It's grim out there.

[Mason45]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

But that's retail churn you are commenting on. Businesses closing to be replaced by new ones doesn't mean the new ones are going to be any more successful than the "old lousy businesses run by idiots".

 

I believe that the "place is near the Dolphin circle across from Terminal 21" is going to be another hotel rather than a bar, club and restaurant enclave.

The area would be a very expensive investment to say the least if was only purchased for bars, clubs and restaurants. I even heard a rumour that Lek Villa just of Naklua Road has been penciled in for demolition

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     Retail churn is found everywhere.   One business closes, for whatever reason, and another one opens.  Normal.  Does anyone remember the old, failed eyesore shopping center that was on the large site that now houses the successful Terminal 21?   New businesses can fail, of course, but they can also succeed.   And, often, the new is better than the old.  Something, I can't even remember it was so forgetable, was on the site that now has Centre Point Space, also a success.  The constrution wall says something called Again Pattaya will be built by Dolphin Circle.  I don't know if it will have a hotel component but it's a large plot to be redeveloped.

That 'open market' style shopping center that preceded Terminal 21 was both ugly and a disaster.

 

I did the Google thing and "Again Pattaya" came up with some links to this company that among other interests, appears to have a condo nearby called Once Pattaya.

[connda]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:26 AM, bob smith said:

yesterday I went for a walk in a major tourist hotspot.

All I could see around me were empty bars, restaurants, pubs etc..

 

Not to mention all the boarded up buildings, for sale signs, call to rent signs etc.

Establishments seem to be closing just as fast as they open!

This place is famous worldwide and it is on it's knees.

 

The Thai economy must be in dire straits at the moment.

I was on the blower to a pal of mine who lives really close to another famous tourist hotspot and he said it's the same there too.

 

I have also noticed a steep increase in the prices at certain establishments.

170 baht for a large local beer!

the retail price is between 55-60 baht..

what is going on??

 

The touts also seem extra pushy at the minute.

one tuk-tuk driver tried to physically usher me into his car for a ride.

you can see the worry and angst in their eyes.

maybe some days they don't make anything..

 

It almost makes me feel sorry for them, but then I remember how they treat foreigners when the going is good so it's no wonder they aren't coming back!

about the only place in Thailand that seems to be doing well is Phuket.

but for the life of me I can't figure out why!

 

bob.

 

Don't push me 'cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under.
-Grandmaster Flash

[atpeace]

Mr. Smith - you can do better than this OP.  I look forward to your idiotic post because they usually make me laugh.  This is below you! It lacks even a drop of originality. 

 

Been here since 1998 and at least 100 such posts starting right about now during the SLOW season every year.  Thailand is rolling in tourist and probably always will.  Slower than pre-covid but not by much.  It was so out of control in 2019 and even today compared to a decade ago is roaring crazy.

[atpeace]

8 hours ago, harryviking said:

Lol! Absolutely true! 😄

Great place if you're Russian.  They seem happier than any other nationality in Thailand. I wonder what they think about us?  They probably get a good laugh at our expense. 

 

Agree, Phuket is the pits for westerners IMO.  I wouldn't go there if it was free after my last trip.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've never seen retail churn like in Pattaya, maybe a world record

       I think you're seeing a lot of retail churn in Pattaya because two things are in play.  The city is growing tremendously and both the tourist and the resident demographic has also been changing a lot.   Much of the old retail was, and is, just not hacking it.  Much of it was, and still is, is just not up to what Pattaya's growth and changing demographics want.  You can look at the example I gave of Terminal 21, a new shopping center, with a new shopping center take, replacing an old, tired shopping center.   Both shopping centers, the old one was just not hacking it.  

      It's much the same thing with all the new, large, very nice hotels that have been built, and are still being built. They are catering both to a different tourist demographic and changing tourist tastes and interests.   The massive Centre Point 3 Resort, construction now getting started, I believe is being built on a large plot of land that had been an old, sleepy, rundown resort of tourist bungalows.  It was not what current visitors to Pattaya want to stay at when they come to visit.  Changing tastes and interests.

     I remember in late 2009 or 2010 coming to Pattaya for a day visit when my spouse and I lived outside of Rayong and had not yet moved to Pattaya.  At the time, our Rayong burbs Index was a small, unairconditioned, unattractive warehouse.  We stopped at Pattaya's Index and we were overwhelmed at how great it was compared to ours.  Two floors!  Beautiful displays!  Aircon!  So much more merchandise!  It was literally night and day.  Imagine my shock when, some years later, Pattaya's Index, which I thought was terrific, was torn down and an even bigger, nicer Index was built across the street.   

     You see examples all over town of the same thing.  From newer and better retail and tourist attractions to more upscale condo projects and housing developments.   What no longer works for today's Pattaya is being replaced with what does.  Retail churn is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when you often end up with something that is more suited to a town's changing demographics.

     

[newnative]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

That 'open market' style shopping center that preceded Terminal 21 was both ugly and a disaster.

 

I did the Google thing and "Again Pattaya" came up with some links to this company that among other interests, appears to have a condo nearby called Once Pattaya.

    They have built Once Pattaya condo on 3rd Road.  They have a new condo project called Once Wongamat that is slated to be built up the street from Again Pattaya, near the new Ankara Hotel.  Could be they are involved with Again Pattaya, a name I find about as strange as Once Pattaya.  Although, if you put them together you get Once Again Pattaya.  Hmm.  Still not winning me.  (And, yes, Pattaya has The Win, too.)

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, newnative said:

       I think you're seeing a lot of retail churn in Pattaya because two things are in play.  The city is growing tremendously and both the tourist and the resident demographic has also been changing a lot.   Much of the old retail was, and is, just not hacking it.  Much of it was, and still is, is just not up to what Pattaya's growth and changing demographics want.  You can look at the example I gave of Terminal 21, a new shopping center, with a new shopping center take, replacing an old, tired shopping center.   Both shopping centers, the old one was just not hacking it.  

      It's much the same thing with all the new, large, very nice hotels that have been built, and are still being built. They are catering both to a different tourist demographic and changing tourist tastes and interests.   The massive Centre Point 3 Resort, construction now getting started, I believe is being built on a large plot of land that had been an old, sleepy, rundown resort of tourist bungalows.  It was not what current visitors to Pattaya want to stay at when they come to visit.  Changing tastes and interests.

     I remember in late 2009 or 2010 coming to Pattaya for a day visit when my spouse and I lived outside of Rayong and had not yet moved to Pattaya.  At the time, our Rayong burbs Index was a small, unairconditioned, unattractive warehouse.  We stopped at Pattaya's Index and we were overwhelmed at how great it was compared to ours.  Two floors!  Beautiful displays!  Aircon!  So much more merchandise!  It was literally night and day.  Imagine my shock when, some years later, Pattaya's Index, which I thought was terrific, was torn down and an even bigger, nicer Index was built across the street.   

     You see examples all over town of the same thing.  From newer and better retail and tourist attractions to more upscale condo projects and housing developments.   What no longer works for today's Pattaya is being replaced with what does.  Retail churn is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when you often end up with something that is more suited to a town's changing demographics.

     

I see it as too high rent for the sales a business can generate, too much competition. For example beach road by 13/2, Pizza hut, Hooters, Starbucks should have all survived, bars in Buakhao get refurbished and last a year or two then close

[UbonEagle]

Couldn’t comment on touristy spots but the Mrs says this is the lowest point in 12yrs of operating a restaurant in large northern regional city which has next to nil tourism related trade.

And daily trip to market confirms this, absolutely dire.

of course it is wet season which always slows down trade, but people with money are just very reluctant to spend atm…a reflection of the shambolic political situation I’m sure.

as I board a near empty flight from Perth to bkk I can’t think the tourist areas are much better 💩

[newnative]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I see it as too high rent for the sales a business can generate, too much competition. For example beach road by 13/2, Pizza hut, Hooters, Starbucks should have all survived, bars in Buakhao get refurbished and last a year or two then close

     What you describe is normal and seen everywhere there is retail.  It's finding the right mix of supply and demand, with survival of the fittest thrown in, as well.  Not an exact science, and certainly competition and rent costs factor in.  If a Starbucks or Pizza Hut closes, perhaps there were one too many in that vicinity.  In the case of Starbucks, there's an outlet just down the street.  For customers wanting Starbucks, that might be enough.

    Pattaya has a Frost Magic Ice amusement park.  Haven't been but I guess cold, snow and ice might be the theme.  I can't predict if it will succeed but it likely has a better chance of doing ok here rather than Anchorage, Alaska.  Using that same logic, I never understood Hooters opening in Pattaya, although it lasted for awhile.