New COVID Sub-variant KP.2 on the Rise in Thailand

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Many who didn't get the jab got covid. Many who got the jab still got covid. But it's a proven fact that getting the jab helped your chances to survive and not get long covid. Bizarre people still argue this.

 

I'd agree that the vaccine helped the vulnerable, but for the rest of us.....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, sungod said:

One possibility is that people in the UK are still taking vaccines, whilst in Thailand with no new vaccines available we are simply relying on our immune systems.

 

Or perhaps that Thailand, like many non-first world countries, doesn't do a very complete job of tracking, identifying and reporting the actual causes of death every time someone dies here... Instead, it's just off to the temple to be cremated PDQ.

 

From Our World in Data on COVID deaths:

 

"The reported number of deaths might not count all deaths that occurred. This is the case for two reasons:

• First, not all countries have the infrastructure and capacity to register and report all deaths. In richer countries with high-quality mortality reporting systems, nearly 100% of deaths are registered. But in many low- and middle-income countries, undercounting of mortality is a serious issue. The UN estimates that, in “normal” times, only two-thirds of countries register at least 90% of all deaths that occur, and some countries register less than 50% — or even under 10% — of deaths. During the pandemic the actual coverage might be even lower.¹¹

 

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid#excess-mortality-during-covid-19-background

 

 

Edited June 21 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Roo Island]

7 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Where's the negative/narrative response to my previous post which was this????

An interesting court case against Pfizer in Kansas:

 

PETITION COMES NOW the Plaintiff, State of Kansas, ex rel. Kris W. Kobach, Attorney General, by and through Assistant Attorney General Kaley Schrader, and for its cause of action against Defendant, alleges and states as follows:

NATURE OF THE ACTION

1. Pfizer misled the public that it had a “safe and effective” COVID-19 vaccine.

2. Pfizer said its COVID-19 vaccine was safe even though it knew its COVID-19 vaccine was connected to serious adverse events, including myocarditis and pericarditis, failed pregnancies, and deaths. Pfizer concealed this critical safety information from the public. 

3. Pfizer said its COVID-19 vaccine was effective even though it knew its COVID19 vaccine waned over time and did not protect against COVID-19 variants. Pfizer concealed this critical effectiveness information from the public.

4. Pfizer said its COVID-19 vaccine would prevent transmission of COVID-19 even though it knew it never studied the effect of its vaccine on transmission of COVID-19.

5. To keep the public from learning the truth, Pfizer worked to censor speech on social media that questioned Pfizer’s claims about its COVID-19 vaccine.

 

It's a very long list of complaints against Pfizer and the outcome will be very interesting to see.

https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egvboakldpq/2024-06-15-pfizer-complaint-(002).pdf

Figures. Coming from a state like Kansas. Trump country. Not so smart. Totally politically motivated.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Tell that to the families of the more than 7 million who died. Many covid deaths weren't recognized as covid deaths.

I feel sorry for the people who died of cancer , heart disease etc because they couldn't get near a hospital.

[Roo Island]

7 minutes ago, sungod said:

 I haven't been really sick either, or nothing I'd worry about. Haven't worn a mask (other than forced to in the early days) or had any more jabs other than the original 2 which  in hindsight I wish I'd never taken. I really enjoy life not wearing a mask but getting close to people.

 

I just concentrate on my immune system, healthy diet and good exercise.

That's a fantastic thing to do. But not everyone is healthy like you. Thus the yearly flu shots for the elderly

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Roo Island said:

Many who didn't get the jab got covid. Many who got the jab still got covid. But it's a proven fact that getting the jab helped your chances to survive and not get long covid. Bizarre people still argue this.

Proven fact by whom? How does anyone know that a healthy person's chances of not dying was increased by the jab? I guess people who can think critically and not blindly believe everything they are told may well ask this question. Answers to this and many other questions by those deemed to be conspiracy theorists are starting to come out. 

[Roo Island]

Just now, sungod said:

I feel sorry for the people who died of cancer , heart disease etc because they couldn't get near a hospital.

Totally different. Easy to get the jab to help prevent covid. Such a jab doesn't exist for cancer or heart disease. Bizarre

[Roo Island]

Just now, dinsdale said:

Proven fact by whom? How does anyone know that a healthy person's chances of not dying was increased by the jab? I guess people who can think critically and not blindly believe everything they are told may well ask this question. Answers to this and many other questions by those deemed to be conspiracy theorists are starting to come out. 

It's a well proven fact if you follow the science. Sadly, many don't.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Or perhaps that Thailand, like many non-first world countries, doesn't do a very complete job of tracking, identifying and reporting the actual causes of death every time someone dies here... Instead, it's just off to the temple to be cremated PDQ.

 

 

Or maybe many first world countries over report, IE dying with and not because. Guess we will never know.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

That's a fantastic thing to do. But not everyone is healthy like you. Thus the yearly flu shots for the elderly

 

And I dont dispute that at all, maybe I'll need them one day.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, sungod said:

I feel sorry for the people who died of cancer , heart disease etc because they couldn't get near a hospital.

 

And part of the reason people didn't get checked and/or treated for cancer, heart disease and other conditions during the COVID pandemic was because hospitals were being overrun with lots of contagious and sick COVID patients -- many of whom chose not to get vaccinations that would have reduced their chances of COVID illness and kept many of them out of the hospitals.

 

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Figures. Coming from a state like Kansas. Trump country. Not so smart. Totally politically motivated.

Maybe it's also motivated by science. Science not paid for by big pharma.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Totally different. Easy to get the jab to help prevent covid. Such a jab doesn't exist for cancer or heart disease. Bizarre

 

Whys that different, appointments were cancelled because of Covid. How many missed early diagnosis of conditions that could have been treated but ended up going the other way.,  think you are the one who is bizarre.

[Roo Island]

4 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

Or maybe many first world countries over report, IE dying with and not because. Guess we will never know.

We do know. Deaths in first world countries are analyzed and the strains recorded. Not so much in Africa, etc

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And part of the reason people didn't get checked and/or treated for cancer, heart disease and other conditions during the COVID pandemic was because hospitals were being overrun with lots of contagious and sick COVID patients -- many of whom chose not to get vaccinated that would have reduced their chances of COVID illness.

 

 

Nothing to do with the unfounded paranoia then?

[Roo Island]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Maybe it's also motivated by science. Science not paid for by big pharma.

Kansas politicians motivated by science?

[Roo Island]

3 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

Whys that different, appointments were cancelled because of Covid. How many missed early diagnosis of conditions that could have been treated but ended up going the other way.,  think you are the one who is bizarre.

Appointments that wouldn't have had to be canceled if people got the jab.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

Or maybe many first world countries over report, IE dying with and not because. Guess we will never know.

 

 

There's no credible information that overall, over the course of the pandemic, that COVID deaths have been over-reported in first world countries. Even in places like the U.S. official COVID deaths even now are still considered to have been undercounted:

 

Covid death toll in US likely 16% higher than official tally, study says

Researchers think undercounting goes beyond overloaded health systems to a lack of awareness of Covid and low levels of testing

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/21/us-covid-death-rate-testing-reporting

 

AND

 

Quarter of US COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented by vaccination: analysis

04/22/22

 

A new analysis finds that approximately 234,000 U.S. deaths from COVID-19 since June 2021 could have been prevented if people had been vaccinated.  

 

The analysis from the Peterson Center on Healthcare and the Kaiser Family Foundation underscores the importance of vaccination, and indicates a significant portion of the heavy toll from the virus could have been prevented.  

 

The 234,000 preventable deaths translates to about one quarter of the nearly 1 million U.S. deaths from the virus since the pandemic began, and 60 percent of the deaths since June 2021, when vaccines became widely available.  

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3459664-quarter-of-us-covid-19-deaths-could-have-been-prevented-by-vaccination-analysis/

 

 

Edited June 21 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sungod]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

There's no credible information that overall, over the course of the pandemic, that COVID deaths have been over-reported in first world countries. Even in places like the U.S. official COVID deaths even now are still considered to have been undercounted:

 

Covid death toll in US likely 16% higher than official tally, study says

Researchers think undercounting goes beyond overloaded health systems to a lack of awareness of Covid and low levels of testing

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/21/us-covid-death-rate-testing-reporting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, 'considered'. So no credible evidence for that either, just speculation. Love the use of the word 'likely'

[sungod]

4 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Appointments that wouldn't have had to be canceled if people got the jab.

 

And hospitals cancelling appointments before the vaccine became available?

[dinsdale]

13 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Kansas politicians motivated by science?

You show your magnificent grasp of discourse once again. This is a court case. In a court case evidence is presented. There will be scientific and statistical evidence and more presented. Are you concerned that it might turn out that all you have been told and believed was and is a giant lie? 

Edited June 21 by dinsdale

[Amethyst]

An off-topic post for this thread, which is not about the origins of the COVID pandemic, has been removed.

 

Nor is this Thailand News thread about litigation filed in the U.S. regarding the Pfizer COVID vaccine, which has its own separate thread here on this forum.

[dinsdale]

48 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Appointments that wouldn't have had to be canceled if people got the jab.

Lock Down? Mean anything? Fear? Some people were scared to go out. Some still are. Also are you saying that if people didn't get jabbed they wouldn't (or shouldn't?) get medical care? Of course some people didn't trust the rushed to market mRNA technology. Should they have been denied medical care?

Edited June 21 by dinsdale

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking personally, I did my best to avoid hospitals and hospital visits during the COVID pandemic here in Thailand because -- in the absence of something absolutely requiring it -- I didn't want to be around and be exposed to large numbers of other people already sick and contagious with COVID.

 

 And I didn't want/need to be adding, unless absolutely necessary, to the tremendous burdens that COVID already placed on overworked doctors and nurses here and elsewhere, many of whom became sick and many globally died in the pandemic. That's not too hard an idea to figure out.

 

Edited June 21 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Roo Island]

24 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Lock Down? Mean anything? Fear? Some people were scared to go out. Some still are. Also are you saying that if people didn't get jabbed they wouldn't (or shouldn't?) get medical care? Of course some people didn't trust the rushed to market mRNA technology. Should they have been denied medical care?

I kinda enjoyed the lock down in Thailand. Wasn't afraid at all as we took the proper precautions. Don't misquote me. That's bs. Many were scared due to misinformation on social media outlets and dodgy right wing media outlets.

[dinsdale]

27 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Speaking personally, I did my best to avoid hospitals and hospital visits during the COVID pandemic here in Thailand because -- in the absence of something absolutely requiring it -- I didn't want to be around and be exposed to large numbers of other people already sick with COVID.

 

 And I didn't want/need to be adding, unless absolutely necessary, to the tremendous burdens that COVID already placed on overworked doctors and nurses here and elsewhere, many of whom became sick and many globally died in the pandemic. That's not too hard an idea to figure out.

 

Yep people died. Vaccinated and unvaccinated. Those wearing masks even when they were alone in a car and those that didn't wear masks may have fallen victim. That's before Omicron.

Edited June 21 by dinsdale

[dinsdale]

15 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

I kinda enjoyed the lock down in Thailand. Wasn't afraid at all as we took the proper precautions. Don't misquote me. That's bs. Many were scared due to misinformation on social media outlets and dodgy right wing media outlets.

Misinformation such as what? Vaccines can cause injury or even kill you? You can still get and spread covid even if you get jabbed? Is this the type of right wing misinformation you're talking about. Of course it's now fact not misinformation. Lab leak? Pure conspiracy. 

Edited June 21 by dinsdale

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

 

I'd agree that the vaccine helped the vulnerable, but for the rest of us.....

Sadly some on this forum will never admit to or even consider that the majority of people didn't need to be jabbed. I've said before that I got Delta before I got jabbed. 

Edited June 21 by dinsdale

[Roo Island]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Sadly some on this forum will never admit to or even consider that the majority of people didn't need to be jabbed. I've said before that I got Delta before I got jabbed. 

And your credentials are? Medical professional? Scientist? Researcher?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

  

18 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Misinformation such as what? Vaccines can cause injury or even kill you? You can still get and spread covid even if you get jabbed? Is this the type of right wing misinformation you're talking about. Of course it's now fact not misinformation. Lab leak? Pure conspiracy. 

 

 

"Botched public health messaging also allowed for [COVID vaccine] misinformation to run rampant. Rare adverse events associated with the COVID vaccine have been severely overplayed and spread like wildfire on social media.

 

"Patients need to know that like any vaccine, vaccine injury does occur, but these vaccines have a better safety profile than almost any others," Al-Aly said. "The rewards of getting the vaccine far outweigh the risks, and patients need to understand that."

 

Medscape

May 02, 2024

 

https://archive.ph/BxlSZ#selection-967.1-967.13

 

AND

 

"False and misleading information about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines on social media often exaggerates the frequency and severity of side effects. Misinformation also wrongly attributes unrelated medical events to the vaccines. Vaccine misinformation leading individuals to decline vaccination has very likely led to many more deaths than adverse effects of the vaccines.

...

There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have contributed to excess mortality during the pandemic. Excess mortality largely coincides with peaks of SARS-CoV-2 infections, particularly during the first waves when vaccines were not available. In fact, there is strong evidence that COVID-19 vaccines save lives and prevent the serious harm associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

https://icmra.info/drupal/strategicinitiatives/vaccines/safety_statement

 

 International Coalition of Medicines Regulatory Authorities

 

Edited June 21 by TallGuyJohninBKK