Covid vaccines may have helped fuel rise in excess deaths [disputed]

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting that the UK Daily Mail had a report at the end of 2023 on large numbers of excess deaths in the UK during the first half 2023 (covering a more recent period than the OP study here) especially among the middle aged... and put it down to unhealthy lifestyles and woes with the NHS --  and specifically NOT COVID vaccines.

 

Revealed: Hundreds more middle-aged adults are dying every month since Covid ended

14 December 2023

 

Hundreds more middle-aged Brits are dying every month than expected, with experts blaming unhealthy lifestyles and the NHS crisis for the surge in excess deaths. 

 

An extra 28,000 deaths, or more than 1,000 a week, were logged across the UK in the first six months of the year, according to fresh analysis of official figures.

...

Anti-vaxxers have claimed excess deaths are down to Covid jabs but scientists insist that the injections, which have saved tens of millions of lives globally, are not to blame.

 

Writing in The Times, Professor Yvonne Doyle, former medical director of the now-defunct Public Health England (PHE), blamed 'an underlying pandemic of ill health'.

 

(more)

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12862953/Hundreds-middle-aged-adults-dying-month-Covid-ended.html

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The prevalance of flat-out misinformation about COVID vaccines is really sad....

 

More evidence: even the BMJ's own article on the OP cited study here is NOT blaming COVID vaccines -- unlike the report in The Telegraph.

High excess death rates in the West for 3 years running since start of pandemic

Excess death rates have remained high in the West for three years running since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, finds a data analysis of 47 countries published in the open access journal BMJ Public Health.

 

This is despite the implementation of various containment measures and the availability of  COVID-19 vaccines, giving rise to “serious cause for concern,” say the researchers who call on governments and policymakers to thoroughly investigate the underlying causes.

...

It’s not clear how many of these excess deaths reflect the impact of COVID-19 infection, or the indirect effects of containment measures and vaccination programmes, say the researchers.

 

(more)

 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/high-excess-death-rates-in-the-west-for-3-years-running-since-start-of-pandemic/

 

But obviously The Telegraph knows, because they're blaming the vaccines -- notwithstanding the cited study not doing so.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another non-partisan report on the OP cited study that -- unlike The Telegraph -- does NOT blame COVID vaccines as the cause of pandemic excess deaths.

Excess death rates due to pandemic persisted in Western countries

New COVID-19 excess death rate estimates from 47 countries show that rates remained high for 3 consecutive pandemic years.

 

"Excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of COVID-19 containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. This is unprecedented and raises serious concerns," the authors wrote. 

 

The study, published yesterday in BMJ Public Health, assessed people who died from any cause above and beyond what would normally be expected from January 2020 to December 2022 in 47 countries in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand. Death rates were compared to historical death data in each country from 2015 until 2019, and matched by both week and month. 

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/excess-death-rates-due-pandemic-persisted-western-countries

 

 

[stats]

A post linking to a non-credible "questionable source" YouTube video has been removed.

 

Per the forum's rules:

 

"in factual areas such as but not limited to news, current affairs and health topics, social media cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or a government agency, and must include a link to the original source."

 

[johng]

https://bmjpublichealth.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000282

 

full PDF  e000282.full.pdf

 

A recent analysis of seroprevalence studies in this prevaccination era illustrates that the Infection Fatality Rate estimates in non-elderly populations were even lower than prior calculations suggested At a global level,

the prevaccination Infection Fatality Rate was 0.03% for people aged <60 years

and 0.07% for people aged <70 years

For children aged 0–19 years, the Infection Fatality Rate was set at 0.0003%

This implies that children are rarely harmed by the COVID-19 virus.

 

and

 

During 2021, when not only containment measures but also COVID-19 vaccines were used to tackle virus spread and infection, the highest number of excess deaths was recorded: 1 256 942 excess deaths (P-score 13.8%).26 37 Scientific consensus regarding the effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical interventions in reducing viral transmission is currently lacking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As previously posted above, the OP-cited study's references to Infection Fatality Rate data (footnote 38) are cited to research by the same Stanford University professor (John Ioannidis) who infamously predicted in 2020 that the U.S. would only have 10,000 COVID deaths, not the 1.2 million that ultimately occurred.

 

 

 

Ioannidis in 2020:

 

 

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths [emphasis added]. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.”

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

He missed the boat by a long ways on that one.

 

He's a very famous professor and researcher who also has a reputation as being a COVID minimizer/denier:

 

"Ioannidis was a prominent opponent of lockdowns during the COVID-19 pandemic, and he has been accused of promoting conspiracy theories concerning COVID-19 policies and public health and safety measures.^[5][6][7][8]

 

AND

 

"Ioannidis widely promoted a study of which he had been co-author, "COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California", released as a preprint on April 17, 2020. It asserted that Santa Clara County's number of infections was between 50 and 85 times higher than the official count, putting the virus's fatality rate as low as 0.1% to 0.2%.^{[n 1][135][131]} Ioannidis concluded from the study that the coronavirus is "not the apocalyptic problem we thought".^[136] The message found favor with right-wing media outlets, but the paper drew criticism from a number of epidemiologists who said its testing was inaccurate and its methods were sloppy.^{[137][138][139]"}

 

^{And there's a lot more of the same relating to COVID issues in the longer writeup below.}

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ioannidis

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I must say, the authors of the OP-cited study appear to have been quite selective in what kinds of sources they decided to cite and use (the discredited Fraiman and the disputed Ioannidis, as examples), and yet somehow chose to entirely ignore the multitudes of non-disputed research that has found no risk of excess deaths from COVID vaccines, many of which I've posted and cited earlier in this thread.

 

It's almost as if, they set out with some kind of predetermined agenda to promote...

 

Edited June 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[transam]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I must say, the authors of the OP-cited study appear to have been quite selective in what kinds of sources they decided to cite and use (the discredited Fraiman and the disputed Ioannidis, as examples), and yet chose to entirely ignore the multitudes of non-disputed research that has found no risk of excess deaths from COVID vaccines, many of which I've posted and cited earlier in this thread.

 

It's almost as if, they set out with some kind of predetermined agenda to promote...

 

It's the anti-vax, mask, Covid team at work, all odd-ball's.....

 

I wonder which one is Bluesphinx.........🤗

[BigBruv]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

non-disputed research that has found no risk of excess deaths from COVID vaccines, many of which I've posted and cited earlier in this thread.

 

 

 

'Non-disputed'? / 'No risk'?   👀

 

Maybe you should tell her widowed husband and daughter about your beloved 'research' & 'studies'

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds

 

 

Edited June 6 by BigBruv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You know full-well what "excess deaths" are -- deaths in the population at large above and beyond those that would have been expected in the absence of the COVID pandemic.

 

Excess deaths are this below, the majority of them being people who actually died from COVID itself, with vaccine-related deaths vanishingly small in comparison.

 

 

Source:

 

or this:

 

The true toll

Covid’s confirmed death toll — more than seven million people worldwide — is horrific on its own, and the true toll is much worse. The Economist magazine keeps a running estimate of excess deaths, defined as the number of deaths above what was expected from pre-Covid trends. The global total is approaching 30 million.

 

This number includes both confirmed Covid deaths and undiagnosed ones, which have been common in poorer countries. It includes deaths caused by pandemic disruptions, such as missed doctor appointments that might have prevented other diseases. The isolation of the pandemic also caused a surge of social ills in the U.S., including increases in deaths from alcohol, drugs, vehicle crashes and murders."

 

https://archive.ph/niVyc#selection-4443.0-4463.400

 

 

And yes, numerous studies, all of them undisputed AFAIK (not involving dodgy / discredited or disputed research or authors like some cited in the OP study) have found that COVID vaccines do not create excess deaths in the population at large.

 

COVID-19 Vaccines

"Vaccines are the most effective way to prevent infectious diseases and they save millions of lives worldwide. Like all medicines, vaccines can cause side effects. Most of these are mild and short-term, and not everyone gets them."

 

https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

 

 

And research such as this:

A safety study evaluating non-COVID-19 mortality risk following COVID-19 vaccination

16 January 2023

 

• In this study of more than 6 million recipients of COVID-19 vaccines and their unvaccinated comparators, we found that recipients of BNT162b2, mRNA-1273, and Ad26.COV2.S vaccines had lower non-COVID-19 mortality risk than their comparator groups."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22015614?via%3Dihub

 

Edited June 7 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Danderman123]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:24 PM, AreYouGerman said:

 

Well, I didn't take the clot shot and think that covid is the flu and everything was a complete hoax. But the excess death rate is a hoax. It was used by the covid hoaxers in the fake pandemic as well. Excess death has something to do with birth rates. Yeah, boomers are called boomers... exactly.

You really think that every country that reports excess mortality data is in on a giant conspiracy?

[Danderman123]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:01 PM, Red Phoenix said:

3 million excess deaths in Western countries since 2020 with the trend continuing, ultimately cannot be brushed under the table.  So it's only natural that some of the MSM are starting to report it and are hesitantly mentioning now that the covid-measures and the '100% safe and effective' jabs might be a significant factor contributing to that disastrous trend.

The article talks about millions who died during the epidemic. Any chance they died from Covid?

[BigBruv]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You really think that every country that reports excess mortality data is in on a giant conspiracy?

 

 

Giant conspiracy like when Doctors universally prescribed Thalidomide to pregnant mothers or when everyone sprayed their kids with DDT???

 

Do you mean those types of 'conspiracies'? 

 

No doubt muh "studies, experts and idiots (the majority) parroted DDT being 'safe and effective' at the time but now we know better right?

 

 

Edited June 7 by stats
unsourced image and related comments removed

[BigBruv]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The article talks about millions who died during the epidemic. Any chance they died from Covid?

 

Or the flu?

 

Unlikely / Low probability either way - Average 'covid death' in the UK was much the same as life expectancy.

 

Choice for doctors:

Spend your time trying to work out a write up a genuine cause of death or just call every death a 'covid death' and take the rest of the day off?

 

Really tough choice!

 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

Edited June 7 by BigBruv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

37 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

Unlikely / Low probability either way - Average 'covid death' in the UK was much the same as life expectancy.

 

The data you're citing is correct, but the impression you're implying is misleading, as specific people who manage to survive into their older ages statistically live LONGER than the average life expectancy for someone at birth...

 

Meaning, people who have died from COVID even at older ages, overall, would have lived for many more years had COVID not cut short their lives.

 

But it is a familiar and typical anti-vaxer attempt at misleading with the false "they would have died anyway" argument.

 

Average Covid-19 victim dies years before they otherwise would

What was claimed

The average age of Covid-19 deaths is higher than the average life expectancy, which means that people who get Covid live longer.

Our verdict

This isn’t how life expectancy works. Life expectancy is an average, pulled down by people who die young. As you age, your life expectancy increases. People dying from Covid-19 lose about a decade of life on average.

...

"Life expectancy is an average, which means it is pulled down by people who die young. It also means that life expectancy increases as you age. "

 

https://fullfact.org/news/boris-johnson-whatsapp-covid-life-expectancy-cummings/

 

 

[BigBruv]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The data you're citing is correct, but the impression you're implying is misleading, as specific people who manage to survive into their older ages statistically live LONGER than the average life expectancy for someone at birth...

 

Meaning, people who have died from COVID even at older ages, overall, would have lived for many more years had COVID not cut short their lives.

 

But it is a familiar and typical anti-vaxer attempt at misleading with the false "they would have died anyway" argument.

 

Average Covid-19 victim dies years before they otherwise would

What was claimed

The average age of Covid-19 deaths is higher than the average life expectancy, which means that people who get Covid live longer.

Our verdict

This isn’t how life expectancy works. Life expectancy is an average, pulled down by people who die young. As you age, your life expectancy increases. People dying from Covid-19 lose about a decade of life on average.

...

"Life expectancy is an average, which means it is pulled down by people who die young. It also means that life expectancy increases as you age. "

 

https://fullfact.org/news/boris-johnson-whatsapp-covid-life-expectancy-cummings/

 

 

 

fact is most people who allegedly dies of covid were ANCIENT:

 

Median age for a woman who 'dIeD oV cOFid' was 85!!!!!

Eighty Bleedin Five!!!!

 

Look at the numbers::::

 

 

 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

 

 

Edited June 7 by stats
trolling comment removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And on average, still had many more years to live had not COVID cut their lives short:

 

"The same figures reveal that the average number of life years lost per U.S. coronavirus death in 2020 was 14 years."

...

In fact, life expectancy increases with age. While babies born in the U.S. today can expect to live to be 79, Americans who are 65 today can expect to live to 85, according to the United Nations World Population Prospects. Current 80-year-olds, in turn, can expect to live to an average age of 90 [emphasis added].

 

The pandemic, in other words, has killed many Americans who otherwise might have expected to live for years or even decades longer. A 65-year-old who dies from COVID-19 might ordinarily have expected to live until 85 – a difference of two decades, or roughly a quarter of the average American’s total expected life span at birth."

 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/06/16/americans-lost-more-years-of-life-to-covid-19-in-2020-than-to-all-accidents-combined-in-a-typical-year/

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

12 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Or the flu?

 

Unlikely / Low probability either way - Average 'covid death' in the UK was much the same as life expectancy.

 

Choice for doctors:

Spend your time trying to work out a write up a genuine cause of death or just call every death a 'covid death' and take the rest of the day off?

 

The point of excess mortality is the additional deaths were not cited as COVID deaths by doctors.

 

As for the flu, could you explain why millions died of the "flu" precisely during the COVID epidemic?

[stats]

Posts with  an unsourced / no weblink graphic and commenting on moderation have been removed, along with an ensuing reply.

 

"In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]