student visa and non b visa issue

Leviiirx · July 2

Hello guys,

I was on student visa and finished my program last March 2024. I secured a job in Thailand already and my plan was to cancel my student visa, go to the border and apply the non B visa, come back in and apply work permit and extend the non b visa. However, the issue arises with my student visa cancellation.

My official graduation will be on Oct 2024 but the university system flagged me as graduated on April 2024 without notifying me. As my visa is still valid till 31 May 2024, I keep staying in the country until I was about to go out for applying Non - B visa at the border.

Before I flew out of the country on May 17, I went to immigration to cancel my student visa on May 16. But they told me that I overstayed because university tagged me as graduated since 4th of April. They forced me to fly out of country without canceling my visa and asked me to apply new non B visa at the border and come cancel and pay fine at the immigration when I extend my non B visa back in the country.

My question here is that as I already got the new non B visa and work permit in thailand, i will have to extend my non b visa this month, any chance I could avoid the stamp and fine without canceling backwards for the student visa?

Sorry for the complex writing. and thank you for any of your inputs.

Maestro · July 2

7 minutes ago, Leviiirx said:

...student visa...

When you say student visa, do you mean Non-immigrant visa category ED or do you mean extension of stay for the reason of studying?

bigt3116 · July 3

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

When you say student visa, do you mean Non-immigrant visa category ED or do you mean extension of stay for the reason of studying?

He can't possibly be on a visa, as that would not have incurred overstay.

bigt3116 · July 3

7 hours ago, Leviiirx said:

But they told me that I overstayed because university tagged me as graduated since 4th of April. They forced me to fly out of country without canceling my visa and asked me to apply new non B visa at the border and come cancel and pay fine at the immigration when I extend my non B visa back in the country.

Is this not the answer to your question? You overstayed by about 56 days, so you will have to pay the 20k fine, and get the stamp.

CLW · July 3

14 hours ago, Leviiirx said:

Hello guys,

I was on student visa and finished my program last March 2024. I secured a job in Thailand already and my plan was to cancel my student visa, go to the border and apply the non B visa, come back in and apply work permit and extend the non b visa. However, the issue arises with my student visa cancellation.

My official graduation will be on Oct 2024 but the university system flagged me as graduated on April 2024 without notifying me. As my visa is still valid till 31 May 2024, I keep staying in the country until I was about to go out for applying Non - B visa at the border.

Before I flew out of the country on May 17, I went to immigration to cancel my student visa on May 16. But they told me that I overstayed because university tagged me as graduated since 4th of April. They forced me to fly out of country without canceling my visa and asked me to apply new non B visa at the border and come cancel and pay fine at the immigration when I extend my non B visa back in the country.

My question here is that as I already got the new non B visa and work permit in thailand, i will have to extend my non b visa this month, any chance I could avoid the stamp and fine without canceling backwards for the student visa?

Sorry for the complex writing. and thank you for any of your inputs.

How can immigration know that your university tagged you as graduated since 4th of April?

Rob Browder · July 3

17 hours ago, Leviiirx said:

... i will have to extend my non b visa this month, any chance I could avoid the stamp and fine without canceling backwards for the student visa?

I would see if an agent will handle your Non-B extension, which might make the problem "just go away" - hopefully, without an overstay on your immigration record. Hopefully your employer uses an agent, given the PITA of that type of extension - but if they are too stingy to take care of their employees properly, you will need to hire one yourself.

Leviiirx · July 3

23 hours ago, Maestro said:

When you say student visa, do you mean Non-immigrant visa category ED or do you mean extension of stay for the reason of studying?

I think it would be under extension of stay because it was an extension to 3 months ed visa which I applied outside of Thailand.

Leviiirx · July 3

15 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

Is this not the answer to your question? You overstayed by about 56 days, so you will have to pay the 20k fine, and get the stamp.

Exactly, just curious if any chance I could avoid the stamp because I already had a new non - b visa over the existing student visa. Paying fine is not a problem although a bit too much for 45 days, but the problem would be the overstay stamp on my passport.

Leviiirx · July 3

9 hours ago, CLW said:

How can immigration know that your university tagged you as graduated since 4th of April?

Because I have to show the certificate of completion for the program I attended, which I need to request to the university two weeks before my student visa cancellation day, to the immigration. On that certificate, the registrar office marked as the program completion day as 4th April, but my official graduation day would be on 3rd Oct. So basically, the immigration takes the 4th April as the graduation day because they just check that certificate.

Leviiirx · July 3

6 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

I would see if an agent will handle your Non-B extension, which might make the problem "just go away" - hopefully, without an overstay on your immigration record. Hopefully your employer uses an agent, given the PITA of that type of extension - but if they are too stingy to take care of their employees properly, you will need to hire one yourself.

Unfortunately, my employer just uses their HR team to deal the visa matters of their foreign employees.

Maestro · July 3

1 hour ago, Leviiirx said:

Unfortunately, my employer just uses their HR team to deal the visa matters of their foreign employees.

I'd say it is fortunate that your employer's Human Relations department handles your visa and immigration matters because you seem to be confused with what you really have and the terminology. Don't worry about that, even immigration offices and many posters on this forum mix up the terminology.

With the clarification you provided, it looks very much like the immigration official who told you that you would have to pay an overstay fine may have been wrong or that you misunderstood what he said. Leave it in the hands of the HR team and all will be fine.

Maestro · July 3

@Leviiirx

If I understand your opening post of this topic and your later clarification correctly,

your last extension of stay for the reason of studying had 31 May 2024 as the expiration date
you left Thailand on 17 May 2024 without a re-entry permit to an unnamed country, where you applied at the Thai embassy or a Thai consulate for and were granted a non-immigrant visa category B (non-B visa, for short)
subsequently, you travelled to Thailand with the non-B visa and your passport was stamped with an arrival stamp giving you permission to stay for 90 days
you currently have a valid work permit

On the basis of the above premises, you are not currently and have not been on overstay and you are not liable to pay an overstay fine. If you had been subject to a fine, it would have been collected from you when you left Thailand on 17 May 2024.

Ideally, a member of your HR team should accompany you when you apply for the one-year extension of stay for the reason of employment. If the immigration official insists on fining you for overstaying, make sure that the official shows you the receipt that will be given to you in return for your payment of the fine.

CLW · July 4

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

@Leviiirx

If I understand your opening post of this topic and your later clarification correctly,

your last extension of stay for the reason of studying had 31 May 2024 as the expiration date

you left Thailand on 17 May 2024 without a re-entry permit to an unnamed country, where you applied at the Thai embassy or a Thai consulate for and were granted a non-immigrant visa category B (non-B visa, for short)

subsequently, you travelled to Thailand with the non-B visa and your passport was stamped with an arrival stamp giving you permission to stay for 90 days

you currently have a valid work permit

On the basis of the above premises, you are not currently and have not been on overstay and you are not liable to pay an overstay fine. If you had been subject to a fine, it would have been collected from you when you left Thailand on 17 May 2024.

Ideally, a member of your HR team should accompany you when you apply for the one-year extension of stay for the reason of employment. If the immigration official insists on fining you for overstaying, make sure that the official shows you the receipt that will be given to you in return for your payment of the fine.

I think the "problem" is that the OP went to immigration one day before leaving the country to cancel his ED-Visa.

He simply should not have done this and just leaving the country without re-entry permit to invalidate his ED-Visa.

No one would have known about this date 4 April on his letter from the registrar. Because usually the university doesn't update the status of their students to immigration

Leviiirx · July 6

On 7/4/2024 at 1:30 AM, Maestro said:

Ideally, a member of your HR team should accompany you when you apply for the one-year extension of stay for the reason of employment. If the immigration official insists on fining you for overstaying, make sure that the official shows you the receipt that will be given to you in return for your payment of the fine.

Will do so, really appreciate your suggestion.

On 7/4/2024 at 1:30 AM, Maestro said:

On the basis of the above premises, you are not currently and have not been on overstay and you are not liable to pay an overstay fine.

As you mentioned, I am a bit confused with all these rules and regulations. From what some agents said is that the immigration cannot do the extension of stay with the purpose of work if they haven't cancel my last student visa yet. This means the immigration has to cancel the currently active student visa first in order to apply for the new non b visa. My little brain is not functioning haha.

On 7/4/2024 at 12:51 AM, Maestro said:

With the clarification you provided, it looks very much like the immigration official who told you that you would have to pay an overstay fine may have been wrong or that you misunderstood what he said. Leave it in the hands of the HR team and all will be fine.

Hopefully, everything be alright. Thank you for all of your advices and suggestion again.

Leviiirx · July 6

On 7/4/2024 at 3:17 PM, CLW said:

He simply should not have done this and just leaving the country without re-entry permit to invalidate his ED-Visa.

No one would have known about this date 4 April on his letter from the registrar. Because usually the university doesn't update the status of their students to immigration

The reason I want to cancel my visa was that I have heard that they cannot override a new visa if the current visa is still active. And I also heard the current visa cannot be cancelled just by flying out and it will still be there in their system if you intend to come back into the country, apply another visa and work.

But still on the other hand, there is an immigration rule that your visa can be cancelled if you fly out without reentry permit. All those regulations are sometimes contrast to each other, that's why I just went to immigration to be safe. Unfortunately, my stupid faculty staffs didn't inform me my graduation date in the system and it all messed up.

Edited July 6 by Leviiirx

Maestro · July 6

1 hour ago, Leviiirx said:

As you mentioned, I am a bit confused with all these rules and regulations. From what some agents said is that the immigration cannot do the extension of stay with the purpose of work if they haven't cancel my last student visa yet. This means the immigration has to cancel the currently active student visa first in order to apply for the new non b visa. My little brain is not functioning haha.

That procedure would have applied if you had not left Thailand and subsequently entered with a non-B visa.

When you left Thailand without a re-entry permit for your extension based on education, that extension was automatically cancelled, invalidated.

Now, employment is the basis for your new one-year extension. In other words, you are not changing the reason for an existing extension, but you are applying for a new extension based on your entry with a new visa for the purpose of employment.

Liquorice · July 6

On 7/2/2024 at 11:16 PM, Leviiirx said:

Hello guys,

I was on student visa and finished my program last March 2024. I secured a job in Thailand already and my plan was to cancel my student visa, go to the border and apply the non B visa, come back in and apply work permit and extend the non b visa. However, the issue arises with my student visa cancellation.

On 7/4/2024 at 12:51 AM, Maestro said:

I'd say it is fortunate that your employer's Human Relations department handles your visa and immigration matters because you seem to be confused with what you really have and the terminology. Don't worry about that, even immigration offices and many posters on this forum mix up the terminology.

Just to elaborate on Maestro's comments.
The validity of a visa is the period during which you can enter Thailand.

On entry, you are granted a period of stay (Non ED 90 days).
You can then extend that period of stay, (extension of stay)which is a permit, not a visa.

Your visa was 'used' on entry and cannot be extended.

Yes, rather confusing because agents and Immigration alike refer to extensions of your permission of stay, as visas.

If you look at the Non B visa you used to enter Thailand, it should have a 'used' stamp across it.
You were given a stamp permitting you to stay for 90 days .... 'permitted to stay until xx xx xx'
It is that 90 day permission of stay you will shortly be applying to extend for a further 1 year.

Liquorice · July 6

On 7/2/2024 at 11:16 PM, Leviiirx said:

Before I flew out of the country on May 17, I went to immigration to cancel my student visa on May 16. But they told me that I overstayed because university tagged me as graduated since 4th of April.

Immigration are correct.

Whatever document you gave them from the Uni, had a date of termination of your permission of stay.
From what you stated, that would have been 4th April.
You state the Uni never informed you, but they don't inform Immigration, so you obviously had something that informed them of this date.

You overstayed from 4th April to 17th May.

https://app.nurse.cmu.ac.th/overseavisa/assets/pdf/Important.pdf

Liquorice · July 6

6 hours ago, Maestro said:

That procedure would have applied if you had not left Thailand and subsequently entered with a non-B visa.

When you left Thailand without a re-entry permit for your extension based on education, that extension was automatically cancelled, invalidated.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1310995-is-it-necessary-to-cancel-an-ed-visa-if-leaving-the-country/

I suspect the OP had a letter of cancellation, that is how Immigration knew the date.
He didn't cancel his permission of stay and leave on, or prior to, that date.

d4dang · July 6

On 7/3/2024 at 2:47 AM, CLW said:

How can immigration know that your university tagged you as graduated since 4th of April?

ED visas are under scrutiny as many students paid and registered but did not attend classes. Immi now requires educational institutions to inform them of the students status. He graduated April 4th and is no longer attending classes. Seem the Language Schools can't enroll ghost students or submit phoney attendance records.

bigt3116 · July 6

15 hours ago, Maestro said:

That procedure would have applied if you had not left Thailand and subsequently entered with a non-B visa.

When you left Thailand without a re-entry permit for your extension based on education, that extension was automatically cancelled, invalidated.

Now, employment is the basis for your new one-year extension. In other words, you are not changing the reason for an existing extension, but you are applying for a new extension based on your entry with a new visa for the purpose of employment.

Incorrect according to this sites visa expert, "Leaving the country without canceling an ED extension of stay does NOT stop you from getting a new visa at a thai consulate in another country BUT it certainly might cause you problems when you go to get a new extension at the immigration office because they will notice you failed to cancel your previous extension correctly."

Maestro · July 7

Yes, it "might".

I am confident that the OP will post the outcome in this topic when, in about two months, he applies for his first one-year extension of stay for the reason of employment. Until then, any further speculation seems futile.

Rob Browder · July 10

On 7/7/2024 at 5:03 AM, d4dang said:

ED visas are under scrutiny as many students paid and registered but did not attend classes. Immi now requires educational institutions to inform them of the students status. He graduated April 4th and is no longer attending classes. Seem the Language Schools can't enroll ghost students or submit phoney attendance records.

Rather, they are "under scrutiny" unless they pay the piper. They "crack down" on schools / students not paying the piper. Don't let the rhetoric fool you.

d4dang · July 11

On 7/10/2024 at 8:48 AM, Rob Browder said:

Rather, they are "under scrutiny" unless they pay the piper. They "crack down" on schools / students not paying the piper. Don't let the rhetoric fool you.

doesn't fool me...

Leviiirx · August 21

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your suggestions last months ago. They were all really helpful for me.

To give you guys up date with my case, the officer who is handling the non b extension did actually notice and asked me to cancel my student visa first before accepting my non b visa extension case.

But fortunately, I prepared another letter with the date of departure as my last day of semester by requesting from my university. So I didn't get any overstay stamps or fine imposed.

Edited August 21 by Leviiirx

DrJack54 · August 21

OP has started another thread.

This one is closed

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