV easier to obtain. Immigration do not like long-stayers popping out to get a visa at Phnom Penh or Vientiane. It sets them off.

 

As you correctly stated the METV was 6 months (which could be stretched to 9 months) so there is no long term access unlike the DTV in which there is long term access. So the DTV is more likely to irk Immigration and lead to denials of entry.

 

Many people who used the METV never, absolutely never, used visa waiver entries as they flagged you up to Immigration. However, it didn't matter, they were still denied entry.

 

You are mistaken about the DTV requirements. Many people obtain them under the 'soft power' category by booking a dentist or doctor's appointment or cooking course in Thailand. Again this may well irk Immigration. There is no need to show employment in a foreign country under the 'soft power' category.

 

You seem to be unfamiliar with Section 2 denials of entry. There is no investigation, discussion or questioning regarding 'means of supporting oneself'. The stamp is just placed in the passport. It is a done deal. It is simply a catch-all legislative clause they use to justify (weakly) their actions.

 

As the last 20 years in Thailand have proved, the Immigration Department does not care about the MFA and certainly not an interview in English to a Youtuber. They care about the Interior Ministry and if somebody sufficiently senior there gives the instruction to deny entry to DTV-holders spending the majority of their time in Thailand, they will deny entry.

 

So, you can see, there is actually greater reason for Immigration to start denying entry to DTV-holders than to METV-holders. Will it happen? Well, it depends on what very senior officials decide. Let us hope my concerns are unfounded. If it does, I would not be in the least surprised, slightly disappointed, yes, but not surprised.