Foreigner friend - Broken leg - No insurance - 400k+ medical bills - What next?

[ronwel]

Hi there,

 

I am writing in response to a friend of mine, he is foreigner working in Thailand, mid 30's (has been here over 10 years)

He was recently in a motorcycle accident where his leg was broken, he for some reason went to a private hospital where he received some treatment tallying upwards of 400k baht.

He has no health insurance and no funds to pay the bill Infront of him. I recommended that he move hospital, but I'm unsure if they will let him leave without paying his bill.

It's worth mentioning that the embassy is not of help and his family are also not in a position to pay the funds.

 

He says his knee is in critical condition and he needs to have surgery before it gets infected or he might loose his leg.

Is a hospital is going to let a patient paid or not get an infection and not treat it?

 

Regardless, what happens here? Do they keep him there until his bill is paid? Would they discharge him in his state?

What is the protocol here for situations where a foreign person is in a private hospital, unable to pay their bill?

 

As for answers regarding why he didn't have insurance, trust me I have been verbal on the matter. 

 

I'm interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar situation or know of someone who has had a similar situation.

 

Regards 

 

Edited July 21 by ronwel

[BritManToo]

Police report will allow him to claim 30kbht back from his government minimum m/c insurance.

 

He should have gone to a government hospital where his m/c insurance would have covered his entire bill.

[mokwit]

I had an experience in a Govt hospital where the bill was more than I had in the account with a card they would accept. The cashier took my passport and sent me to "Social Services". Here they asked about my address and arranged for me to pay in installments after signing documents that the hospital claim was senior to any other claim in my will eytc. I had paid 100k of a 140k bill with the card and with the paperwork I went back to cashier and got my passport back and left the hospital.

 

In my case it was just one installment as the money was no problem, I just had to transfer funds into Thailand and when i told them that they asked if pay all next month was OK and I confirmed it was.

[scubascuba3]

Make it clear he can't pay, transfer to govt hospital but also agree monthly payment terms with private hospital. I wouldn't bail him out, he knew the risks

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, ronwel said:

a friend of mine, he is foreigner working in Thailand

If he is legally employed in Thailand, then he has the same health coverage as employed Thai people.

If he chooses to go to a private hospital and (pretend to) pay himself, then that is entirely his self-made problem. 

Edited July 21 by OneMoreFarang

[mokwit]

27 minutes ago, ronwel said:

Hi there,

 

I am writing in response to a friend of mine, he is foreigner working in Thailand, mid 30's (has been here over 10 years)

He was recently in a motorcycle accident where his leg was broken, he for some reason went to a private hospital where he received some treatment tallying upwards of 400k baht.

He has no health insurance and no funds to pay the bill Infront of him. I recommended that he move hospital, but I'm unsure if they will let him leave without paying his bill.

It's worth mentioning that the embassy is not of help and his family are also not in a position to pay the funds.

 

He says his knee is in critical condition and he needs to have surgery before it gets infected or he might loose his leg.

Is a hospital is going to let a patient paid or not get an infection and not treat it?

 

Regardless, what happens here? Do they keep him there until his bill is paid? Would they discharge him in his state?

What is the protocol here for situations where a foreign person is in a private hospital, unable to pay their bill?

 

As for answers regarding why he didn't have insurance, trust me I have been verbal on the matter. 

 

I'm interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar situation or know of someone who has had a similar situation.

 

Regards 

 

Sounds like a case for a "gofundme".

[ronwel]

As its a private hospital, is it a private matter between him and the hospital only. Are there guidelines for what to do in a situation like this say in a government hospital.

 

I can only imagine that this happens fairly often, is it just case by case or is there a formality to what he has to do next?

 

Thank you for your comments.

I am fully aware that people will be unwilling to help and that's fine. I thought I would see what's possible.

Edited July 21 by ronwel

[Ralf001]

Yeah prolly shoulda gone to the hospital he nominated for his SS cover.

 

Going to private with no insurance is 100% on him, tell him to ask hospital if they will agree to a payment plan.

 

If they wont do that, what assets does he have that could be sold to raise some coin.

Edited July 21 by Ralf001

[ronwel]

10 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Yeah prolly shoulda gone to the hospital he nominated for his SS cover.

 

Going to private with no insurance is 100% on him, tell him to ask hospital if they will agree to a payment plan.

 

If they wont do that, what assets does he have that could be sold to raise some coin.

 

Assets, not much, maybe the motorcycle that was involved in the accident. 

[dddave]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

He should have gone to a government hospital where his m/c insurance would have covered his entire bill.

Ambulance services get paid bounties by private hospitals for accident victims though less so for uninsured ones.  I suspect the victim didn't have much choice in the matter.

You could be lying injured in the street in front of a Govt Hosp. and these "Volunteer" ambulance vultures will take you 20 km to the highest bidder.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, dddave said:

Ambulance services get paid bounties by private hospitals for accident victims though less so for uninsured ones.  I suspect the victim didn't have much choice in the matter.

You could be lying injured in the street in front of a Govt Hosp. and these "Volunteer" ambulance vultures will take you 20 km to the highest bidder.

When I was a victim of a hit and run driver last October, the ambulance took me straight to my local government hospital.

6 broken ribs, broken collar bone, collapsed lung, many 'crush' injuries, total cost 13kbht over 4 months (including 1 month of physio), covered by my gov min m/c insurance.

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, dddave said:

I once knew someone in a similar situation.  The hospital will hold him as long as they can providing minimal treatment and only providing the cheapest meds. 

 

Yep they will hold you.

 

I was in an induced coma last year at BPH when my private health insurance decided they would not cover.

 

Bill had to be paid before they would release me to another hospital.

[jaideedave]

23 minutes ago, ronwel said:

As its a private hospital, is it a private matter between him and the hospital only. Are there guidelines for what to do in a situation like this say in a government hospital.

 

I can only imagine that this happens fairly often, is it just case by case or is there a formality to what he has to do next?

 

Thank you for your comments.

I am fully aware that people will be unwilling to help and that's fine. I thought I would see what's possible.

If I were to give this fellow some advice>don't try to avoid paying.Prove to them you have legal employment and tell them you can create a payment plan. If they think you're going to do a runner then they'll keep your passport.I don't know how your going to get the operation though.No hospital will admit you without either a deposit or proof of insurance. If your employment is legit you should have gov.t insurance. Why did you even go to a private hospital ?...jesus.

[dddave]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

When I was a victim of a hit and run driver last October, the ambulance took me straight to my local government hospital.

6 broken ribs, broken collar bone, collapsed lung, many 'crush' injuries, total cost 13kbht over 4 months (including 1 month of physio), covered by my gov min m/c insurance.

Though a terrible situation, you were fortunate to have received such treatment.  My friend hit 2 years ago by a car was taken to a crummy hospital and the substandard treatment he received contributed to his death.

[ElwoodP]

Note to forum trolls

This is the Health and Medicine forum.

Start your nonsense here, and you will be removed with your posts.

[jaideedave]

5 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Surprises me that he's worked here for 10 years but still cant afford 400K? 🤔

Maybe he's an English teacher @30k/month. He probably won't have much of a savings/investment portfolio at that rate.

[mokwit]

14 minutes ago, jaideedave said:

No hospital will admit you without either a deposit or proof of insurance.

Regular admissions, absolutely, but i was admitted in an emergency at a Govt hospital without either. They did ask me how I would pay, and I told them the issue was not paying the bill per se, I was sure I could cover that, it was a matter of how much i could pay with the card I had on me - I mentioned 100k and told them if they accepted Amex I had a limit that would almost certainly cover the cost.

Edited July 21 by mokwit

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, jaideedave said:

No hospital will admit you without either a deposit or proof of insurance.

As far as I know,

All Thai hospitals are required by law to treat life threatening injuries.

Which has certainly been my experience in the past.

At some point they will ask for payment, usually after a few days in hospital or when you want to leave.

[HampiK]

This another thread how important it is to have health cover. Especially when you are not rich. I hear from too many people that a health insurance is a scam (of course they want make money, and hopefully you never will need it even you paid a lot to the company).

 

What he should do now? He should talk with the hospital he stays in right now and ask about how to pay the bills maybe in installments.
instead of asking question here, I think it would be much better to talk to his hospital as soon as possible.

[dddave]

There were 2 cases this past year covered extensively by the local news where a hospital refused to treat an injured person.  In one case, a Taiwanese was hit by a car 100 yards from a private hospital with an emergency ward and they refused to treat him.  By the time he was taken to another hospital, he died.  There was an investigation, fines were paid, wai's and flowers all around with promises to be good in the future.  The 2nd case was almost identical though the person didn't die.  Same outcome.

[NativeBob]

400K is about $11K

The only asset he has is motocye.

He is working in Thailand and stays here for 10 years but doesn't have an insurance

Yet after accident he went to private hospital

 

And seems that he wants to get away. 

Ok, heard those stories from friend (working at Piyavate Hospital Bangkok) every time I meet him. About few times a week. 

Edited July 21 by NativeBob

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Make it clear he can't pay, transfer to govt hospital but also agree monthly payment terms with private hospital. I wouldn't bail him out, he knew the risks

Beat me to it. Been in LOS 10 years should know the score. It's one thing for a tourist to be stupid and not have insurance, but he has no excuse.

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, dddave said:

You could be lying injured in the street in front of a Govt Hosp. and these "Volunteer" ambulance vultures will take you 20 km to the highest bidder.

Insured foreigner collapsed at Landmark Hotel: ambulance brought him to Samitivej. Not Bumrungrad. Guess why.

BTW the opposite happens, too: rich, fully insured foreigner almost died at Soi 3 (hit by a car). Ambulance brought him to the Police Hospital because that's where they bring RTAs.  His insurance then had him transferred to Bumrungrad.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

When I was a victim of a hit and run driver last October, the ambulance took me straight to my local government hospital.

6 broken ribs, broken collar bone, collapsed lung, many 'crush' injuries, total cost 13kbht over 4 months (including 1 month of physio), covered by my gov min m/c insurance.

I wasn't given the option of a government hospital- delivered to a private hospital in Lamphun. I was in no position to argue about it.

[Lorry]

40 minutes ago, HampiK said:

 

What he should do now? He should talk with the hospital he stays in right now and ask about how to pay the bills maybe in installments.

Correct.

And don't forget to bargain down the bill.

He should get the resident's rate (some private hospitals charge tourists more than residents), and should even try to get the local rate for Thais (he has WP? Yellow book? Pink card? Is married? May be helpful). 

It's a bazaar, and you should behave accordingly. Of course,  you cannot bargain with a cashier.  Someone further up. Sometimes it works,  but rarely.

 

He should also get out of there asap, otherwise the bill will just rise.

 

Having said all this,  400,000??? For heavens sake. What does he work here,  cleaning the streets (but that's probably a protected profession)???

Edited July 21 by Lorry

[The Fugitive]

49 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Regular admissions, absolutely, but i was admitted in an emergency at a Govt hospital without either. They did ask me how I would pay, and I told them the issue was not paying the bill per se, I was sure I could cover that, it was a matter of how much i could pay with the card I had on me - I mentioned 100k and told them if they accepted Amex I had a limit that would almost certainly cover the cost.

When I was admitted to the A/E dept of my Regional Government Hospital the first thing they asked for was my passport. I assumed it was to create a medical record (rather than hold me to ransome) and I was proved correct. They handed it back to me very shortly afterwards.

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

When I was admitted to the A/E dept of my Regional Government Hospital the first thing they asked for was my passport. I assumed it was to create a medical record (rather than hold me to ransome) and I was proved correct. They handed it back to me very shortly afterwards.

I had been asked for my passport previously - I had to register before they would see me and someone came to the ward prior to surgery and asked to see it. I had my passport, it was when I went to pay that they asked to hold it while I went to another room to see "Social Services".

Edited July 21 by mokwit

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Police report will allow him to claim 30kbht back from his government minimum m/c insurance.

 

He should have gone to a government hospital where his m/c insurance would have covered his entire bill.

 

Good Point.

Here in CM, there are good government hospitals, I think, which are also somehow affiliated with the university, and quite adequate.

 

It's only the long wait times that one must endure that make things a bit difficult.

 

[ElwoodP]

More unhelpful posts removed.

This is not the community pub, and 'chat' will be removed.

[NativeBob]

To negotiate with "the hospital" is a joke, bad advice. Exactly who is in charge of accounting and who makes decisions on post-payments or credits? Who will sign up for you? Nobody wants to take responsibilities and possible headache.

Still, it is only $11K and he is working in Thailand. 

Or there's something missing?

 

PS: Sad story, and sorry for unfortunate guy