Engaging with Russians during wartime in Thailand?

[bluemoon58]

6 hours ago, blazes said:

 

What on earth do you mean by this weird phrase?

 

What do I have to do while walking around Pattaya to avoid looking "counter-cultural"?

Ooh, I absolutely love a hyphen! I agree with you btw. 

[dlclark97]

Contrary to many of the comments above I have enjoyed the company of some Russian people.  Granted my encounter with them was before the current war broke out.  And we were living together with others on a boat for six days of SCUBA diving.  We were in Indonesian waters at the time.  There were 5 Russians aboard, one was an interpreter.  They were all businessmen in their 40's and early 50's with some English, but the interpreter was there when needed.  After a day of diving, it is common to sit at the bow of the boat conversing about the day's activities and having something to drink.  Much of my communications with them were about the 'old' vs the 'new' Russia.  There were many interesting and enlightening discussions every night we were together.  And I was never able to get my glass more than half empty without being offered a refill.  Obviously, these Russians were of the more affluent and well-educated class, probably somewhat different from the groups now arriving at places such as Pattaya and the Jomtien Beach area.  Even there though I have the occasional opportunity for short and pleasant conversations with some Russians usually when we are in a restaurant at adjacent tables where it is easy to start a conversation while you await your order or in a few relaxing minutes after eating.  It does not seem hard to get a conversation going.  Try just saying hello, and how are you enjoying Thailand?

[Jingthing]

48 minutes ago, Nabby said:

Met a huge drunken Russian in a bar in Phnom Penh recently who was shouting loudly in English that Ukraine will be destroyed next month, that he hates Poland, and that while he is "easy guy, I easy guy" -America is "big gangster country" that causes all of world's problems. He then shouted for everyone to "vote Trump, save America". He said he lives in Phuket, and would love to return to Russia, but he cannot. He looked like a body-builder very much able to serve on the battlefield, but for some unexplained reason, he's stuck in Phuket and has to cheer from the sidelines. 

He certainly fits a stereotype.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, bluemoon58 said:

You men of fighting age! 

If you say so.

[spidermike007]

I have certainly made an effort over the years. Not had much success, as they simply do not want to engage. They are extremely tribal people. I have friends who know younger Russians. And they say they are kind, friendly and progressive. I have no idea what percentage of the population these younger people represent, nor how representative they are of the Russian population. Personally, I have met very few friendly Russians. Anywhere in the world. The vast majority of Russians I have met, seem to have very, very few redeeming qualities. It is no wonder. I can only speak from my experience. Have run into alot of Russians both in the US, and on Phuket and Samui, 98% of them seem to be grumpy, unfriendly and gruff. Some of them are downright hostile. Likely a reflection of a very, very rough culture and environment. So, perhaps it is not a coincidence that the world is not standing up to support them and show them kindness? Just an observation.

I think it is a reflection of the current culture. It was destroyed over a century of callous and murderous leadership. Stalin, Lenin, Khruschev, now Putin. They have become somewhat savage and crude. No grace, no finesse, no courtesy. Rather uncivilized. My family was from Russia a few generations back. I used to ask my great-grandmother when she was still around, why they didn't teach us anything about the old country. She would give me this look, and tell me "the reason we never teach you about the place we came from, is because the place we came from was the most horrific country on earth, it was the most destitute, horrible, oppressive place and we were thrilled to finally get out of there and leave it behind. That's why we don't teach you about the old country, the old country doesn't exist for us. 

There are a multitude of reasons why very few around the world have sympathy for the Russians. Those reasons are not limited to their serial killing, despot, thieving multi billionaire dictator for life. It is more about their nature, their history as ruthless, homicidal Cossack warriors, and their total lack of manners, and class. Not to mention the dignity, class, decency, civility, and social skills decades of Leninism, Stalinism, and now Putinism has stripped them of. 
 
And of course, the utter failure of their leader. This is a clear case of psychological projection: Putin dreamt and failed to create a dollar-free world and establish Russia as an “energy superpower.” He allowed corruption to metastasize through the state’s fabric, undermining its security capabilities. With its mass emigration, skyrocketing divorce rate, and low fertility, Russia, more than the West, demonstrates an immense collapse of family and social values.
 

[Jingthing]

To counter some silly assumptions, no I don't regard Russian or any other people as alien species. 

I have many Russian relatives, grew up among second generation Russian kids, even was part of a play program.with the son of a Soviet spy. I've had a few random encounters with Russians in Thailand but before the war. In some cases they were brainwashed anti American. In one case I was injured on a baht bus yes there was blood along with a young provincial Russian couple and they couldn't have been more kind.

But the times are different  now.

Thus the topic.

[dutch boy]

Two different years during the 1990's I traveled around Russia with a Russian guide. My guide was a Russian head banger who loved Nirvana. He was from Omsk in the southern part of Russia. This was his first time to get out of his city and tour Russia. We mostly traveled by train and went exploring. These trips were so enjoyable partly because I was able to experience the wonderment and excitement of this young man in seeing his country for the first time. We met many people along the way. We were invited into homes where they fed us, offered us housing, and played the guitar for us. It seemed like everywhere we went, when the Russians discovered I was not Russian, offered us Vodka. In the famous underground subway system, people would get up from their seats and invite me to sit there. In the hotels we often got a knock on the door by a beautiful Russian women offering their services. I was invited into schools to speak about life in my country.

 

While walking down the famous Nevsky Prospect in St. Petersburg, a little old lady grabbed my arm and said something to me. I asked by guide what she said. My guide said she welcomes me to Russia. I asked my guide how she knew I was not Russian. He said because you are smiling. So when you see the Russians in Thailand that do not seem friendly, you have to remember that they have suffered through decades of stifling communism and just do not behave the way Western people do. Try to say hello to them, you just might be offered a shot of Vodka.

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Under what law in Thailand to do that?

 

You mean....

A law might be required?

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

26 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

Contrary to many of the comments above I have enjoyed the company of some Russian people.  Granted my encounter with them was before the current war broke out.  And we were living together with others on a boat for six days of SCUBA diving.  We were in Indonesian waters at the time.  There were 5 Russians aboard, one was an interpreter.  They were all businessmen in their 40's and early 50's with some English, but the interpreter was there when needed.  After a day of diving, it is common to sit at the bow of the boat conversing about the day's activities and having something to drink.  Much of my communications with them were about the 'old' vs the 'new' Russia.  There were many interesting and enlightening discussions every night we were together.  And I was never able to get my glass more than half empty without being offered a refill.  Obviously, these Russians were of the more affluent and well-educated class, probably somewhat different from the groups now arriving at places such as Pattaya and the Jomtien Beach area.  Even there though I have the occasional opportunity for short and pleasant conversations with some Russians usually when we are in a restaurant at adjacent tables where it is easy to start a conversation while you await your order or in a few relaxing minutes after eating.  It does not seem hard to get a conversation going.  Try just saying hello, and how are you enjoying Thailand?

 

While on the boat, did you meet anyone quite like Pavel Cherenkov?

 

I am sure you would have remembered him if you had seen him, before the war.

 

 

 

[chippendale]

I'm not at war with Russia, don't care what the media or my government instruct me to think. So if I meet a friendly Russian then I'll talk to her. I also enjoy reading Chekhov's short stories.

 

Having said that, I have found a lot of Russians in Thailand to be boorish and rude.

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, chippendale said:

I'm not at war with Russia, don't care what the media or my government instruct me to think. So if I meet a friendly Russian then I'll talk to her. I also enjoy reading Chekhov's short stories.

 

Having said that, I have found a lot of Russians in Thailand to be boorish and rude.

 

Maybe it would be good to attend more research conferences where many Russians hang out.

 

If you want to meet some Russians, then why not begin here, at Thammasat University?

 

https://www.tiara-tu.ac.th/site/ourCenRussia

 

When one attends a university research conference, the differences in culture quickly melt away.

 

Everyone gets along, just fine.

 

This is the beauty of Science.

 

 

 

[Sandboxer]

I much prefer the average Russian to the average AN native English speaker, pre AND post "the idiot expansionist West broke too many promises and treaties" special military operation.

[ChrisKC]

I have not actually engaged with or even met any Russians but meeting a stranger of any kind depends on the circumstances of the meeting and that in turn determines how either of us will start and continue some kind of dialogue.

Some Forum Members are keen to send "them" back and equally so, the Chinese and the Indians for different reasons.

 

Personally, I am friendly to all those I meet and all are happy to return the same level to me!

 

Where people (strangers) are from is only of casual interest to me!

[NativeBob]

18 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Maybe it would be good to attend more research conferences where many Russians hang out.

If you want to meet some Russians, then why not begin here, at Thammasat University?

https://www.tiara-tu.ac.th/site/ourCenRussia

When one attends a university research conference, the differences in culture quickly melt away.

Everyone gets along, just fine.

 

 

 

Strange, but seems the only place they teach Russian is Thammasat. Isn't?

 

When Bangkok subway (tube) construction was only started they employed Russians to dig tunnels. Unfortunately language barrier was such an issue that they had to cancel the contract. However those tough guys were quite entertaining back than: huge and very friendly. 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

3 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

Some Forum Members are keen to send "them" back and equally so, the Chinese

And Me too?

 

Are any Forum Members anxious to send Me back, too?

 

If it can happen to them, then it can happen to me.

 

Let's all recall the writings of Sinclair Lewis the famous muckraker, who wrote.....

 

IT CAN't HAPPEN HERE!

 

 

Bigotry, bias, and prejudice are the enemies of common decency.

 

I read all of this guy's books when I was very young, around 11. When we read such things at such an early age, it sticks to our ribs. His books are easy to read for someone, aged 11. But, also, hard to forget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

You are wrong.  Both legally and morally, individually or collectively, you are the citizen of your country and that collective responsibility cannot be shrugged off, unless you give up that citizenship.  That is a fact. If my country went to war, I would go to war.  Its why I spent 24 years in the UK military.  Fortunately for me, my country is democratic and is not run by a bunch of psychopath criminals.  My country is also not a peasant society, brough up to believe in blind obedience to mafia dictators. 

i think a few in Iraq might say something different to say about that

[John Drake]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's fair to hate those kinds of behaviors but it's unfair to put all Russian people in the same boat.

 

All I can do is make judgments based on my individual encounters. And they are uniformly and without exception negative. Unlike, I might add, formal and informal encounters with PRC  Chinese, many of whom have been quite nice and engaging. With the Russians, it amounts to them blocking the escalators rather than stepping aside once they get off, pushing and shoving on the BTS, pounding on restaurant tables, breaking in line and shoving their friends in front of you, giving hostile stare downs to others when monopolizing a space, crowding on to elevators, pestering sales clerks, etc. I've not had or seen one single positive encounter with them. Of course, I don't give them questionnaires to discover what their attitude is towards political or social topics. Maybe underneath all the hostility and aggression they're all like Albert Schweitzer. But I doubt it. And I'm only interested in avoiding them, not saying hello how are you.

[ChrisKC]

3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

And Me too?

 

Are any Forum Members anxious to send Me back, too?

 

If it can happen to them, then it can happen to me.

 

Let's all recall the writings of Sinclair Lewis the famous muckraker, who wrote.....

 

IT CAN't HAPPEN HERE!

 

 

Bigotry, bias, and prejudice are the enemies of common decency.

 

I read all of this guy's books when I was very young, around 11. When we read such things at such an early age, it sticks to our ribs. His books are easy to read for someone, aged 11. But, also, hard to forget.

 

 

And Me too?

 

Some Forum Members, doesn't include me, that wish in a general sense to send "them" back just because - that is prejudicial and not my style!

 

As it relates to you, personally, I have responded to comments of yours but never to suggest you go back to where you come from - out of casual interest, is that England or USA?

 

I do think that the book you highlight above suggests an exaggeration of what personal (mis)apprehensions you may have especially as that relates to internal politics in a country and not the opinions of a few bigoted people on social platforms.

 

 

[ChrisKC]

And Me too?

 

Some Forum Members, doesn't include me, that wish in a general sense to send "them" back just because - that is prejudicial and not my style!

 

As it relates to you, personally, I have responded to comments of yours but never to suggest you go back to where you come from - out of casual interest, is that England or USA?

 

I do think that the book you highlight above suggests an exaggeration of what personal (mis)apprehensions you may have especially as that relates to internal politics in a country and not the opinions of a few bigoted people on social platforms.

[GammaGlobulin]

7 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

I do think that the book you highlight above suggests an exaggeration of what personal (mis)apprehensions you may have especially as that relates to internal politics in a country and not the opinions of a few bigoted people on social platforms.

 

Please consider this book through the lens of its time, 1935, and also, I was about 11 when I last read this novel, which is a novel, after all.

 

I read this one, too.

 

 

[ChrisKC]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Please consider this book through the lens of its time, 1935, and also, I was about 11 when I last read this novel, which is a novel, after all.

 

 

You have "used" that book as an example in context of current affairs and your associated comment of "could it happen to me"?

 

But I am not about to argue more on this point!

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

out of casual interest, is that England or USA?

 

Yes.

Also, other places.

Mostly, East Asia.

 

There is no better place than Chiang Mai, for old people.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

You have "used" that book as an example in context of current affairs and your associated comment of "could it happen to me"?

 

But I am not about to argue more on this point!

 

No need to debate with you:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/books/review/classic-novel-that-predicted-trump-sinclar-lewis-it-cant-happen-here.html

 

Just read.

 

Still, I was not thinking of any particular book written by Sinclair Lewis as much as I was thinking of his views, in general, about bigotry and exclusion.  If you are a Trump fan, then there would be no point in any discussion, anyway.

 

Note:  Yes.  It could happen to you, or me, or anyone.....

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

27 minutes ago, John Drake said:

And they are uniformly and without exception negative. Unlike, I might add, formal and informal encounters with PRC  Chinese, many of whom have been quite nice and engaging.

 

Some of my best friends are Chinese.

But, not the Russians.

Is this what you mean?

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

Anyway, I do not know about all Russians.

But, I know that SOME Russians are OK.....

You need to get out more, and then....
Meet a few of the good ones.

 

 

 

This is for you, JT.

Enjoy!

 

 

[ChrisKC]

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

No need to debate with you:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/books/review/classic-novel-that-predicted-trump-sinclar-lewis-it-cant-happen-here.html

 

Just read.

 

Still, I was not thinking of any particular book written by Sinclair Lewis as much as I was thinking of his views, in general, about bigotry and exclusion.  If you are a Trump fan, then there would be no point in any discussion, anyway.

 

Note:  Yes.  It could happen to you, or me, or anyone.....

 

 

 

If you are a Trump fan, then there would be no point in any discussion, anyway.

 

You cited only one book - stop being over-defensive!

 

There is no call for being offensive - keep it to yourself!

[BobBKK]

Lots of xenophobia on here. Having been to Russia and Ukraine seventeen times, I can tell you my personal observations. Russians are a warm and friendly people, and I never felt any hint of hostility there. Ukrainians, the young ones, were aggressive, and from personal experience, the Police were corrupt. Both spoke Russian predominantly, and the difference between them was unnoticeable. I was there when Yeltsin was president and obviously Putin. There are good and bad everywhere. Like most people, they like to be amongst their own kind - Slavs. I have found that with Americans, Africans, Jews, Thais - no difference - birds of a feather etc.

[John Drake]

19 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Some of my best friends are Chinese.

But, not the Russians.

Is this what you mean?

 

 

 

No, what I meant is what I wrote. 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

No, what I meant is what I wrote. 

 

Forgive me, but it sort of sounds like:  "The only good indian is a dead indian".  And, we know that cannot be true.

 

As I stated, you should get out more, and meet some Russians more to your taste.

 

Might I suggest:  The Russian Tea Room in NYC?

 

Oh, so solly, it has moved out of Central Park.....

 

 

Actually, I am not yet sure why so many here dislike the Russians.

 

Humans are Humans.

 

If you want to find the more refined Russians, to suit your refined tastes, rather than the boorish Russians people here seem to be complaining about....

 

Then you just need to change your haunts where you hang out.

 

Obviously, you are hanging out in all the wrong places, it seems to me.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, chippendale said:

I'm not at war with Russia, don't care what the media or my government instruct me to think. So if I meet a friendly Russian then I'll talk to her. I also enjoy reading Chekhov's short stories.

 

Having said that, I have found a lot of Russians in Thailand to be boorish and rude.

 

 

Russians and Americans are "Loud and Ostentatious", I guess.....

 

That's just the way it will always be, I guess.....