Should Hamas's Bloody Bet be Rewarded by the World?

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, Social Media said:

there is a grim celebration within the tunnels of Gaza. The remaining leaders of Hamas, shielded by their own civilians and Israeli hostages, appear to be reveling in the suffering provoked by these terrorist acts. These brutalities were designed to elicit a devastating military response from Israel, a response that has resulted in widespread suffering and international condemnation.

How do the Hamas leaders appear to be revelling? 

Is this just someone's opinion? 

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Im sure there are some innocent Israelis, we cant stoop to think like them and blame even the innocent children in our hatred.  No, Israeli children cant be blamed for the genocide carried out by their parents.

I know some Israelis who are against the Genocide. 

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How do the Hamas leaders appear to be revelling? 

Is this just someone's opinion? 

You need to get out of the Al Jazeera bubble, they are reveling in 5 star hotels in Qatar lapping it all up. Even the rat down one of the tunnels in Gaza is very pleased with the outcome so far, what's his name again, you know right? Yahia Sinwar

[placeholder]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I seriously doubt.

The Iran backed Hamas terrorist lovers were out "protesting" the day after October 7.

Seriously doubt away. If you believe that the Israelis despicable conduct on the West Bank after Oct 7 hasn't hurt their case, you're being willfully blind.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, transam said:

Then why do members keep using the word here...........🤔

why not look up the definition of genocide on the internet and compare that definition with what Netanyahu, the Israeli "war cabinet" and the IDF are doing in Gaza, the west bank and Lebanon.

 

I just did and came to the conclusion (without the help of the ICC, the ICJ), that Israel is committing genocide.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

why not look up the definition of genocide on the internet and compare that definition with what Netanyahu, the Israeli "war cabinet" and the IDF are doing in Gaza, the west bank and Lebanon.

 

I just did and came to the conclusion (without the help of the ICC, the ICJ), that Israel is committing genocide.

I have, your country did worse during 1939/45.........

[billd766]

18 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

1) Norway was not neutral in WWII. It was invaded by Germany, defeated and occupied. The government went into exile in Britain. It maintained an active resistance organisation, and was liberated by Britain in 1945.

 

2) Being recognised by various countries, and international agencies will be of little comfort to the leaders of Hamas when Israel catches up with them.

The same will apply to Netanyahu, his murderous war cabinet and all of the top generals of the IDF.

 

"I was just obeying orders" is not a defence against genocide, nor has it been since the Nuremburg war trials since 1947, before Israel even existed.

[billd766]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I have, your country did worse during 1939/45.........

Not true.

 

However, it is your country too.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The same will apply to Netanyahu, his murderous war cabinet and all of the top generals of the IDF.

 

"I was just obeying orders" is not a defence against genocide, nor has it been since the Nuremburg war trials since 1947, before Israel even existed.

The Germans WERE the aggressors, Hamas and Gaza ARE the aggressors, both the aggressors...

Now you tell us how many German civilians were killed by the allies to end the German axis aggression......

You will have to come back and say YOUR country committed genocide.....

 

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Not true.

 

However, it is your country too.

So we did not carpet bomb Germany............🤣

[billd766]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So we did not carpet bomb Germany............🤣

Is carpet bombing the same as genocide?

[Jeff the Chef]

20 hours ago, transam said:

So using the word now is wrong, the same as innocent until proven guilty.....

In other words, members using the word genocide are in the "Hang 'em high brigade", guilty before being judged............😏 

 

Hang em high, not in this day and age, surely we have moved on a little bit, oh wait, this extract from Wiki sounds not so historic under the present circumstances:

 

While the concept of genocide was formulated by Lemkin in the mid-20th century, the expansion of various European colonial powers, such as the British and the Spanish Empires, and the subsequent establishment of colonies on indigenous territory frequently involved acts of genocidal violence against indigenous groups in the Americas (including Brazil, Paraguay, and the United States), Australia, Africa, and Asia. According to Lemkin, colonization was in itself "intrinsically genocidal", and he saw this genocide as a two-stage process, the first being the destruction of the indigenous population's way of life. In the second stage, the newcomers impose their way of life on the indigenous group. According to David Maybury-Lewis, imperial and colonial forms of genocide are enacted in two main ways, either through the deliberate clearing of territories of their original inhabitants to make them exploitable for purposes of resource extraction or colonial settlements, or through enlisting indigenous peoples as forced laborers in colonialist or imperialist projects of resource extraction. The designation of specific events as genocidal is often controversial.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

[Stargeezr]

Who helped Hamas build all those tunnels?  I think that a lot of Palistines were involved with this tunnel building and 

therefore have blood on their hands for supporting hamas. IMO of course. Hamas leadership does not even live in any part of the

Palistine ares so i think of Hamas as a foreign terrorist group. It was Hamas on Oct 7th who killed and raped and took hostages.

It would be nice if everyone remembers this fact.

[CharlieH]

Reported Flame removed.

 

Keep it civil please and refrain from personal commentary

[transam]

On 6/5/2024 at 5:56 PM, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Because that is the accusation/charge:

 

Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime
of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel)
Palestine files an application for permission to intervene and a declaration of intervention
in the proceedings, invoking Articles 62 and 63 of the Statute of the Court

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240603-pre-02-00-en.pdf

So, innocent until proven guilty, as usual, your type can't think about that type of thing..................

[ThaiFelix]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:16 PM, coolcarer said:

Oh a real life sexual crimes and rape denier. Even when the hostages themselves disclose it. What a sad apologist. 🙁 Be happy, you have a fellow conspiracey theorist giving you a +1

Please provide a reliable source showing real evidence of "40 headless babies" and evidence of "broken pelvises" on rape victims if its so readily available.  

[coolcarer]

4 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Please provide a reliable source showing real evidence of "40 headless babies" and evidence of "broken pelvises" on rape victims if its so readily available.  

can you provide evidence that the moon is made of cheese?

 

I guess not but then you didn’t claim it. The same a I never mentioned headless babies. Plenty of evidence Of rapes and sexual abuse in dedicated topics. You need to catch up 

[transam]

Just now, ThaiFelix said:

Please provide a reliable source showing real evidence of "40 headless babies" and evidence of "broken pelvises" on rape victims if its so readily available.  

Perhaps you should contact the press who have been privy to the questions you ask. 

The video evidence was so dreadful it could not be put out.

 

If you support these murdering scum, that is your privilege, but, I suggest you do your own homework on the reality of the murdering scum instead of asking here, but, you won't, because you support the murdering scum and fear the worst before your eyes.. 

[Hanaguma]

For me, I am left wondering what is the end game for the gormless lefties who mindlessly bleat out "genocide!" and "cease fire!".  Do they want a return to the status quo ante? Return Hamas to power in Gaza, along with the continuation of the worst conditions for women and sexual minorities anywhere in the world? A land where there is no freedom, no joy, only hatred of Jews.  Sorry but that is not acceptable.

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Please provide a reliable source showing real evidence of "40 headless babies" and evidence of "broken pelvises" on rape victims if its so readily available

It's a sad state of affairs when even the POTUS lies about seeing these made up stories. 

https://www.wrmea.org/israel-palestine/biden-lied-about-seeing-photos-of-beheaded-israeli-children.html

 

Last week, a baby was decapitated but I don't see anyone discussing it, maybe because it was Palestinian. 

Baby Ahmad Al-Najar was decapitated when Israel struck the tents of displaced Palestinians in the Tal al-Sultan area of Rafah.

https://www.newarab.com/news/gaza-father-mourns-baby-son-decapitated-rafah-massacre

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

For me, I am left wondering what is the end game for the gormless lefties who mindlessly bleat out "genocide!" and "cease fire!".  Do they want a return to the status quo ante? Return Hamas to power in Gaza, along with the continuation of the worst conditions for women and sexual minorities anywhere in the world? A land where there is no freedom, no joy, only hatred of Jews.  Sorry but that is not acceptable.

Many countries are saying it is Genocide, most recently Spain. You are rapidly becoming the minority by denying it.

[transam]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Many countries are saying it is Genocide, most recently Spain. You are rapidly becoming the minority by denying it.

Don't be silly....🙄

Give us a list of countries "saying it is Genocide"....out of the World's 195 countries.. 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's a sad state of affairs when even the POTUS lies about seeing these made up stories. 

https://www.wrmea.org/israel-palestine/biden-lied-about-seeing-photos-of-beheaded-israeli-children.html

 

Last week, a baby was decapitated but I don't see anyone discussing it, maybe because it was Palestinian. 

Baby Ahmad Al-Najar was decapitated when Israel struck the tents of displaced Palestinians in the Tal al-Sultan area of Rafah.

https://www.newarab.com/news/gaza-father-mourns-baby-son-decapitated-rafah-massacre

Did you watch the very graphic video of Hamas beheading a Thai worker while he is alive? You have Thai nationality. How does that make you feel. What about all the Thais still held hostage in Gaza?

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/israel-un-hamas-thai-hostage-victim-garden-hoe-3875946

[johng]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/israel-un-hamas-thai-hostage-victim-garden-hoe-3875946

 

I see no video on that site and don't wish to view it either but assuming its true

( unlike Bidens decapitated babies tale)

 

Arguing for a ceasefire, Palestinian UN envoy Riyad Mansour said certain nations, which he did not name, were applying a clear double standard.

"How can representatives of states explain how horrible it is that 1,000 Israelis were killed, and not feel the same outrage when 1,000 Palestinians are now killed every single day?" Mansour asked the assembly. "Why not feel a sense of urgency to end their killing?"

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/israel-un-hamas-thai-hostage-victim-garden-hoe-3875946

 

I see no video on that site and don't wish to view it either but assuming its true

( unlike Bidens decapitated babies tale)

 

Arguing for a ceasefire, Palestinian UN envoy Riyad Mansour said certain nations, which he did not name, were applying a clear double standard.

"How can representatives of states explain how horrible it is that 1,000 Israelis were killed, and not feel the same outrage when 1,000 Palestinians are now killed every single day?" Mansour asked the assembly. "Why not feel a sense of urgency to end their killing?"

I've seen it, would give you the link but you said you don't want it.

[Jeff the Chef]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

For me, I am left wondering what is the end game for the gormless lefties who mindlessly bleat out "genocide!" and "cease fire!".  Do they want a return to the status quo ante? Return Hamas to power in Gaza, along with the continuation of the worst conditions for women and sexual minorities anywhere in the world? A land where there is no freedom, no joy, only hatred of Jews.  Sorry but that is not acceptable.

 

To me, you lose all credibility with the comments like "gormless lefties," hatred of Jews. The problem with Israel is Zionism not the Jews, to me 2 completely different entities.

Palestine is their Country, like it or not they have not been born in a Western/European environment, their values at ground level are different to ours, to me, we are all about material rubbish and consumerism and the me me me culture.

It could also be argued that we in the West/Northern Hemisphere have lost the plot as far as communities are concerned.

The World is getting smaller thanks to modern communications, your point about conditions for women and minorities, there way of dealing with LGBGT stuff worked fine for hundreds of years, who are we to say that is wrong just because it's become to me, fashionable in the West, but hey, women are alright but there's nowt like the real thing.

All the haters will still hate, but to me give us a bit of slack, we are not all the same.

 

[Bkk Brian]

From the experts:

 

A Zionist is someone who advocates for an independent Jewish state where Jews can live in safety. To many religious Jews, Israel is 'the promised land'. But many non-religious Jews, too, value the fact that there is a country where Jews can live in freedom and safety. Nowadays, the word Zionist is often used as a swearword. As a negative label. Many Palestinians and supporters of the Palestinian cause no longer distinguish between the words 'Jew', 'Israeli' and 'Zionist'. That is not correct. Most Jews do not live in Israel. Not every inhabitant of Israel is Jewish; there are also many non-Jews living in Israel. And not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' who want to conquer more and more Palestinian land. The vast majority of Jews believe that the State of Israel should continue to exist. But many Jews, both living in Israel and elsewhere, are in favour of a Palestinian state alongside Israel as a possible solution to the conflict. To cut a long story short: although many Jews identify with Zionism, there are still many different points of view. That is reason enough not to mix up the words 'Jew', 'Israelis' and 'Zionists'. 

https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/

 

 

[johng]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I've seen it, would give you the link but you said you don't want it.

I have seen a video years ago that is impossible to forget and don't really want to see more.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna6190477

A videotape of the beheading of British hostage Kenneth Bigley was posted Sunday on the Internet showing the civil engineer making one last plea for help from his government moments before he was killed.

The tape showed Bigley, dressed in an orange prison-style jump suit, seated in front of seven armed, hooded men. Behind them was the banner of Tawhid and Jihad, lead by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Bigley made a brief appeal, saying: "I am a simple man who wants to live a simple life." He then addressed British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

"Here I am again, Mr. Blair," Bigley said, "very, very close to the end of my life. You do not appear to have done anything at all to help me."

One of the hooded men then spoke, saying the kidnappers extended the deadline for Bigley's death to allow time for coalition authorities to meet their demand to release women prisoners.

"Because Britain is not serious in releasing our sisters, there is nothing further for this malicious Briton than the sword," he said.

Suddenly the speaker drew a knife from his belt, while three of the others grabbed Bigley. The men shoved Bigley to the floor and cut of his head, which the killer then lifted for viewers to see.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, johng said:

I have seen a video years ago that is impossible to forget and don't really want to see more.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna6190477

A videotape of the beheading of British hostage Kenneth Bigley was posted Sunday on the Internet showing the civil engineer making one last plea for help from his government moments before he was killed.

The tape showed Bigley, dressed in an orange prison-style jump suit, seated in front of seven armed, hooded men. Behind them was the banner of Tawhid and Jihad, lead by Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Bigley made a brief appeal, saying: "I am a simple man who wants to live a simple life." He then addressed British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

"Here I am again, Mr. Blair," Bigley said, "very, very close to the end of my life. You do not appear to have done anything at all to help me."

One of the hooded men then spoke, saying the kidnappers extended the deadline for Bigley's death to allow time for coalition authorities to meet their demand to release women prisoners.

"Because Britain is not serious in releasing our sisters, there is nothing further for this malicious Briton than the sword," he said.

Suddenly the speaker drew a knife from his belt, while three of the others grabbed Bigley. The men shoved Bigley to the floor and cut of his head, which the killer then lifted for viewers to see.

Good, I do not suggest watching it, its just that it seemed you were calling into question its authenticity. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

From the experts:

 

A Zionist is someone who advocates for an independent Jewish state where Jews can live in safety. To many religious Jews, Israel is 'the promised land'. But many non-religious Jews, too, value the fact that there is a country where Jews can live in freedom and safety. Nowadays, the word Zionist is often used as a swearword. As a negative label. Many Palestinians and supporters of the Palestinian cause no longer distinguish between the words 'Jew', 'Israeli' and 'Zionist'. That is not correct. Most Jews do not live in Israel. Not every inhabitant of Israel is Jewish; there are also many non-Jews living in Israel. And not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' who want to conquer more and more Palestinian land. The vast majority of Jews believe that the State of Israel should continue to exist. But many Jews, both living in Israel and elsewhere, are in favour of a Palestinian state alongside Israel as a possible solution to the conflict. To cut a long story short: although many Jews identify with Zionism, there are still many different points of view. That is reason enough not to mix up the words 'Jew', 'Israelis' and 'Zionists'. 

https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/

 

 

There are also very good reasons to not demonize Zionists or Zionism. That is being done more than usual lately. It's not really surprising. The very word Jew which technically is neutral is used by many as a slur.