5 year multiple entry DTV visa (Destination Thailand) from 2024-xx-xx

[AreYouGerman]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:03 AM, Phillip9 said:

 

The root domain suffix .in (India) should give you a clue that it is not an official Thai government website.  It's just a worthless spam site reposting random probably false information.

 

.in.th has nothing to do with India. in.th is managed by THNic as well as co.th and the others.

[Karma80]

44 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

Guys!

 

Any new updates or rumors I didn't hear yet?

 

I didn't come to the forum for a while and didn't look at anything, but it still looks like nothing new has evolved around the DTV.

No. Thirteen pages of conjecture and speculation. Nobody knows how this will finally look.

[El Matador]

7 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

Guys!

 

Any new updates or rumors I didn't hear yet?

 

I didn't come to the forum for a while and didn't look at anything, but it still looks like nothing new has evolved around the DTV.

 

It seems we are still at the same point. Nothing new for visa exemptions either.

 

I hope they didn't change their mind like they often do.

[danyuchn]

If things go like what this official said, it seems that DTV visa holders can substantially reside in Thailand for the whole 5-year period with occasional border runs to renew their 180 days.

 

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

---

 

---

Speaker: Mr Naruchai Ninnad - Deputy Director-General of the Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Event: July 5, TAT Digital Nomads Connect in One Nimman

 

Visa Characteristics:

• Duration: 5 years, multiple entry.

• Validity vs. Length of Stay:

  • Visa valid for 5 years from issuance.

  • Each stay up to 180 days.

  • Extendable once per stay for an additional 180 days (maximum continuous stay of 360 days).

  • Must leave Thailand for minimum 1 day after 360 days to reset for another 180+180(extension) days stay.

• Visa Fees: 10,000 THB.

• Application Locations: Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate, or online via Thai e-visa.

• Availability Date: Within 15 days from July 5, 2024.

Intended Groups:

1. Remote workers, freelancers, digital nomads.

2. Participants in activities like Muay Thai, Thai cooking, seminars, music festivals, etc.

3. Families of DTV visa holders (spouse and dependent children under 20 years old).

Visa Requirements:

• Financial Evidence: Proof of funds no less than 500,000 THB (bank account, retirement funds account, etc.). This proof is required during both application and extension but the funds do not need to stay in your account during your stay in Thailand.

• Other Documents:

  • Passport or travel documents.

  • Photograph.

  • Document indicating current location.

  • Proof of employment in another country (employment contract or portfolio of projects working on).

  • If attending a course, a letter of acceptance.

  • For family members, proof of relationship (marriage or birth certificate).

Tax Information:

• Will DTV visa holders be taxed? No! ←This is verbatim what the speaker, Mr. Ninnad, said. However, the following conversation between him and a person who asked a question also occurred during the Q & A session:

• Questioner: So, digital nomads will probably be going to the border after 6 months and coming back, and that means they’ll have to pay tax.

• Mr. Ninnad: Yes if you receive your income from here, yes. If you do not bring your income here, you receive it from abroad, from another country, you don’t have to pay tax.

---

source:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Ka6DhoLVjc1HvuV3auB6yzQf74RsEtiCUdC1JsboeUz4URPMh9goXD9cpsGmNm4Fl&id=100055797049621

[Pattaya57]

1 hour ago, danyuchn said:

 

If things go like what this official said, it seems that DTV visa holders can substantially reside in Thailand for the whole 5-year period with occasional border runs to renew their 180 days.

 

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

---

 

---

Speaker: Mr Naruchai Ninnad - Deputy Director-General of the Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Event: July 5, TAT Digital Nomads Connect in One Nimman

 

Visa Characteristics:

• Duration: 5 years, multiple entry.

• Validity vs. Length of Stay:

  • Visa valid for 5 years from issuance.

  • Each stay up to 180 days.

  • Extendable once per stay for an additional 180 days (maximum continuous stay of 360 days).

  • Must leave Thailand for minimum 1 day after 360 days to reset for another 180+180(extension) days stay.

• Visa Fees: 10,000 THB.

• Application Locations: Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate, or online via Thai e-visa.

• Availability Date: Within 15 days from July 5, 2024.

Intended Groups:

1. Remote workers, freelancers, digital nomads.

2. Participants in activities like Muay Thai, Thai cooking, seminars, music festivals, etc.

3. Families of DTV visa holders (spouse and dependent children under 20 years old).

Visa Requirements:

• Financial Evidence: Proof of funds no less than 500,000 THB (bank account, retirement funds account, etc.). This proof is required during both application and extension but the funds do not need to stay in your account during your stay in Thailand.

• Other Documents:

  • Passport or travel documents.

  • Photograph.

  • Document indicating current location.

  • Proof of employment in another country (employment contract or portfolio of projects working on).

  • If attending a course, a letter of acceptance.

  • For family members, proof of relationship (marriage or birth certificate).

Tax Information:

• Will DTV visa holders be taxed? No! ←This is verbatim what the speaker, Mr. Ninnad, said. However, the following conversation between him and a person who asked a question also occurred during the Q & A session:

• Questioner: So, digital nomads will probably be going to the border after 6 months and coming back, and that means they’ll have to pay tax.

• Mr. Ninnad: Yes if you receive your income from here, yes. If you do not bring your income here, you receive it from abroad, from another country, you don’t have to pay tax.

---

source:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Ka6DhoLVjc1HvuV3auB6yzQf74RsEtiCUdC1JsboeUz4URPMh9goXD9cpsGmNm4Fl&id=100055797049621

So yet another nobody stating made up rules as fact rather than the speculation it actually is

[Karma80]

13 hours ago, danyuchn said:

If things go like what this official said, it seems that DTV visa holders can substantially reside in Thailand for the whole 5-year period with occasional border runs to renew their 180 days.

 

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

Actually, that would be pretty terrible. The model presented here would collapse all other visa types and make them irrelevant, except LTR and those needing a WP employed directly by a Thai business. The entry bar is so relatively low that Thailand would immediately become the dumping ground for remote workers everywhere looking for lower CoL, tax benefits, or as an easy exodus from countries that are seeing outflows - Russia, China, and who knows, even the USA in a post election world.

 

Rental prices would soar as we saw after the Russian-Ukraine invasion and tensions rise.

 

I also don't believe for a moment there would be a tax exemption written into the visa. There's just some giant sized, and incorrect, assumptions being made by the speaker based loosely on the current tax evironment. 

 

 

[Celsius]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:34 PM, save the frogs said:

 

Everyone interprets reality differently.

Try this psychology test.

What do you see in this photo?

 

 

Wow.... clever.

 

It's an old ulgy woman and it has always been an old ugly women since I first saw it as a 7 year old

[Celsius]

14 hours ago, danyuchn said:

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

I am offering 100,000 for a five year (tourist) elite visa.

 

Deduct 20,000 baht for each year left.

 

Please send your offers @celsiusthecryptoking

 

 

[Persuader0963]

15 hours ago, danyuchn said:

 

If things go like what this official said, it seems that DTV visa holders can substantially reside in Thailand for the whole 5-year period with occasional border runs to renew their 180 days.

 

Best news for nomads, worst news for those holding 5-year elite visa, isn't it?

 

---

 

---

Speaker: Mr Naruchai Ninnad - Deputy Director-General of the Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Event: July 5, TAT Digital Nomads Connect in One Nimman

 

Visa Characteristics:

• Duration: 5 years, multiple entry.

• Validity vs. Length of Stay:

  • Visa valid for 5 years from issuance.

  • Each stay up to 180 days.

  • Extendable once per stay for an additional 180 days (maximum continuous stay of 360 days).

  • Must leave Thailand for minimum 1 day after 360 days to reset for another 180+180(extension) days stay.

• Visa Fees: 10,000 THB.

• Application Locations: Royal Thai Embassy, Royal Thai Consulate, or online via Thai e-visa.

• Availability Date: Within 15 days from July 5, 2024.

Intended Groups:

1. Remote workers, freelancers, digital nomads.

2. Participants in activities like Muay Thai, Thai cooking, seminars, music festivals, etc.

3. Families of DTV visa holders (spouse and dependent children under 20 years old).

Visa Requirements:

• Financial Evidence: Proof of funds no less than 500,000 THB (bank account, retirement funds account, etc.). This proof is required during both application and extension but the funds do not need to stay in your account during your stay in Thailand.

• Other Documents:

  • Passport or travel documents.

  • Photograph.

  • Document indicating current location.

  • Proof of employment in another country (employment contract or portfolio of projects working on).

  • If attending a course, a letter of acceptance.

  • For family members, proof of relationship (marriage or birth certificate).

Tax Information:

• Will DTV visa holders be taxed? No! ←This is verbatim what the speaker, Mr. Ninnad, said. However, the following conversation between him and a person who asked a question also occurred during the Q & A session:

• Questioner: So, digital nomads will probably be going to the border after 6 months and coming back, and that means they’ll have to pay tax.

• Mr. Ninnad: Yes if you receive your income from here, yes. If you do not bring your income here, you receive it from abroad, from another country, you don’t have to pay tax.

---

source:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Ka6DhoLVjc1HvuV3auB6yzQf74RsEtiCUdC1JsboeUz4URPMh9goXD9cpsGmNm4Fl&id=100055797049621

 

I'll believe it when I see it. Thought it looks like it's getting closer by the day.

[Rob Browder]

21 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

So yet another nobody stating made up rules as fact rather than the speculation it actually is

Deputy Director-General of the Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

 

Better than the prior sources.  Still, I would not bet the farm on anything until we see it implemented, and get back reports from folks using it - including for their subsequent entries.  Even then, they can always change-policy mid-stream if they don't like the results.

[Rob Browder]

8 hours ago, Karma80 said:

Actually, that would be pretty terrible. The model presented here would collapse all other visa types and make them irrelevant, except LTR and those needing a WP employed directly by a Thai business.

I would continue with retirement-extensions for 1900 Baht / year.  Even if paying an agent, it is relatively cheap, and no border-runs.

 

9 hours ago, Karma80 said:

The entry bar is so relatively low that Thailand would immediately become the dumping ground for remote workers everywhere looking for lower CoL, tax benefits, or as an easy exodus from countries that are seeing outflows - Russia, China, and who knows, even the USA in a post election world.

Less than 1/4 of USA-Citizen STEM workers can find work in their fields in the USA, as-is, thanks to USA Visa-Policy (H1B, OPT, etc).  Their working remote here would not be a bad thing.  

As there is no "welfare" for foreigners here, I don't see the downside, since any coming here would have their own income-stream - except ...

9 hours ago, Karma80 said:

Rental prices would soar

THIS.  Especially for low-cost rentals ~3500 Baht /mo and less - plentiful in Bangkok, Pattaya, etc.  But, if you own a condo, you are set.  And, if you rent higher-end places, I don't see it affecting these much.

 

I would also be surprised if there was a "tax exemption" for over 180-day folks with this visa.  But, many speculate that tax was not primarily targeted at ex-pats - so who knows.  Maybe they figure they got their piece with the visa-fee.

[Lorry]

On 7/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, danyuchn said:

Mr. Ninnad: Yes if you receive your income from here, yes. If you do not bring your income here, you receive it from abroad, from another country, you don’t have to pay tax.

Correct.  This is the current (2024) law: income from abroad,  not remitted to Thailand,  is tax free.

What will the digital nomads live on?

Many will try to bring their income into Thailand using illegal tricks, so expect stricter controls.

 

If the law changes as suggested by the Thai Revenue Department, and worldwide taxation is introduced,  they have to pay Thai income tax on all of their income. 

 

Edited July 11 by Lorry

[Karma80]

33 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Correct.  This is the current (2024) law: income from abroad,  not remitted to Thailand,  is tax free.

What will the digital nomads live on?

Many will try to bring their income into Thailand using illegal tricks, so expect stricter controls.

 

If the law changes as suggested by the Thai Revenue Department, and worldwide taxation is introduced,  they have to pay Thai income tax on all of their income. 

 

It's my understanding that if a remote worker performs work in Thailand (e.g., on a laptop) and funds are remitted overseas, it's still Thai-sourced income and is taxable if they are a tax resident (ie spending over 180 days per year). There is also the question of creating a PE for an overseas employer and any DTA for the individual and businesses concerned. Enforcement is another thing - TiT.

 

It could all be sorted out when they release the visa details, and maybe some tax exemption as the LTR has. But I don't imagine the intent will be to create a five year visa for effectively tax free residence.

[Phillip9]

41 minutes ago, Lorry said:

What will the digital nomads live on?

You don't think someone who travels constantly and lives a nomadic life would have savings to live off of?  Most digital nomads would have enough savings so that they would never need to remit income to Thailand.

[Lorry]

23 minutes ago, Karma80 said:

It's my understanding that if a remote worker performs work in Thailand (e.g., on a laptop) and funds are remitted overseas, it's still Thai-sourced income and is taxable if they are a tax resident (ie spending over 180 days per year). There is also the question of creating a PE for an overseas employer and any DTA for the individual and businesses concerned. Enforcement is another thing - TiT.

 

It could all be sorted out when they release the visa details, and maybe some tax exemption as the LTR has. But I don't imagine the intent will be to create a five year visa for effectively tax free residence.

What is PE? Proof of employment?

Edited July 11 by Lorry

[Lorry]

13 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

You don't think someone who travels constantly and lives a nomadic life would have savings to live off of?  Most digital nomads would have enough savings so that they would never need to remit income to Thailand.

Most digital nomads could live 5 years from savings?

 

[Lorry]

On 7/10/2024 at 8:40 AM, Karma80 said:

 

Actually, that would be pretty terrible. The model presented here would collapse all other visa types and make them irrelevant, except LTR and those needing a WP employed directly by a Thai business. The entry bar is so relatively low that Thailand would immediately become the dumping ground for remote workers everywhere looking for lower CoL, tax benefits, or as an easy exodus from countries that are seeing outflows - Russia, China, and who knows, even the USA in a post election world.

 

Rental prices would soar as we saw after the Russian-Ukraine invasion and tensions rise.

 

I also don't believe for a moment there would be a tax exemption written into the visa. There's just some giant sized, and incorrect, assumptions being made by the speaker based loosely on the current tax evironment. 

 

 

Good post. 

Not only rental prices would soar,  other prices, too.

 

Many places in Thailand would become unlivable, like Barcelona.

But of course,  this is exactly the intention. 

 

[Lorry]

19 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

I would continue with retirement-extensions for 1900 Baht / year.  Even if paying an agent, it is relatively cheap, and no border-runs.

But not tax free.

(And free reentries)

Edited July 11 by Lorry

[Lorry]

19 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

there is no "welfare" for foreigners here,

Sheryl will be very busy 

And gofundme

Edited July 11 by Lorry

[mokwit]

On 7/10/2024 at 8:40 AM, Karma80 said:

 

Actually, that would be pretty terrible. The model presented here would collapse all other visa types and make them irrelevant, except LTR and those needing a WP employed directly by a Thai business. The entry bar is so relatively low that Thailand would immediately become the dumping ground for remote workers everywhere looking for lower CoL, tax benefits, or as an easy exodus from countries that are seeing outflows - Russia, China, and who knows, even the USA in a post election world.

 

Rental prices would soar as we saw after the Russian-Ukraine invasion and tensions rise.

 

I also don't believe for a moment there would be a tax exemption written into the visa. There's just some giant sized, and incorrect, assumptions being made by the speaker based loosely on the current tax evironment. 

 

 

Indians sleeping 4 to a room can lower the rental of any condo. Probably share the same THB 500k too unless there is a seasoning requirement (probably will be)..

Edited July 11 by mokwit

[Karma80]

22 hours ago, Lorry said:

What is PE? Proof of employment?

Permenant Establishment - When a company has a remote worker positioned in a Thailand, the question of creating a permenant establishment arises. The classic example would be a remote worker who owns a company overseas which is their vehicle for employment, and invoicing clients, and a very common scenario for contractors. If that remote worker manages his overseas business from within Thailand, and his work from within the country is Thai sourced (which is likely is - because he's on a laptop working from his leased condo), then it could be argued that the company has created a permenant establishment, and the company could be liable for Thai taxation to the extend of the income derived by the PE. Double Taxation agreements usually define a PE.

 

I doubt Thai RD would be much interested in it. But it's a consideration for remote workers, if for some reason they were audited by the RD overall.

 

Edited July 12 by Karma80

[Pattaya57]

This press release says 4 announcements effective 15 July (DTV is announcement #3)

 

“Minister of Interior Anutin Charnvirakul has reviewed and signed all four announcements. They are now in the process of being presented to the prime minister for signing. After that, they will be published in the Royal Gazette, and all announcements will take effect July 15 onwards.”

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/tourists-from-93-countries-can-now-come-to-thailand-visa-free

[El Matador]

Still need to see all the details in a proper official annuncement.

It seems a bit too good to be true. But let's see.

 

The bad side of this massive opening is it could be too much, and they could reverse it in the near future (one of Thai specialities)

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, El Matador said:

Still need to see all the details in a proper official annuncement...

 

The publication in the Royal Gazette will be the proper public announcement, but sometimes and particularly when it refers to immigration matters, the announcement will say that a designated government department will issue necessary regulations for the implementation. For example, I can imagine that a new version of the the Order of the Royal Thai Police with the criteria and requirements for extensions of the permission to stay in the Kingdom is to come.

 

So, let's not pop the Champagne bottles quite yet.

[DonniePeverley]

Hang on so this is basically allowing people to live in Thailand for 5 years ?

 

That's wrong on so many levels. 

 

So they have just opened up the borders to the world to come and live here without barely and checks and controls (other than the very low savings required).

 

This is going to push up rents like nothing else. Once rents go up, local Thai's will also face the living squeeze and will also want more money, which will then push up costs to the consumer. Never mind the effects to the consumer and locals who will face so many undeseriables. 

 

Only one set of people to benefit from this and that's the property owners. 

[DonniePeverley]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/10/world/europe/barcelona-tourism-squirt-guns.html

 

[Pattaya57]

1 minute ago, DonniePeverley said:

Hang on so this is basically allowing people to live in Thailand for 5 years ?

Well no, to live in Thailand for 180 days per year for 5 years. 

[JoeyMac]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Well no, to live in Thailand for 180 days per year for 5 years. 

 

Yes but you can extend to 360 days. 

 

Has there not been any public consultation on if Thail citizens are okay for them to basically open the borders for people to come and live (not just holiday)?

Edited July 12 by JoeyMac

[JoeyMac]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:54 AM, Lorry said:

Good post. 

Not only rental prices would soar,  other prices, too.

 

Many places in Thailand would become unlivable, like Barcelona.

But of course,  this is exactly the intention. 

 

 

 

If things become unafforable for Thai's, especially living accomdoation ... then that drives up wages, which is then passed onto consumer. Prices go up. 

[Lorry]

From the posted article in the NYT:

 

Mr. Petzold suggested that some of the anger was misplaced, citing a high number of expatriates and digital nomads, who bring higher salaries to the competitive rental market.

“These people have more impact on the city and everything than the actual tourists,”