[OT] heavily discounting of EV in Australia [OT]

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

BYD has been making significant strides in the Australian market. Here’s a summary of their recent sales performance and ambitious goals:

 

In 2023, BYD sold 12,438 vehicles in Australia

Their intention is to double that number to 25,000 in 2024

Currently, they are 113% up on sales compared to the previous year

 

The EV bubble has most definitely not burst in Australia.

“Growth is up this year but it’s slowed,” he says. “The early adopters have embraced the technology but it’s proving to be a bit tricky to get the mass market to adopt EVs.”

Cutting prices is an easy way to spur demand, which Costello says is at the heart of the recent cuts.

“You’re not cutting prices if the market is healthy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jun/01/ev-electric-vehicle-sales-prices-australia

Its all down to supply and demand at the moment supply outweighs demand hence price cuts 

Australia model sales for April show that the top 4 sellers are large SUV and 4 X 4

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/australias-ev-sales-boom-falters-145948/

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

 

 

 

Good that we have contributors like you with well researched answers and statements. 😉 

 

That's the beauty for those EV sellers. Many of their buyers are those do-gooders who want to be seen as the smart green people who save the world. But somehow their longing to be one of the "look, I am the good guy" people is higher than their capacity to see reality.

Don't think you will find many greenies on this forum key terms associated with EV's on this forum are

performance and 3.8 relating to 0-100 km/h 

[connda]

50 minutes ago, dutch boy said:

Interesting article, and so very true but the global alarmists will keep buying them and keep losing money. So very funny.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, dutch boy said:

the global alarmists will keep buying them and keep losing money. So very funny.

You need to support your comments with some evidence. Nobody is interested in uninformed opinions.

 

I don’t pay to fuel my EVs as they are powered by solar.

 

V2L helps me from having an electric bill.
 

Road tax on EVs is considerably less than ICE vehicles. A diesel pickup can cost ฿5,000/yr

 

“The DLT attributed the jump to the annual tax break for newly registered complete built-up EVs, which began in May last year and will run until November 2025.

 

Under the measure, EVs weighing under 1,800 kilogrammes will be taxed 320 baht annually instead of 1,600 baht.“

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2024/03/05/tax-breaks-triple-thailands-electric-vehicle-registrations

[OneMoreFarang]

48 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Don't think you will find many greenies on this forum key terms associated with EV's on this forum are

performance and 3.8 relating to 0-100 km/h 

Really?

And I thought most of the members here are a little bit more mature.

I know the feeling of hard acceleration from riding motorcycle, and it can be fun. But I don't even remember the last time I accelerated full power up to 100km/h or even more. And with an EV there is not even sound combined with the acceleration. 

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Manufacturers want to sell more. And more.

They don't want things which last forever.

Sure, new technology will replace old technology - in new vehicles. And that makes the old vehicles even more obsolete.

There are very few examples where devices with old technology are adapted to work with new technology.

 

Old vehicles with old carburetors still work - and are relatively easy to repair. 

I believe you are referring more to the ICEV makers.  But hey, keeps spewing the same thing over & over, even when the complete opposite has been posted many times.

 

Life expectancy of the batteries (LPF) and electric motors are designed to outlast the rest of the car.   Far long than ICEV drivetrains & exhaust systems.

Edited June 2 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who expects batteries to last 20 years?

And who expects that combustion engines fail after 3 years?

Greta? 

I do, and well over 500k kms.

 

Our Mazda 2 (2012) is on it's way out, at <200k kms, and it was well taken care of.  Daughter just got rid of it, and was happy to only get of it for 70k baht, so that's pretty sad.   Very happy with her Atto 3.

 

Repeat posting and surely you've seen it a few time, but conveniently, simply ignore  it.  Many consider 2500 cycles to be conservation.

 

Edited June 2 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

And I thought most of the members here are a little bit more mature.

I know the feeling of hard acceleration from riding motorcycle, and it can be fun. But I don't even remember the last time I accelerated full power up to 100km/h or even more. And with an EV there is not even sound combined with the acceleration. 

mature in age yes but still boy racers in the Motor forum a search produces 3.8 59 times and performance 674 times not all posts are related to acceleration but the majority are related to  acceleration

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

mature in age yes but still boy racers in the Motor forum a search produces 3.8 59 times and performance 674 times not all posts are related to acceleration but the majority are related to  acceleration

do I detect a little bit of jealousy here?

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I do, and well over 500k kms.

 

Our Mazda 2 (2012) is on it's way out, at <200k kms, and it was well taken care of.  Daughter just got rid of it, and was happy to only get of it for 70k baht, so that's pretty sad.   Very happy with her Atto 3.

 

Repeat posting and surely you've seen it a few time, but conveniently, simply ignore  it.  Many consider 2500 cycles to be conservation.

 

 

How about if you often fast charge the car?

How long is the warranty from the manufacturers? 10 years or > 500,000km? 

 

I recently saw a video where someone had a minor problem with the battery, I think he bumped against something. He asked the dealer to repair it. Result: It can't be repaired - at least that is what the manufacturer and dealer say. He has to buy a complete new, very expensive, battery.

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How about if you often fast charge the car?

How long is the warranty from the manufacturers? 10 years or > 500,000km? 

 

I recently saw a video where someone had a minor problem with the battery, I think he bumped against something. He asked the dealer to repair it. Result: It can't be repaired - at least that is what the manufacturer and dealer say. He has to buy a complete new, very expensive, battery.

How long are the warranties on ICEV ?  Tells you what ... the same.

 

A vid, from a stranger ... great info source.

 

Have a nice day ... 

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

do I detect a little bit of jealousy here?

No just stating facts which can be backup by doing a search on these forums

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, KhunLA said:

How long are the warranties on ICEV ?  Tells you what ... the same.

 

A vid, from a stranger ... great info source.

 

Have a nice day ... 

I repaired, mostly together with a friend who is car mechanic, a couple of cars.

Mostly there is some (little) part broken. It is seldom necessary to change something which is 1/2 the car's cost.

But that is exactly the problem with an EV battery. If it has to be replaced, then it will be very expensive.

And, unlike for ICE vehicles, you can't just buy a used battery. Because basically nobody is able to know how good any used battery is.

 

Maybe let's ask like this: Would you buy an EV which is maybe 8 years old? Even if the car has <100,000km on the clock? Do you trust that the battery will last 5 or 10 years more?

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, connda said:

 

 

The way things are going Renewables and Hydro have probably already overtaken Coal in the electricity generation mix in Thailand, particularly as published figures do not include domestic production (There is no permitting requirement for domestic solar here)

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I repaired, mostly together with a friend who is car mechanic, a couple of cars.

Mostly there is some (little) part broken. It is seldom necessary to change something which is 1/2 the car's cost.

But that is exactly the problem with an EV battery. If it has to be replaced, then it will be very expensive.

And, unlike for ICE vehicles, you can't just buy a used battery. Because basically nobody is able to know how good any used battery is.

 

Maybe let's ask like this: Would you buy an EV which is maybe 8 years old? Even if the car has <100,000km on the clock? Do you trust that the battery will last 5 or 10 years more?

 

We have no battery worries for 8 yrs, and what would an 8 yr car be worth ?  Not much as far as I'm concerned.   We'll only have about 150-175k kms on it by then.  As I say, expect 500k, at least.

 

I won't be around around anyway.  What if scenarios don't concern me.  I know I wouldn't want any ICEV after 8 yrs, that's for sure.  A timebomb waiting to constantly need repair.   So we're way ahead in that aspect.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I won't be around around anyway.  What if scenarios don't concern me.  I know I wouldn't want any ICEV after 8 yrs, that's for sure.  A timebomb waiting to constantly need repair.   So we're way ahead in that aspect.

My first car was older than 10 years when I bought it. It still worked fine. Some minor repairs.

And many cars also work fine when they are old.

It's good that you can afford a new EV. But if someone is young and wants to buy a cheap car, which he can possibly still use for years, then an EV would likely be a bad choice, and possibly a total loss. 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

You need to support your comments with some evidence. Nobody is interested in uninformed opinions.

 

I don’t pay to fuel my EVs as they are powered by solar.

 

V2L helps me from having an electric bill.
 

Road tax on EVs is considerably less than ICE vehicles. A diesel pickup can cost ฿5,000/yr

 

“The DLT attributed the jump to the annual tax break for newly registered complete built-up EVs, which began in May last year and will run until November 2025.

 

Under the measure, EVs weighing under 1,800 kilogrammes will be taxed 320 baht annually instead of 1,600 baht.“

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2024/03/05/tax-breaks-triple-thailands-electric-vehicle-registrations

Road tax for diesel pickup take into account many different factors 2 door or 4 door green plate vs white plate weight and cc of vehicle road taxes for 2 door green plate can start from B1350 per year

[vinny41]

In 2023, natural gas accounted for the highest total power generation capacity, followed by coal and lignite, with a significant presence of 13 natural gas production facilities, primarily in the Gulf of Thailand. From January to November 2023, the value of energy imports and exports amounted to almost 1.89 trillion Thai baht. Energy consumption that year was around two million barrels worth of commercial primary energy oil equivalent, mainly from petroleum products and natural gas. The Thai government is actively promoting renewable energy to reduce fossil fuel dependency and has seen a year-on-year increase in the usage of renewables.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Thailand#cite_note-2

[JBChiangRai]

55 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe let's ask like this: Would you buy an EV which is maybe 8 years old? Even if the car has <100,000km on the clock? Do you trust that the battery will last 5 or 10 years more?

 

 

I would want a State of Health (SoH) report on the battery and price I offered would be dependent on that.

 

If the battery was healthy, yes I would buy the car.

[sometime]

In the UK a car firm must sell 1 EV in 5 or Firms that fail to hit the quotas could be fined £15,000 per car.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66875554.amp

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I would want a State of Health (SoH) report on the battery and price I offered would be dependent on that.

 

If the battery was healthy, yes I would buy the car.

 

According to my current information, there is no such thing as an independent SoH for batteries.

The car computers or the manufacturers might have such information, but it seems that information is not available for the car owners or anybody else. I.e. it would be useful to know if the battery was often fast charged. It seems in the moment buyers can only ask the previous owner and hope to get a correct answer. 

[mikebike]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

According to my current information, there is no such thing as an independent SoH for batteries.

The car computers or the manufacturers might have such information, but it seems that information is not available for the car owners or anybody else. I.e. it would be useful to know if the battery was often fast charged. It seems in the moment buyers can only ask the previous owner and hope to get a correct answer. 

No. All EV Service in BKK will do a full SoH analysis.

[UWEB]

3 hours ago, dutch boy said:

Fox news is watched by more people than CNN, MSNBC or any other news outlet, so what is your point?

Beside that it is not correct what you are telling here, my point is Fox News is supporting a criminal like to be Leader.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/530119/tv-networks-viewers-usa/

Edited June 2 by UWEB

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

No. All EV Service in BKK will do a full SoH analysis.

How do they do that?

Do they have any detailed information about the battery? Where do they get that from?

Just something like a manufacture date and the physical condition is just a tiny part of the condition.

[connda]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

The way things are going Renewables and Hydro have probably already overtaken Coal in the electricity generation mix in Thailand

Get real.  Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand Mae Mot coal generation plant in Lampang has added capacity.  What hydro?  From the Mekong River?  Renewables?  Where?
I hear a lot of "We're gonna do this and that scheme."  Thailand?  We need a lot less talk and a lot more action.  If they are smart they'll get serious about nuclear.  Solar and wind is a waste of money and inefficient on a good day.   In the meanwhile?  EGAT keeps the lights on with coal.
 

[mikebike]

34 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How do they do that?

Do they have any detailed information about the battery? Where do they get that from?

Just something like a manufacture date and the physical condition is just a tiny part of the condition.

No. You seem to have no clue how the physics/chemistry of a battery works 🤣

Edited June 2 by mikebike

[KhunLA]

32 minutes ago, connda said:

Get real.  Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand Mae Mot coal generation plant in Lampang has added capacity.  What hydro?  From the Mekong River?  Renewables?  Where?
I hear a lot of "We're gonna do this and that scheme."  Thailand?  We need a lot less talk and a lot more action.  If they are smart they'll get serious about nuclear.  Solar and wind is a waste of money and inefficient on a good day.   In the meanwhile?  EGAT keeps the lights on with coal.

Wow ... surprised of the ignorance some show when posting.  You obviously don't get out much.

 

 

Edited June 2 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

34 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How do they do that?

Do they have any detailed information about the battery? Where do they get that from?

Just something like a manufacture date and the physical condition is just a tiny part of the condition.

The BMS (battery management system) keeps detailed figures on the performance of each cell within the pack and produces a state of health report.

 

You also get a similar figure from the range indication after a full charge, you can compare that to the figure quoted at bew ti work out % degradation 

 

25 minutes ago, connda said:

Get real.  Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand Mae Mot coal generation plant in Lampang has added capacity.  What hydro?  From the Mekong River?  Renewables?  Where?
I hear a lot of "We're gonna do this and that scheme."  Thailand?  We need a lot less talk and a lot more action.  If they are smart they'll get serious about nuclear.  Solar and wind is a waste of money and inefficient on a good day.   In the meanwhile?  EGAT keeps the lights on with coal.
 

Try a google search for Loxley Solar to see what just one company has achieved and intends to do.  There are dozens of such companies.

[In the jungle]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wow ... surprised of the ignorance some show when posting.  You obviously don't get out much.

 

 

You think because it has natural in the name it is 'green'?

 

Hilarious.

[atpeace]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I really like to see how the EV market will develop over the next decade or so.

Who would want to buy i.e. a 10 year old vehicle which needs a new battery when the battery costs (almost?) as much as a new vehicle?

 

I watch a YouTube channel where a guy restores old BMWs. Some of them are 30 years old and he restores them to a condition similar to new. Can you imagine that with any EV? No. Best case you can make it look like it is new and then park it and never touch it again.

Cost to replace the battery on Tesla Model 3 is around 700,000 baht ( only 16% of original cost of car).  Battery prices are plummeting and the new batteries last 2,000 cycles (over 500k kilometers).  Other than an accident, I could drive the car into my next life.

 

I lover my petrol truck and fortunate I don't need a new card for the next few years.  With all the data available today I still am not confident enough to pull the trigger.  Just need a smidgen more verification that an EV is by far the better choice for me.

Edited June 2 by atpeace