Withdraw with foreign atm or wise transfer safe 2024(tax wise)?

[acepredator]

  On 7/6/2024 at 6:56 AM, Presnock said:

Portugal had started taxing folks already but now has decided they were losing money instead of gaining anything so have dropped that new tax.

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Can I ask why so many people are spending time on this thread talking about Portugal? In case it escaped your notice, we are all living in Thailand, not Portugal, so who the heck cares about what is happening in Portugal? I'd like to respectfully request that people stop wasting time posting about Portugal and instead stick to talking about Thailand. Let the expats living in Portugal worry about what is happening there.

[Celsius]

Meanwhile in Portugal

[Banana7]

If you are in Thailand for 180 days or more in one calendar year, you need to file an income tax return. Using a credit card or ATM card is not taxed according to this lawyer: Thailand Tax Professional: https://mahanakornpartners.com/

[shdmn]

  On 7/9/2024 at 4:32 PM, Banana7 said:

If you are in Thailand for 180 days or more in one calendar year, you need to file an income tax return. Using a credit card or ATM card is not taxed according to this lawyer: Thailand Tax Professional: https://mahanakornpartners.com/

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Some people here are claiming you only need to do that if it's over 65k baht in reportable income.   I would think that even if it's not reportable, you would still want to transfer some into a Thai bank account to make it easy to pay rent and bills and use ATMs without fees. That amount would almost certainly be more than 65k.  Somewhere somehow the Thai gov't would want proof that is not reportable income, so there will still be more of a documentation burden somehow someway.

[Banana7]

  On 7/9/2024 at 4:56 PM, shdmn said:

Some people here are claiming you only need to do that if it's over 65k baht in reportable income.   I would think that even if it's not reportable, you would still want to transfer some into a Thai bank account to make it easy to pay rent and bills and use ATMs without fees. That amount would almost certainly be more than 65k.  Somewhere somehow the Thai gov't would want proof that is not reportable income, so there will still be more of a documentation burden somehow someway.

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watch this video, very good info :

 

[shdmn]

  On 7/9/2024 at 5:05 PM, Banana7 said:

watch this video, very good info :

 

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I did.  There are a lot of the usual knuckleheads here claiming that tax professional, who does this for a living, is wrong, and that we should be listening to anonymous internet people on this forum instead.  🤡

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/9/2024 at 4:32 PM, Banana7 said:

If you are in Thailand for 180 days or more in one calendar year, you need to file an income tax return. Using a credit card or ATM card is not taxed according to this lawyer: Thailand Tax Professional: https://mahanakornpartners.com/

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He is not correct, the TRD has stated otherwise.

[Presnock]

  On 7/9/2024 at 2:53 PM, acepredator said:

Can I ask why so many people are spending time on this thread talking about Portugal? In case it escaped your notice, we are all living in Thailand, not Portugal, so who the heck cares about what is happening in Portugal? I'd like to respectfully request that people stop wasting time posting about Portugal and instead stick to talking about Thailand. Let the expats living in Portugal worry about what is happening there.

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Well, I have advised folks concerned about the new tax interpretations that is happening here and might happen later, in my opinion not as drastic as others, I thought that letting folks know that some countries that decided to tax expats have had 2nd thoughts on that idea too.  Just as we talk about the other ASEAN countries and how they are responding to the changes in the tax world and how it affects the expats.  Also many of the expats in Thailand have expressed INTEREST in how other countries are responding to the tax changes so why should we shut them out just so you are not interested?  Just saying...

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/9/2024 at 2:53 PM, acepredator said:

Can I ask why so many people are spending time on this thread talking about Portugal? In case it escaped your notice, we are all living in Thailand, not Portugal, so who the heck cares about what is happening in Portugal? I'd like to respectfully request that people stop wasting time posting about Portugal and instead stick to talking about Thailand. Let the expats living in Portugal worry about what is happening there.

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I agree. Similar requests have been made regarding Germany but they continue to be posted daily....tiresome and mostly irrelevant really.

[soalbundy]

  On 7/6/2024 at 4:42 AM, proton said:

 

Not if you bring cash in with you it wont, $20k would last me two years

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So flying to the US every 2 years is without cost?

[proton]

  On 7/9/2024 at 11:48 PM, soalbundy said:

So flying to the US every 2 years is without cost?

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Go home every year anyway

[shdmn]

  On 7/9/2024 at 7:32 PM, Mike Lister said:

He is not correct, the TRD has stated otherwise.

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You make a compelling argument. Providing absolutely no evidence other than saying the guy who does this for a living is wrong.  Totally sold me.

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/10/2024 at 12:06 AM, shdmn said:

You make a compelling argument. Providing absolutely no evidence other than saying the guy who does this for a living is wrong.  Totally sold me.

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You've been informed, I really don't care what you believe, don't expect me to dig out chapter and verse to convince you, it doesn't matter to me if you get it wrong.

[StraightTalk]

  On 7/8/2024 at 1:01 AM, proton said:

If the cash is taken out and spent how can they tell what it's spent on, or even who spent it? impossible. If it's a gift it can be spent on anything the giftee chooses 

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Never ever underestimate the tax collection agencies anywhere in the world!

If the TRD revises the law to tax individuals with foreign income, even if that income is not brought into Thailand, it remains to be seen. However, it is certain that the TRD will tax remittances from overseas for tax residents thus closing a previously existing tax loophole.

I fully agree with comments posted by 'soalbundy' Saturday at 07:49 AM and at 09:29 AM and Monday at 07:01 AM.

I am on a Non-Immigrant Visa, which I extend annually based on retirement. I am over 65 years old, married, with no children, and our relationship is stable.

This is what I am planning to do:

Transfer THB 800,000 annually and pay the tax, which currently amounts to THB 16,500 as my private pension is tax free in my country thus it regarded as assessable income. This will comfortably cover our cost of living expenses and the tax payable to the TRD will not break my account.
On my wife's birthday, I will gift her THB 1,000,000, which is currently tax-free, for the purpose of replacing the vehicle(s), air-condition unit(s) etc. and/or corporate and/or government bonds - all in my wife's name.

This would be in my opinion a legal way to keep the TRD off my back.

Lather, rinse, and repeat. Your mileage may vary.

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/6/2024 at 10:25 PM, Mike Lister said:

You need to rethink that strategy because it's tax evasion..

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How?

 

It's a gift from his wife to him. No?

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 10:07 AM, FruitPudding said:

 

How?

 

It's a gift from his wife to him. No?

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He says he has a credit card that allows him to access those funds, which means he is using the funds that were supposed to be a gift. To be a gift, the funds not be returned to the giver in any way.

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 10:11 AM, Mike Lister said:

He says he has a credit card that allows him to access those funds, which means he is using the funds that were supposed to be a gift. To be a gift, the funds not be returned to the giver in any way.

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But on paper, it's a gift, no?

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:00 AM, FruitPudding said:

 

But on paper, it's a gift, no?

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What is written on paper is meant to reflect reality, if it doesn't, that's tax evasion.

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:02 AM, Mike Lister said:

What is written on paper is meant to reflect reality, if it doesn't, that's tax evasion.

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I think his plan is airtight. The funds entered the country as a gift. 

 

How would they know he is using that card anyway?

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:09 AM, FruitPudding said:

 

I think his plan is airtight. The funds entered the country as a gift. 

 

How would they know he is using that card anyway?

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The issue is not about how they would know if he was using the card, he told us he would use it, he therefore admits to tax evasion.

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:13 AM, Mike Lister said:

The issue is not about how they would know if he was using the card, he told us he would use it, he therefore admits to tax evasion.

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So?

 

Are you the taxman? A priest?

 

Why are we debating that? Do you want to pay more taxes?

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:18 AM, FruitPudding said:

 

So?

 

Are you the taxman? A priest?

 

Why are we debating that? Do you want to pay more taxes?

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You asked me why it was tax evasion and I explained. Don't insult me because I gave you an answer you didn't like. I don't care what you do with your taxes, how much you pay or not pay or whether you go to jail or not. Bye.

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:13 AM, Mike Lister said:

The issue is not about how they would know if he was using the card, he told us he would use it, he therefore admits to tax evasion.

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He doesn't have an issue if we know, does he?

 

He only has an issue if they know.

 

Get it right ✅️ 

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:22 AM, Mike Lister said:

You asked me why it was tax evasion and I explained. Don't insult me because I gave you an answer you didn't like. I don't care what you do with your taxes, how much you pay or not pay or whether you go to jail or not. Bye.

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I don't think I asked you why it's tax evasion.

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:24 AM, FruitPudding said:

 

I don't think I asked you why it's tax evasion.

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You wrote:

 

"How?

 

It's a gift from his wife to him. No?"

 

Goodbye, you and me are done here

[FruitPudding]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:29 AM, Mike Lister said:

You wrote:

 

"How?

 

It's a gift from his wife to him. No?"

 

Goodbye, you and me are done here

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Fine, lol.

 

I am just talking about the legal side, not what you and I know.

[stat]

  On 7/20/2024 at 11:13 AM, Mike Lister said:

The issue is not about how they would know if he was using the card, he told us he would use it, he therefore admits to tax evasion.

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It it not yet decided if an ATM withdrawal is a remittance. At least one tax partner stated it is not a remittance. So therefore Mike Lister statement is wrong.

[stat]

  On 7/9/2024 at 10:23 PM, Mike Lister said:

I agree. Similar requests have been made regarding Germany but they continue to be posted daily....tiresome and mostly irrelevant really.

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Some people chose their living place according to the tax laws so it makes perfect sense to discuss other options.

[Mike Lister]

  On 7/20/2024 at 12:06 PM, stat said:

It it not yet decided if an ATM withdrawal is a remittance. At least one tax partner stated it is not a remittance. So therefore Mike Lister statement is wrong.

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ATM Withdrawals and Payments

Expats often ask if withdrawing cash in Thailand from an overseas account or paying a third party, like school fees with a foreign credit card, counts as a remittance taxable in Thailand. The answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/how-crs-enables-thailands-tax-authorities-to-track-your-finances/

Goodbye stat.

 

 

[anrcaccount]

  On 7/20/2024 at 12:46 PM, Mike Lister said:

ATM Withdrawals and Payments

Expats often ask if withdrawing cash in Thailand from an overseas account or paying a third party, like school fees with a foreign credit card, counts as a remittance taxable in Thailand. The answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/how-crs-enables-thailands-tax-authorities-to-track-your-finances/

Goodbye stat.

 

 

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This opinion from one tax advisor, is , at minimum, equally as valid as the opinion of the tax partner Stat cited - Luca Bernadetti, managing partner at Mahanakorn partners, highly connected, deals with public sector government and large businesses in Thailand.

 

I would argue that the tax partner Stat cited is a more authoritative source, but that's my opinion, what makes you so certain your source is right and Stats is wrong?