5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[stefdec]

On 11/19/2024 at 12:18 AM, bbi1 said:

It's taken a few weeks already and you haven't received the DTV or a rejection yet? Seems like some red flags have been raised. My DTV was issued less than a week after the initial application through the eVisa website with an enter date put down about 2 months in the future. It also seems everyone else here have gotten theirs also in about a week or less.

Hey,

I guess they were busy. It took 17 days for them to come back to me. They asked for a list of documents about my activity, my company and my income. It was then accepted exactly a week after.

[rkh_]

Entered Thailand last week for the second time on a DTV.

 

After presenting the immigration officer with a printout of my visa paper, she spent about five minutes carefully reviewing each stamp on each passport page.   She then asked "how long do you plan to stay this time?"  At the time I felt as if a reply along the lines of "54 months with biannual extensions and border runs" would have been the WRONG answer.   So I said "6 months" and was allowed to pass.

 

Definitely left the immigration queue with the impression that immigration is skeptical of the DTV visa.   

 

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, rkh_ said:

Entered Thailand last week for the second time on a DTV.

 

After presenting the immigration officer with a printout of my visa paper, she spent about five minutes carefully reviewing each stamp on each passport page.   She then asked "how long do you plan to stay this time?"  At the time I felt as if a reply along the lines of "54 months with biannual extensions and border runs" would have been the WRONG answer.   So I said "6 months" and was allowed to pass.

 

Definitely left the immigration queue with the impression that immigration is skeptical of the DTV visa.   

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

[TPDH]

21 hours ago, stefdec said:

Hey,

I guess they were busy. It took 17 days for them to come back to me. They asked for a list of documents about my activity, my company and my income. It was then accepted exactly a week after.

What documents did you provide? And did you apply as a remote worker (employee) or as a freelancer? 

[Rob Browder]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

At worst, one might have to pay for agent-assisted entry, if coming into the known-bad entry points, including Bangkok airports.  The known-good entry points tend to follow the law, and therefore respect Visas and visa-exempt rules issued by the MFA.

[JimmyTobacco]

On 11/25/2024 at 10:19 AM, Briggsy said:

Thanks for the report.

 

I had a feeling this was going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing denials of entry around the middle of 2025. It could well be me!

 

MFA says one thing, Immigration says the opposite.

 

No such thing as a free (or 10,000 Baht) lunch. 😒

 

I don't really see on which grounds they would refuse entry to someone on a DTV. The visa clearly states it's multiple entry, valid for 5 years and 180 days at the time.

[Briggsy]

22 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

 

I don't really see on which grounds they would refuse entry to someone on a DTV. The visa clearly states it's multiple entry, valid for 5 years and 180 days at the time.

They happily deny entry for METV's where they are of the opinion that the foreigner has stayed in Thailand for too long. METV's are also multiple entry visas. They use the 2 catch-all sections in the legislation for denial of entry, Section 2 "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "suspected of working in the Kingdom".

 

Remember that a visa does not guarantee entry. Immigration has the right to deny entry. We have been down this road before. MFA issues visas via its embassies and Immigration does not honour them at the border.

 

However, we may be jumping the gun here. There are no reports of denial of entry for DTV-holders yet. It is very early days yet. I will be paying close attention. I suggested the first denials of entry may come filtering through in the middle of 2025 as that will be when the visas may be a year old. Foreigners staying for 350 days out of 365 in the first year will undoubtedly draw the attention of Immigration. What Immigration do is another matter.

[JimmyTobacco]

17 hours ago, Briggsy said:

They happily deny entry for METV's where they are of the opinion that the foreigner has stayed in Thailand for too long. METV's are also multiple entry visas. They use the 2 catch-all sections in the legislation for denial of entry, Section 2 "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "suspected of working in the Kingdom".

 

Remember that a visa does not guarantee entry. Immigration has the right to deny entry. We have been down this road before. MFA issues visas via its embassies and Immigration does not honour them at the border.

 

However, we may be jumping the gun here. There are no reports of denial of entry for DTV-holders yet. It is very early days yet. I will be paying close attention. I suggested the first denials of entry may come filtering through in the middle of 2025 as that will be when the visas may be a year old. Foreigners staying for 350 days out of 365 in the first year will undoubtedly draw the attention of Immigration. What Immigration do is another matter.

Well if I'm not mistaken, the METV is a visa for a maximum of 6 months, with the possibility to stay up to 60 days at a time and the option to extend on every entry as well. So METV does not give you real long term access to Thailand. I believe most people who attempt to stay in Thailand for a longer period of time on METV combine it with visa exempions, etc. Also, the purpose of the METV is to undertake tourist activities while using Thailand as your base or returning to Thailand several times in any case.

 

This is very different from DTV, which actually requires you to show (for most options) that you can work remotely. Therefore, the Thai immigration/government should be aware that most people on a DTV are already working from Thailand for their company or clients abroad. This is one of the requirements and purposes of the visa. Not necessarily to work, but to show that you can work remotely and have savings (therefore guaranteeing that you don't need to take up a job in Thailand). So it would be strange to deny someone entry for suspicion of working in the Kingdom. Also, the DTV requires you to show 500k baht in a bank account, so Section 2 would not really be likely either.

 

There is also the video online of the interview with the high immigration official or minister who claims the DTV holder basically only needs to spend one day outside of Thailand every 360 days. So come in for 180 days, extend for 180 days, spend 1 day outside, come back and get another 180 days, etc.

 

Anyway, I know in Thailand the reality might be different sometimes. So I will also be following the reports on this in the coming months. Nobody has stayed more than 180 days on a DTV yet, but that will soon change.

[Caldera]

4 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

There is also the video online of the interview with the high immigration official or minister who claims the DTV holder basically only needs to spend one day outside of Thailand every 360 days

 

That was a high-ranking MFA official. What immigration makes of the DTV is anyone's guess, but it's their boss (the Minister of the Interior) who counter-signed the then-PM's cabinet resolution to create the DTV.

 

I'd imagine a lot will depend on the level of abuse, as abuse always leads to crackdowns. That might lead to some immigration checkpoints becoming overzealous at some point, same as we've seen with other visas before.

[JimmyTobacco]

3 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

That was a high-ranking MFA official. What immigration makes of the DTV is anyone's guess, but it's their boss (the Minister of the Interior) who counter-signed the then-PM's cabinet resolution to create the DTV.

 

I'd imagine a lot will depend on the level of abuse, as abuse always leads to crackdowns. That might lead to some immigration checkpoints becoming overzealous at some point, same as we've seen with other visas before.

What do you call abuse if it's a multiply entry visa for 180 days at a time with a validity of 5 years?

[Briggsy]

@JimmyTobacco

 

I understand your confidence in the unlikelihood of denials of entry for DTV-holders and I hope that you are right and that the visa is honoured by Immigration for the full 5 years.

 

However, as somebody who has lived here since the 1990's and particularly through the noughties where many people were denied entry every single day, particularly at the 2 Bangkok airports, I don't fully share your confidence.

 

The METV had stringent financial requirements, not dissimilar to the DTV. From memory, I think it was £5000 in GBP compared to £11,000 in GBP.

 

The METV had to show ongoing employment in the UK (home country) just as the DTV workcation category does.

 

Both the METV and DTV have a "no employment prohibited" stamp on the visa.

 

Both the METV and DTV are multiple entry.

 

Previously the METV was not available in neighbouring countries (not sure about now). The DTV is though! Making the DTV easier to obtain. Immigration do not like long-stayers popping out to get a visa at Phnom Penh or Vientiane. It sets them off.

 

As you correctly stated the METV was 6 months (which could be stretched to 9 months) so there is no long term access unlike the DTV in which there is long term access. So the DTV is more likely to irk Immigration and lead to denials of entry.

 

Many people who used the METV never, absolutely never, used visa waiver entries as they flagged you up to Immigration. However, it didn't matter, they were still denied entry.

 

You are mistaken about the DTV requirements. Many people obtain them under the 'soft power' category by booking a dentist or doctor's appointment or cooking course in Thailand. Again this may well irk Immigration. There is no need to show employment in a foreign country under the 'soft power' category.

 

You seem to be unfamiliar with Section 2 denials of entry. There is no investigation, discussion or questioning regarding 'means of supporting oneself'. The stamp is just placed in the passport. It is a done deal. It is simply a catch-all legislative clause they use to justify (weakly) their actions.

 

As the last 20 years in Thailand have proved, the Immigration Department does not care about the MFA and certainly not an interview in English to a Youtuber. They care about the Interior Ministry and if somebody sufficiently senior there gives the instruction to deny entry to DTV-holders spending the majority of their time in Thailand, they will deny entry.

 

So, you can see, there is actually greater reason for Immigration to start denying entry to DTV-holders than to METV-holders. Will it happen? Well, it depends on what very senior officials decide. Let us hope my concerns are unfounded. If it does, I would not be in the least surprised, slightly disappointed, yes, but not surprised.

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, JimmyTobacco said:

What do you call abuse if it's a multiply entry visa for 180 days at a time with a validity of 5 years?

 

Well "abuse" can be many things, broadly speaking it's foreigners staying in Thailand and doing things that aren't in line with their visa or extension.

 

Historical examples: Language school Non-Ed visa holders who didn't study. Volunteers on Non-O visas who didn't do volunteer work. Once that became widespread, a crackdown followed.

 

If too many DTV holders are caught working illegally in Thailand, taking or selling drugs or engaging in other illegal activities, the same can be expected to happen.

[Rob Browder]

23 hours ago, Briggsy said:

They happily deny entry for METV's where they are of the opinion that the foreigner has stayed in Thailand for too long. METV's are also multiple entry visas. They use the 2 catch-all sections in the legislation for denial of entry, Section 2 "no appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "suspected of working in the Kingdom".

Neither of those legal reasons mention "staying in Thailand too long," so when Immigration states this as the reason to entrants, they are admitting violating Thai law - especially when combined with no evidence presented to justify either valid-reason for the denial, and no list of acceptable documentation or opportunity to prove a "means of support." 

 

It is not a "coincidence" that, at the known-bad entry points - the ONLY locations where these types of denials of entry occur - they offer an "agent" service for repeat-entries.  It is possible that DTV holders will be subject to such extortion tactics as well, though hopefully this will not expand to currently safe (= law-abiding) points of entry.

 

As to those violating the terms of any visa / engaging in criminal activity, these should be prosecuted on a case-by-case basis.  Set an example, and put them through the ringer, and that solves this problem.  Criminals, and everyone else, being coerced to pay off immigration via agents does not solve this problem.  Using some isolated cases, blown up in "the news," to justify continuing extortion schemes, is reprehensible behavior.

[sikishrory]

On 11/25/2024 at 7:19 AM, rkh_ said:

Entered Thailand last week for the second time on a DTV.

 

After presenting the immigration officer with a printout of my visa paper, she spent about five minutes carefully reviewing each stamp on each passport page.   She then asked "how long do you plan to stay this time?"  At the time I felt as if a reply along the lines of "54 months with biannual extensions and border runs" would have been the WRONG answer.   So I said "6 months" and was allowed to pass.

 

Definitely left the immigration queue with the impression that immigration is skeptical of the DTV visa.   

 

 

 

 

This could be a trick question. 

You answer <60 days and she decides to stamp you visa exempt instead.

I just read a report online of something similar that I'm having trouble finding now. That was a different scenario but just got me thinking

 

[Briggsy]

Another question they like to ask is "What you do in Thailand?"

 

The truthful answer is I have a DTV visa under the WORKcation category which allows me to WORK remotely. The issue is the visa is stamped with "Employment prohibited". I doubt the IO is going to quickly grasp the nuanced difference between 'working remotely' and 'being employed in Thailand'.

 

I will therefore avoid the word 'work' at all costs and perhaps use a stock answer, 'abide by the conditions of the visa' or alternatively, more accessibly, 'go Pattaya'. Answering in Thai may also give the wrong impression (see earlier 'work' comment).

 

It's a minefield! 🙂

[JimmyTobacco]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Another question they like to ask is "What you do in Thailand?"

 

The truthful answer is I have a DTV visa under the WORKcation category which allows me to WORK remotely. The issue is the visa is stamped with "Employment prohibited". I doubt the IO is going to quickly grasp the nuanced difference between 'working remotely' and 'being employed in Thailand'.

 

I will therefore avoid the word 'work' at all costs and perhaps use a stock answer, 'abide by the conditions of the visa' or alternatively, more accessibly, 'go Pattaya'. Answering in Thai may also give the wrong impression (see earlier 'work' comment).

 

It's a minefield! 🙂

Mmm yeah I would also not use the word work. If they asked me if I am working while in Thailand, I would probably also answer that I have no work at the moment.

[Marvo]

Could any of you legendry learn-ed folk please help with comments on the extremely complicated scenario outlined below, if able:

I've  lived and worked (with work permit) in Thailand for many years, staying on extensions based on marriage, but now may end my employment with my wife's Thai Co. as am only going to be here in LOS for 5 months each year, with the intention of working remotely.

I would like to explore surrendering my WP and changing over from a Non-im B visa to a DTV,  as during the time I spend in Thailand, I will now be working remotely for my small UK company. Benefits seem to be, I could keep 500,000 THB equivalent in a UK account (Gov't Premium Bond savings account?) and still (legally) work remotely for my UK Co. while in Thailand. OK so far?

I'm guessing I'd be pioneering, suspecting there are no reports yet of someone attempting to go from a Non-Im B to a DTV.
I do wonder what mental contortions that would put Thai DTV officials through though?

Any helpful thoughts, anyone?

 

Edited Thursday at 10:26 PM by Marvo
clarity

[Briggsy]

Initially the London Thai Embassy will be looking for an account with monthly statements holding the required funds (£13,000, can't remember) so you need a monthly statement from a current account. A Premium bonds bond record will be rejected. The money does not have to season so you can just move it in to the current account a week before the statement date.

 

Application must be made via the online evisa and you need to be outside of Thailand when you apply.

 

Think of the two steps are separate and discrete. The cancellation of the work permit and permission to stay based on the Non-Imm B and then the application for a DTV visa. They will not impact one another.

 

On a wider point, are you sure you want a DTV? As a spouse of a Thai, you have other options which may be better such as a non-Imm O visa with the option of extension based on marriage to a Thai.

[sikishrory]

Report of my failed DTV application based on muay thai at savannakhet this morning.
Arrived at 8.37am. Just 3 people ahead of me in the queue. No mass lines like in google reviews.
Opened at 9.
I came prepared with literally about 50 documents for every scenario I could think of. Backup applications, extra photos, 5 pens, copies of everything, backup bank statements showing well beyond the required amount.
However I handed over just the required docs:
Passport and signed copy
10,000b unmarked crisp bills.
Application form.
A statement from kasikorn with 1.2 mill baht in there for over 6 months in thai language and stamped by the bank.
Muay thai docs (all signed):
Acceptance letter with letterhead in thai and english. Very well written and professional from the gym.
A copy of their registration as a muay thai gym with the sports authority of thailand.
A copy of the persons Thai id card the registered the place as a gym in the above document.
A copy of the receipt for 12,000 baht. Letterhead etc.

She flicked through briefly in about 3 seconds. Didn't really read anything. Said she wants the "business licence". I pointed out there is a copy of the registration as a muay thai gym in front of her. Nope.
I get the business licence emailed through and print it and return to the window. Try again.
This time she looks more closely and actually reads the documents I hand over.
Now she has a problem with the business licence having a different name to the gym. This gym has a cafe and few other things going on. Company names do not always match the business name as is common knowledge. Anyway nope.
She gives me a phone number and says they can call her.
I send that to the gym owner and sit refreshing my crap internet in gmail for 30 mins. It gets to 10.50am queue closing in ten minutes so I give it a last try...
"Did they call"? No she says. I see in my email the gym says they will try to call. I have given up. I say to her I spent 50,000 baht, catch 6 planes to come here for a week - "you can't do anything"?
Nope.

I tried to find successful DTV stories online for this embassy. I think there is 1. Otherwise I see about 3 similar fail reports.
I thought I had a better chance as I was using muay thai (less complicated) and the docs from the gym seemed sufficient. I also could see holes in some of the other stories I read. Bank statement not notarised, not long enough, no letters from company etc.

I wouldn't have chose here but I messed up and booked a plane and hotel to do it in vientiane before seeing the appointments were unavailble until 19 Dec. I did check and they appeared to be availble but when you actually click they are not available. So instead of lose the flights and room I switched to this nightmare embassy.
I would say to anyone wanting to do DTV at Savannakhet just don't. Don't bother. Don't think you are different or have all the docs more than the failed people before you. The lady is looking for any little thing she can. I can see the motor running in her little head scanning for whatever she can think of to deny you next.

A man before me seemed to be applying for a tourist visa. The lady requested a copy of his work permit as he previously had a non-b. So I also copied that accross the road incase as previously I was non-b.

The queue seemed mostly myanmar nationals. Saw a couple of USA, filipino, laos, france, arab as well. It was not very busy. Other people were getting denied too and having lots of issues with the lady.

Not sure the plan now but I guess I will be entering visa exempt on my flight back then applying for DTV again in the region or in Australia. I have to re-evaluate.
Hope this helps someone as there were barely any reports online for this embassy.

[JDMCanuck]

Any reports of denial based on too old? I plan to keep working and not retire as I have been with the same company for 20 years,  I can continue with them as long as I wish. I enjoy it, make good money doing it, and can do it from my computer and phone. I am financially stable and more than meet the financial requirements. The IO could google me to see I am legitimate. Questions is, because I am 73 , (still in good shape, lol), is that too old for the DTV? 

[Marvo]

On 11/29/2024 at 1:27 AM, Briggsy said:

Initially the London Thai Embassy will be looking for an account with monthly statements holding the required funds (£13,000, can't remember) so you need a monthly statement from a current account. A Premium bonds bond record will be rejected. The money does not have to season so you can just move it in to the current account a week before the statement date.

 

Application must be made via the online evisa and you need to be outside of Thailand when you apply.

 

Think of the two steps are separate and discrete. The cancellation of the work permit and permission to stay based on the Non-Imm B and then the application for a DTV visa. They will not impact one another.

 

On a wider point, are you sure you want a DTV? As a spouse of a Thai, you have other options which may be better such as a non-Imm O visa with the option of extension based on marriage to a Thai.

Thanks Briggsy.
My Non-Imm B gets renewed every year based on marriage, along with the normal mountain of paperwork.

My main concern is can I wait until the DTV visa is approved before cancelling my Non-Imm B and surrendering my work permit?

I am also concerned re what eyebrows would be raised when I apply for the DTV - stating that I will - going forward - not be working for a Thai company, but will from then on work (remotely) for an overseas company. Should I be expecting an unannounced knock at the door to see what I am up to?

Edited 4 hours ago by Marvo
for clarity

[JDMCanuck]

IO may not check the visa but they will / have the authority to certainly check you. That is their job, yes no?  they are last line of defence for entrants in any country. That's why they have the power to deny entry.