My Blood Pressure Numbers are always Normal - I'm Confused .

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Just because other people using the machine  get different reading is no indication that the calibration might not be off. It could be showing a lower reading for both you and them.  Best bet as I said in another reply is to have it checked against another machine. Easy enough to do and would give you peace of mind. I am sure your local clinic will do it for you free.  

How can he teel whether the one he is comparing his machine with is accurate? Many people on here say that machines in hospitals and clinics are not to be trusted, including our own resident doctor. (see above)

 

Omron is one of the best known home testers and are often used by professionals as well. I have the same model as the O/P and I would trust that rather than some of the dodgy machines I've seen around here.

[gargamon]

Get one of these and do it yourself. Takes a bit of intelligence to use it. Much more accurate.

 

[ignis]

I'm 74, been taking Blood Pressure Med's for over 30 years, for years mine were like yours a bit low,  2 years ago Dr took me off BP med's for 2 weeks went up to high 200/100+  so was put back on them again but a lower mg per day, now always around the same every day between 145 - 160 over  68 to 90. appears Dr thinks this is good...  My 90 day Hospital Visit was last Friday = at the Hospital + 2 different machines 158/67 + 160/74

 

  maybe will try different mg per day so take the 1/2 dosage  Prescribed 1 day and full tablet the other  ??  is what I have done for years with my Insulin  - use dosage according to Blood Sugar reading.

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

How can he teel whether the one he is comparing his machine with is accurate? Many people on here say that machines in hospitals and clinics are not to be trusted, including our own resident doctor. (see above)

 

Omron is one of the best known home testers and are often used by professionals as well. I have the same model as the O/P and I would trust that rather than some of the dodgy machines I've seen around here.

Simple, if they are both the same then , unless in the  very unlikely event of coincidence,  your machine is Ok, If they are  different , one or the other is not working properly, and I am willing to be it is yours since the ones in the hospital are better monitored than yours. .

   It is not the machines in your doctors office that can't be trusted it is the readings that can't be trusted because of "white coat syndrome" ( Have been running to get there, not allowed to sit for 5-10 minutes, reason you are there is you are not filling well,   etc)  But as long as the same conditions apply for both machines  the readings even if not correct , should be similar, . 

 

[The Fugitive]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Just because other people using the machine  get different reading is no indication that the calibration might not be off. It could be showing a lower reading for both you and them.  Best bet as I said in another reply is to have it checked against another machine. Easy enough to do and would give you peace of mind. I am sure your local clinic will do it for you free. 

Agree! My practice nurse (in UK) uses and highly recommends Omron machines. I purchased the basic Omron M2 in UK for 29.99 GBP (around 1,400 Thai Baht). Found it absolutely accurate. Maybe a good idea for anyone to buy another machine as a constant cross-check and backup?

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, The Fugitive said:

Agree! My practice nurse (in UK) uses and highly recommends Omron machines. I purchased the basic Omron M2 in UK for 29.99 GBP (around 1,400 Thai Baht). Found it absolutely accurate. Maybe a good idea for anyone to buy another machine as a constant cross-check and backup?

Omron are the best.

I was in the States, Christmas time, and got a very good deal on the Bluetooth one on Amazon. I love it, it automatically downloads every reading I take on the Omron app , so I have a record for every day and an average, my cardiologist here in Thailand was impressed by the detailed record. 

[Moonlover]

49 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Simple, if they are both the same then , unless in the  very unlikely event of coincidence,  your machine is Ok, If they are  different , one or the other is not working properly, and I am willing to be it is yours since the ones in the hospital are better monitored than yours. .

   It is not the machines in your doctors office that can't be trusted it is the readings that can't be trusted because of "white coat syndrome" ( Have been running to get there, not allowed to sit for 5-10 minutes, reason you are there is you are not filling well,   etc)  But as long as the same conditions apply for both machines  the readings even if not correct , should be similar, . 

 

 

I notice from an earlier post that you too use and trust Omron monitors, so I wonder why you are displaying any doubt about them. 

 

Well I trust mine too so I can see no reason why I need to go and make comparisons with other machines. These modern machine tend to be 'fail safe' anyway. They either work or give you an error message to ponder.

 

I think many people have become too hung up on these metrics to the degree that here we have a poster panicking because his readings are 'normal!' Whatever next?

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I notice from an earlier post that you too use and trust Omron monitors, so I wonder why you are displaying any doubt about them. 

I am glad you are so trusting of technology, but i subscribe to the maxim " Trust but verify"

Omron is IMO better than other but  it does not stop from being a machine and as such susceptible to  calibration issues that might give a lower or higher reading , either can be a problem .

A lower reading would give you false security, and a higher reading induce medication intervention,

both situation IMO not optimal. 

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I am glad you are so trusting of technology, but i subscribe to the maxim " Trust but verify"

Omron is IMO better than other but  it does not stop from being a machine and as such susceptible to  calibration issues that might give a lower or higher reading , either can be a problem .

A lower reading would give you false security, and a higher reading induce medication intervention,

both situation IMO not optimal. 

 

 

As I pointed out in a post yesterday. those that worry are very often those that end up with hypertension and as a result end up being conned into taking these ghastly meds.

 

I don't fall into that category at all, in fact the very opposite.

[swissie]

On 7/21/2024 at 8:58 AM, Moonlover said:

 

As I pointed out in a post yesterday. those that worry are very often those that end up with hypertension and as a result end up being conned into taking these ghastly meds.

 

I don't fall into that category at all, in fact the very opposite.

All fine and good. Back to the fundamentals. What exactly causes high blood pressure? What causes low blood pressure?

 

To be more specific: In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?

             "                     In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?

 

Until that is clarified, all discussions are purely academical. No, I don't "Google" for answers.

[swissie]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:43 PM, georgegeorgia said:

Blood pressure checks are rubbish 

Mine is around 140/90

The doctor once put me in amlodipine , took for a week .made me tired 

Went to another doctor,he said you take testereone that's why it's up 

Stay off the BP medicine he said 

 

140/150 etc is normal according to him ,if you have no side effects from higher BP then don't take the amlodipine 

Over the years I was "switched" 3 times concerning BP medications. They all have 1 thing in common: They all make me tired, weak and listless. A high price to pay, I find.

[Moonlover]

12 hours ago, swissie said:

On 7/20/2024 at 12:43 AM, georgegeorgia said:

Blood pressure checks are rubbish 

Mine is around 140/90

The doctor once put me in amlodipine , took for a week .made me tired 

Went to another doctor,he said you take testereone that's why it's up 

Stay off the BP medicine he said 

 

140/150 etc is normal according to him ,if you have no side effects from higher BP then don't take the amlodipine 

 

12 hours ago, swissie said:

Over the years I was "switched" 3 times concerning BP medications. They all have 1 thing in common: They all make me tired, weak and listless. A high price to pay, I find.

I have never fallen into this 'med trap', as I call it. In fact I've never even consulted a doctor regarding BP. If I notice an increase I look to my exercise routine, meditation and breathwork to get back down again.

 

Breathwork is particularly effective. here is a useful website on that topic.

 

Breathing techniques that lower blood-pressure

[BigStar]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:43 AM, georgegeorgia said:

Blood pressure checks are rubbish 

Mine is around 140/90

 

Good. Stop doing any BP checks, stay away from any meds.

[Seppius]

"Evidence shows that increasing potassium intake significantly reduces blood pressure in adults. Potassium is found in a variety of unrefined foods, including beans and peas, nuts, vegetables such as spinach, cabbage and parsley and fruits such as bananas, papayas and dates."

 

It's from WHO, so maybe dodgy🤣

 

https://www.who.int/tools/elena/interventions/potassium-cvd-adults

[georgegeorgia]

14 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

I have never fallen into this 'med trap', as I call it. In fact I've never even consulted a doctor regarding BP. If I notice an increase I look to my exercise routine, meditation and breathwork to get back down again.

 

Breathwork is particularly effective. here is a useful website on that topic.

 

Breathing techniques that lower blood-pressure

Yes , alternative medicine is better 

[swissie]

On 7/24/2024 at 4:13 PM, swissie said:

All fine and good. Back to the fundamentals. What exactly causes high blood pressure? What causes low blood pressure?

 

To be more specific: In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?

             "                     In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?

 

Until that is clarified, all discussions are purely academical. No, I don't "Google" for answers.

As expected: The question I have adressed above:

"In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?
" In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"? has remained unanswered.

As well as: High performance athletes spend a good part of their life in a "high BP" reality (training and performance). How come they are still alive? 

[khlongtoey]

well, tbh kind of a dumb question. too many factors involved, focusing on 1 number is short-sighted.

 

example, are you on any BP meds? what other meds are you on ? do you take the BP at the exact same time daily, what time is that, are you sitting in a chair, and have rested 5 minutes? on and on.   I think you may need to edit the post also, think you duplicated the paragraphs,  :P      

 

if you want to gauge your risks, try something like a 10 year heart attack calculator and maybe post your lipids and sugar levels

[swissie]

1 hour ago, khlongtoey said:

well, tbh kind of a dumb question. too many factors involved, focusing on 1 number is short-sighted.

 

example, are you on any BP meds? what other meds are you on ? do you take the BP at the exact same time daily, what time is that, are you sitting in a chair, and have rested 5 minutes? on and on.   I think you may need to edit the post also, think you duplicated the paragraphs,  😛

 

if you want to gauge your risks, try something like a 10 year heart attack calculator and maybe post your lipids and sugar levels

Now elevating a few very basic questions into academical spheres.

I remain:
 "In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?
" In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"? has remained unanswered.

As well as: High performance athletes spend a good part of their life in a "high BP" reality (training and performance). How come they are still alive?  

Why is this simple questionaire so hard to answer?

[Lorry]

44 minutes ago, swissie said:

Now elevating a few very basic questions into academical spheres.

I remain:
 "In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?
" In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"? has remained unanswered.

As well as: High performance athletes spend a good part of their life in a "high BP" reality (training and performance). How come they are still alive?  

Why is this simple questionaire so hard to answer?

Human arteries are very flexible,  elastic. The heart doesn't need a lot of pressure to pump blood through them. BP is normally low.

 

If you are under stress, eg running away from a lion or lying to the police about the corpse they just found under your bed, your BP will rise  a lot. Because muscles and brain will need more blood than at rest, your heart will pump faster and more forcefully.

After stress (the lion ate someone else,  the police found another suspect), BP will go down.

 

But if there is chronic stress (unlike the lion, police come back, for years, no end in sight) you and your BP won't relax. You will eat some chocolate to relax,  full of fat, sugar and other toxins that harden your arteries - which are under stress from the permanently high BP already.  After 20 or 30 years,  your arteries have become hard and inflexible, calcified and narrow. Your heart  always has to pump forcefully,  you always have high BP, it will get tired and give up (meaning you die). The arteries get clogged more and more,  if those in the brain get completely obstructed, that's a stroke. If those arteries that provide oxygen to the heart muscle itself are obstructed,  that's a heart attack.

 

Athletes only run away from lions, no permanent stress, they, their heart and their arteries,  always relax again. And they don't live on chocolate and pizza clogging the arteries.

Their BP at rest is low. Nothing wrong with low BP.

 

(don't show this to a medical professional and make me lose face.  I have written this especially for you.  It's a very simplified version of what could  be a tome of 500 pages)

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Now elevating a few very basic questions into academical spheres.

I remain:
 "In case of high blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"?
" In case of low blood pressure, what does that tell us, or in other words, "what is wrong with our bodies"? has remained unanswered.

As well as: High performance athletes spend a good part of their life in a "high BP" reality (training and performance). How come they are still alive?  

Why is this simple questionaire so hard to answer?

 

These are not simple questions to answer, especially if the person asking does not have a grasp of  basic physiology and pathology.

 

I already answered the last question several posts back.

 

High blood pressure can be secondary to a range of other medical conditions, or (most often) it can  be what is called primary or essential hypertension. It results from increased resistance/stiffness in the arteries.  Genetic pre-disposition is a common factor. Diet and lifestyle can be risk factors as well.  See  https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22024-primary-hypertension-formerly-known-as-essential-hypertension

 

If by low blood pressure you mean blood pressures at the lower end of normal, or even slightly under, all it tells you is that this person does not have hypertension.

 

Genuine hypotension -- blood pressure well below normal range -- has a wide range of causes. The most common causes would be hemorraghic blood loss and dehydration, but there are many others as well.

 

 

 

 

[georgegeorgia]

My blood pressure is 152/90 and I feel fit as a fiddle 🏃🏃

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, georgegeorgia said:

My blood pressure is 152/90 and I feel fit as a fiddle 🏃🏃

How you feel is irrelevant. Blood pressure is a silent indicator and does not affect how you feel.

[sirineou]

Quote

 My Blood Pressure Numbers are always Normal - I'm Confused .

These things are not mutually exclusive.

Many people have normal  BP numbers and are also confused. 

[Lorry]

Patients with some experience of higher and lower blood pressure may be able to feel the difference, but it's not a reliable indicator, and completely indolent macho types ("I am never sick") may not be able to feel anything. 

 

Example: patient used to have BP 155/88, over months lowered to 130/80.

Main effect: much easier to sleep, sleeps 8 hours instead of 5.

Easier to relax,  doesn't feel that driven. 

Any pressure between 120-140, feels nothing. 

Over 140, feels driven more than the situation warrants, cannot rest.

Under 120, eazily dizzy. Under 110, dizzy.

The patient may get used to lower pressures, so that he doesn't feel dizzy at 115 any more. And he may feel very uncomfortable at 155 (which formerly he didn't feel at all).

 

Some A-types may feel very uncomfortable if they relax. They and there body have never done this for decades. 

[swissie]

On 7/28/2024 at 8:35 PM, Lorry said:

Human arteries are very flexible,  elastic. The heart doesn't need a lot of pressure to pump blood through them. BP is normally low.

 

If you are under stress, eg running away from a lion or lying to the police about the corpse they just found under your bed, your BP will rise  a lot. Because muscles and brain will need more blood than at rest, your heart will pump faster and more forcefully.

After stress (the lion ate someone else,  the police found another suspect), BP will go down.

 

But if there is chronic stress (unlike the lion, police come back, for years, no end in sight) you and your BP won't relax. You will eat some chocolate to relax,  full of fat, sugar and other toxins that harden your arteries - which are under stress from the permanently high BP already.  After 20 or 30 years,  your arteries have become hard and inflexible, calcified and narrow. Your heart  always has to pump forcefully,  you always have high BP, it will get tired and give up (meaning you die). The arteries get clogged more and more,  if those in the brain get completely obstructed, that's a stroke. If those arteries that provide oxygen to the heart muscle itself are obstructed,  that's a heart attack.

 

Athletes only run away from lions, no permanent stress, they, their heart and their arteries,  always relax again. And they don't live on chocolate and pizza clogging the arteries.

Their BP at rest is low. Nothing wrong with low BP.

 

(don't show this to a medical professional and make me lose face.  I have written this especially for you.  It's a very simplified version of what could  be a tome of 500 pages)

 

 

 

 

Well explained, in understandable plain English. Thx!

[swissie]

On 7/28/2024 at 8:40 PM, Sheryl said:

 

These are not simple questions to answer, especially if the person asking does not have a grasp of  basic physiology and pathology.

 

I already answered the last question several posts back.

 

High blood pressure can be secondary to a range of other medical conditions, or (most often) it can  be what is called primary or essential hypertension. It results from increased resistance/stiffness in the arteries.  Genetic pre-disposition is a common factor. Diet and lifestyle can be risk factors as well.  See  https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22024-primary-hypertension-formerly-known-as-essential-hypertension

 

If by low blood pressure you mean blood pressures at the lower end of normal, or even slightly under, all it tells you is that this person does not have hypertension.

 

Genuine hypotension -- blood pressure well below normal range -- has a wide range of causes. The most common causes would be hemorraghic blood loss and dehydration, but there are many others as well.

 

 

 

 

Got it.Thx!

[georgegeorgia]

On 7/29/2024 at 2:37 PM, Lorry said:

Patients with some experience of higher and lower blood pressure may be able to feel the difference, but it's not a reliable indicator, and completely indolent macho types ("I am never sick") may not be able to feel anything. 

 

Example: patient used to have BP 155/88, over months lowered to 130/80.

Main effect: much easier to sleep, sleeps 8 hours instead of 5.

Easier to relax,  doesn't feel that driven. 

Any pressure between 120-140, feels nothing. 

Over 140, feels driven more than the situation warrants, cannot rest.

Under 120, eazily dizzy. Under 110, dizzy.

The patient may get used to lower pressures, so that he doesn't feel dizzy at 115 any more. And he may feel very uncomfortable at 155 (which formerly he didn't feel at all).

 

Some A-types may feel very uncomfortable if they relax. They and there body have never done this for decades. 

Love this post and you hit the nail on the head 

I'm around 150 with no side effects and feel energy

I tried BP medicine, Amlodipine etc made me tired 

Testereone injection 💉 makes my BP higher than normal 

I'm happy at 150

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I'm happy at 150

But your heart and arteries are not.

Before trying amlodipine (starting with a low dose) 2 life style modifications should be tried:

 

Exercise. Go to a gym, 3 times a week for an hour, get really exhausted. 

The other days, move: swim, walk, dance. Elevators and escalators are poison.

Doing this for 3-6 months,  you will be surprised that your heart rate has gone down (a sign of increased fitness), blood pressure has gone down  (but probably not so much as your heart rate) and you feel more energetic. 

 

Diet. The less you eat,  the lower your blood pressure.  Fasting lowers the blood pressure very quickly,  but, of course,  this is not a solution.  You have to find a middle way.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

But your heart and arteries are not.

Before trying amlodipine (starting with a low dose) 2 life style modifications should be tried:

 

Exercise. Go to a gym, 3 times a week for an hour, get really exhausted. 

The other days, move: swim, walk, dance. Elevators and escalators are poison.

Doing this for 3-6 months,  you will be surprised that your heart rate has gone down (a sign of increased fitness), blood pressure has gone down  (but probably not so much as your heart rate) and you feel more energetic. 

 

Diet. The less you eat,  the lower your blood pressure.  Fasting lowers the blood pressure very quickly,  but, of course,  this is not a solution.  You have to find a middle way.

Well written, as before. I made copies of your writings and took them to an "old folks home" for further discussion/exmination.

It caused a great turmoil. Most old residents claimed that they have done a lot of exercise (hard physical labor=equivilant of sports on a daily basis over the last 40 years). And still most suffer of "old age syndroms" including high BP.

Upon my departure, the manageresse told me that folks that have had a lot of exercise in form of hard labor over the last 40 years do not want to be told to be more physically active to lower their BP in old age. More: She said that residents having spent their last 40 years behind a desk are not any worse off than folks that have "exerciseed" in form of daily physical labor (sports) over the last 40 years.

Conclusion: It's in your Genes, the rest is modern day hocus-pokus.

 

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, swissie said:

It's in your Genes, the rest is modern day hocus-pokus.

The "genes" are a lame excuse for doing nothing. Or taking pills, good for the pharmaceutical industry. 

 

Hard physical work is not always the same as healthy exercise (which is bringing your heart rate up a lot, but has time of rest, too).

But the main problem for Westerners doing physical work in the last 50 years or so is the terrible diet,  beer and sausages come to mind. And overeating.

 

Easy to see that many of them are fat - even they always worked hard.

Fat tissue has only a few narrow arteries,  the heart has to press the blood through there very forcefully, so fat tissue helps to get high blood pressure.

 

Most Westerners forgot completely how a healthy (not fat) human does look like (look at Obama).

 

People hate changing their diet, it's up to them.  Like a smoker is free to cut 10 or 20 years from his life. 

People find all kinds of excuses not to change anything - genes are the best one.

 

If you want to read up on nutrition google "mediterranean diet", "Japanese food", "ultraprocessed food" and follow the poster @BigStar. All this is not the Gospel,  but  a good start.

 

There are many other reasons for high blood pressure (a modern one is PM 2.5 - unfortunately it's not hocus pocus), and maybe Obama has high blood pressure (I don't know),  but these are the most important ones, and the ones I myself can change. 

I don't give a $hit about my genes, I cannot change them anyway. 

I am interested in the things I can do.