Putin Promises 'Immediate' Peace if Ukraine Drops NATO Bid and Cedes Occupied Territories

[beautifulthailand99]

On 6/15/2024 at 7:29 AM, Tropicalevo said:

In 1938, Hitler promised peace, if the UK and France convinced Czechoslovakia to cede territory to Germany and the UK/France did not sign a pact with Russia.

In 2024 Putin promised 'peace' if Ukraine ceded territory to Russia and did not sign a pact with NATO.

 

Sound familiar?

What Hitler was trying to get back was lands that had been ceded in the Treaty of Locarno in 1925 - these were lands that Imperial Germany had lost to the other imperial European powers by the fact of losing a pointless and bloody war. Negotiations at gunpoint are not negotiations in good faith. It was the Minsk of it's time and to the victor the spoils. The Munich Agreement for all it's faults bought time for the allies to rearm and prepare for war something that is forgotten by many today.

 

Sound familair ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locarno_Treaties

Edited June 16 by beautifulthailand99

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, 300sd said:

No we wouldn't agree to those terms but perhaps it could be a start toward peace talks! To me the West doesn't seem that interested in peace.

The west ( ie the 1% ) are probably minting it from taxpayer paid for weapons going to Ukraine. Why would they want to stop it? Just as long as American boys don't get killed in it, so it becomes a political problem.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The Munich Agreement for all it's faults bought time for the allies to rearm and prepare for war something that is forgotten by many today.

 

Sound familair ?

I'm well aware of that. Britain had run it's military down during the 30s to the point it wasn't capable of defeating Germany. If not for Churchill it would probably have been easily defeated by Germany after war was declared, and it was a miracle that the army in France wasn't captured by Germany.

Sound familiar?

 

Europe and many western countries have run down their militaries to almost insignificance since the cold war ended.

NZ can't even find an air force plane that won't break down to take the PM to overseas functions.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Did Russia play a part too?

After Germany invaded the Soviet Union Russia became an ally of Britain.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, NativeBob said:

because (for some reason beyond my understanding) they are "unterm**sch" and "just not same-same" to glorious nations of Europe and furthermore USA. It was obvious since USSR broke up.

Simple reason: our lords and masters need an "enemy" to be able to justify the military industrial complex ( and it's massive profits ). Peace isn't as profitable.

If the evil commies didn't exist they would have had to invent one, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

They are quasi NATO already, another fight he's lost

As long as Ukraine isn't in NATO with treaty obligations, Putin is winning.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Same megalomaniacal dictator traits though.

Time does not change that.

Perhaps so, but Hitler didn't have the means to inflict nuclear winter on the planet.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

If you are already doing this then please ignore. But if you're not and you are blowharding for more war then could I suggest putting your money where your mouths and keyboards are.

 

https://www.usubc.org/site/recent-news/war-bonds--invest-to-support-ukraine

 

 

I bet not a one of them is doing so, and for sure none will join Ukraine's military. It's so much safer behind their keyboards advocating for other people to do the dying.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, stoner said:

 

and blackrock could not be happpier. 

The greater the destruction now the greater the profits will be later. Bomb on!

War is just sooooooo profitable.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Pres Ze went to CHF and got some more promises of weapons. 

2 questions:

since UA is bankrupt [already] how they will pay for quadrupled arms?

since May 20 (something) his presidency expired that makes him just a private citizen. a tourist, how do they deal with him? unshaved boy in cargo pants and T-shirt? nothing he signs is valid AFAIK

If you pay taxes and live in one of the Let's support Ukraine western countries, YOU are paying .

Notice that not many ( or any ) of the rest of the world's countries are paying large for bullets in Ukraine. Could it be for a good reason?

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Woof999 said:

 

Of course there is. Putin had to do it when he stole the land. Everything on the Crimean peninsular was fully integrated into Ukraine and had been for at least half a century. Putin undid it all. It can be undone again.

getting back to reality...........................

[stoner]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The greater the destruction now the greater the profits will be later. Bomb on!

War is just sooooooo profitable.

 

blackrock has one of the greatest deals ever in regards to ukraine. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There's a lot of that going on here.

All coming from you yes.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Actually, I would say that you and that Red commie fixated poster are in the top two spots. In fact, the top 5 spots are all monopolised by one side… 🤪

What you say has little bearing on reality  unless you want to quote me on all those posts?

[fondue zoo]

Daggers against his back, Terminator approaching from the front.

 

 

[ElwoodP]

Bickerering and off topic posts removed.

[jas007]

18 hours ago, Dcheech said:

 

Cuba has been communist since 1960, with Russian support & military equipment. Yet you think the United States should have invaded? Fascinating and very enlightening to understand how you look at the world. Whilst invasion is popular amongst those with a communist authoritarian oligarchy mindset, glad the US for all its faults, did not invade Cuba.  

Were you asleep during the Cuban missile crisis? Russia removed its missiles from Cuba.  Whatever support Cuba has received since that time has been less signifiant.  And in case you haven’t been paying attention, Cuba is now in big trouble, financially. They aren’t doing too well.

[jas007]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So the Kremlin propaganda narrative goes. 

It’s hardly propaganda.  The deal was all but agreed to by Ukraine before the US and The UK nixed it.  Why have peace when the money laundering can continue? Why have peace when you can continue with the delusional Neocon fantasy that the unipolar world still exists? What does it matter if a half a million Ukrainian kids are slaughtered? No one really cares about them. It’s all about prolonging the war at any cost.

[Dcheech]

8 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Were you asleep during the Cuban missile crisis? Russia removed its missiles from Cuba.  Whatever support Cuba has received since that time has been less signifiant.  And in case you haven’t been paying attention, Cuba is now in big trouble, financially. They aren’t doing too well.

 

Just discover that did you     ...... However Did the USA invade?  And that was what you were claiming they 'would have done' Better review the Cuba missile crisis & Bay of Pigs for that matter,   if trying to use it justify Russia's invasion of the Ukraine. Ignorance or feigned ignorance, is no excuse. 

Aloha

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Were you asleep during the Cuban missile crisis? Russia removed its missiles from Cuba.  Whatever support Cuba has received since that time has been less signifiant.  And in case you haven’t been paying attention, Cuba is now in big trouble, financially. They aren’t doing too well.

But but but, the US did not invade Cuba. Perhaps you missed that.

 

They may be financially embarrassed but better than living under a US puppet dictator and being run by the US mafia.

[jas007]

Why would the U.S. invade?  Over the years, they imposed sanctions, in part to appease the Cubans in Miami, and as everyone knows, it’s difficult to win a presidential election without Florida.  
 

During the Cuban missile crisis the military was in favor of a strong military response. Kennedy decided otherwise, opting for a naval blockade. A deal was made to end the crisis. Russia would pull its missiles from Cuba, and the U.S. was supposed to remove nukes from Turkey.  I think the nukes are still in Turkey, though.  Maybe they were never removed. It worked out ok, in any event.

Of course, Cuba has relied heavily on the tourist Industry over the years, even though U.S. tourists were prohibited from visiting. Russia hasn’t been the primary source of support.

[transam]

21 minutes ago, jas007 said:

It’s hardly propaganda.  The deal was all but agreed to by Ukraine before the US and The UK nixed it.  Why have peace when the money laundering can continue? Why have peace when you can continue with the delusional Neocon fantasy that the unipolar world still exists? What does it matter if a half a million Ukrainian kids are slaughtered? No one really cares about them. It’s all about prolonging the war at any cost.

Don't be silly, it's about a sovereign nation being free to do what it wants, not what you or Putin wants...........🙄

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

getting back to reality...........................

When you actually do let me know.

[jas007]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

But but but, the US did not invade Cuba. Perhaps you missed that.

 

They may be financially embarrassed but better than living under a US puppet dictator and being run by the US mafia.

Just out of curiosity, when did I say the U.S. “invaded” Cuba?  And I don’t consider the Bay of Pigs fiasco to be an “invasion.”  The real military could have done better than that.
 

At the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the military was in favor of a strong military response. Massive bombing and all the rest.  Kennedy opted for a naval blockade. Still an act of war, but less drastic.  A deal was then made, ending the crisis.

 

In any event, Neocons have now infested both the U.S. State Department and the U.S. foreign policy establishment, and there are no adults in the room, so to speak.  The people running America are delusional beyond all belief. They seem to think sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine will somehow turn the tide of a war that cannot possibly be won by Ukraine or NATO.  If they’re that delusional, they wouldn’t think twice about invading Mexico or Cuba to extinguish a hostile military presence. Remember, there are no adults in the room.  The people in charge believe in the Neocon fantasy. Biden is no more than a puppet at this point, and there’s no telling who is calling the shots.

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Simple reason: our lords and masters need an "enemy" to be able to justify the military industrial complex ( and it's massive profits ). Peace isn't as profitable.

If the evil commies didn't exist they would have had to invent one, IMO.

Contrary to your opinion which is devoid of facts 'defense contracting 'isn’t a lucrative business'. 

 'Traditional defense contractors are often contractually limited in the amount of profit they can make on government contracts, and defense firms tend to have operating margins of about 11 to 13 percent (significantly lower than the commercial margins of leading tech firms like Google at 27 percent, Microsoft at 44 percent, or Apple at 34 percent, per latest Securities and Exchange Commission filings)'.

Why Increasing the Value of Defense Primes Is Good for the Country 
 

Edited June 17 by LosLobo

[rabas]

34 minutes ago, jas007 said:

At the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the military was in favor of a strong military response. Massive bombing and all the rest.  Kennedy opted for a naval blockade. Still an act of war, but less drastic.  A deal was then made, ending the crisis.

 

Well, no. Kennedy declared a naval quarantine not a  blockade, which was not an act of war.  He only blocked offensive nukes entering Cuba. (vaccine?)

 

"On October 22, he ordered a naval “quarantine” of Cuba. The use of “quarantine” legally distinguished this action from a blockade, which assumed a state of war existed; the use of “quarantine” instead of “blockade” also enabled the United States to receive the support of the Organization of American States."  [US Office of the Historian] 

 

Edited June 17 by rabas

[rabas]

35 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The people running America are delusional beyond all belief. They seem to think sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine will somehow turn the tide of a war that cannot possibly be won by Ukraine or NATO.  If they’re that delusional, they wouldn’t think twice about invading Mexico or Cuba to extinguish a hostile military presence. Remember, there are no adults in the room.  The people in charge believe in the Neocon fantasy. Biden is no more than a puppet at this point, and there’s no telling who is calling the shots.

 

Off their rocker. Imagine that a billion people with a $51 trillion GDP and vastly superior advanced technology could defeat Putin's corrupt Russia with it's $2T GDP and no exchangeable currency.  Wait, that makes sense!

 

The only way Putin can't lose is if the West believes the messengers of Russian propaganda saying you can't win.  

[jas007]

$51 trillion dollars won’t put boots on the ground. The U.S. has a big navy and advanced aircraft, but does not have the necessary equipment in place to materially change the course of the war at this point. Not the manpower, not the equipment. Nor does the rest of NATO.  Currently, the big bad Navy can’t even stop the Houthi in Yemen, and Ukraine doesn’t have many modern  aircraft and won’t have them anytime soon in close proximity to the battles. Aircraft have to be refueled . Aircraft have to be maintained. Tanks must be refueled. Tanks must be maintained. All of that requires a substantial military presence in close proximity to the front lines. It’s just not available and won’t be anytime soon. Place any of that stuff where it needs to be and it’s a legitimate target for Russia. And if this war is escalated, what happens next is anyone’s guess, but the outcome could be tragic. The West isn’t as powerful as you seem to think it is. Money, yes. Military might, not so much, unless nukes enter the equation. Too many people are simply delusional.  That’s the problem.  
 

As for “vastly superior advanced technology”?  That’s just propaganda. For all practical purposes, Russia has all the same technology the West has. That wasn’t the case in the 90s, perhaps, but today, it’s a different world. One could argue that Russia is better equipped for purposes of a ground war in Eastern Europe. The U.S. combat forces have not unlike what was used to fight WW II. Even today, much of the equipment is from the 1990s. Outdated.
 

As for no “exchangeable currency”?  You mean other than within BRICS?  Surely you must know that there are customers for Russia”s oil, gas, and other resources. They aren’t giving that stuff away.  All the US sanctions have done is weaken the U.S. dollar.  Weaken the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.  What do you think BRICS is all about?  Much of the world is fed up with the continued devaluation of the dollar. A devaluation caused, in part, to fund wars to drop bombs on the very people who put their faith in the stability of the dollar.  They buy US bonds, and  how are they rewarded? By the theft of their money. Loaning money to the U.S. at negative interest rates is probably not the best idea. 

 

 

 

[rabas]

3 hours ago, jas007 said:

It’s hardly propaganda.  The deal was all but agreed to by Ukraine before the US and The UK nixed it.  Why have peace when the money laundering can continue? Why have peace when you can continue with the delusional Neocon fantasy that the unipolar world still exists? What does it matter if a half a million Ukrainian kids are slaughtered? No one really cares about them. It’s all about prolonging the war at any cost.

If it's from Russia, it's state propaganda. The rest they toss from windows. 

 

As to the propaganda that the West nixed it to kill more Ukrainians.  There were many rounds of negations that eventually failed for several factors. What the head Ukrainian negotiator really said [Wiki] :

 

"Ukrainian lead negotiator Davyd Arakhamia stated in an interview on 24 November 2023 that in March 2022 the Russian delegation had promised Ukraine peace for refusing to join NATO, but that Russia had not given any security guarantees and the Ukrainian delegation did not trust Russia to uphold such an agreement.^[77][79][80] "

 

The lack of security guarantees from someone like Putin is more than sufficient for the US, UK, and most peoples' grandmothers to say don't sign. 

 

Edited June 17 by rabas

[beautifulthailand99]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps so, but Hitler didn't have the means to inflict nuclear winter on the planet.

This is the biggie - we are playing poker against a player that has a suitcase of money next to his chair who if we rasie the stakes too high he bring's it out and he says bust. Or we call his bluff. Oh but the US dod drop the A-bomb on 2 cities. So we know who would.

 

My brother's daughter went out with a British nuclear submariner for a while and I had a good chat with him. He said it wasn't the Russians they were wortied about it was always the Americans. They may just do it. Because ''freedom"'.