Shocking slump: Thailand’s premium EV sales plunge 35%

[In the jungle]

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

@Bandersnatch just posted this on the Electric Vehicles In Thailand Thread, it's worth watching as it tells you what is really happening, and more importantly, what the future is.

 

 

 

Poor old Sam is now the definition of a White Monkey.

[transam]

12 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I'm not sure I understand you, could you repeat it in English?

 

The same problem on my car affected the ICE cars from the same manufacturer.  The OEM who provided the pressure sensors for the aircon on all their cars sent them a bad batch.

 

I wasn't happy, that is true, but I present it as it is, not selectively as you suggested.

 

 

I am including all RY1 category of EV's and RY1 category of ICE, apples to apples. The figures came from @ExpatOilWorker, they are in the same format we have been using for many months.  i think it may be autolife or DLT who provide them, I'm sure he can elucidate.

 

 

Probably under 1%, There are 2.5 billion cars on the road worldwide. 

 

Currently more than 1 in 8 new car sales is EV in Thailand.

An ICE with A/C failure does not go to an A/C repair shop on a low-loader..........🤭

 

You are making excuses for the EV sales slump..🤭

[JBChiangRai]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

An ICE with A/C failure does not go to an A/C repair shop on a low-loader..........🤭

 

You are making excuses for the EV sales slump..🤭

 

There is no EV sales slump, there is an all types of car slump.  EV's are growing relatively, taking a larger market share every month.  

• February 7.4% of new cars were EV's
• March 10.6%
• April 10.8%
• May 12.1%
• June 13.4% of new cars were EV's.  You know this Transam. 

 

The reason my EV went to BKK on a low loader was because there is only one authorised dealer in Thailand and my car was under warranty.

 

If it was one of their ICE cars, it would have gone to BKK on a low loader too.  The pressure sensor problem is well documented and eventually became part of recall after it failed in both ICE & EV's worldwide.

[ExpatOilWorker]

If you are not ready for an electric car 🚗 yet, you can always start out with an electric scooter from China, then Darwin will make the final decision for you.

 

Edited July 25 by ExpatOilWorker

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

A few countries have tried Hydrogen and consumers didn't like it in any of them.  The main issue is cost.  Hydrogen costs about 4 times more than charging an EV and that's an unsolvable major issue without subsidies.  Storage in the car is also a major issue, the tanks take up vast amounts of space and in the Toyota Mirai the rear seats are only suitable for children. 

Hydrogen definitely is the way to go. Just imagine the quality of fires 🔥 we would have.

[bkk6060]

This is from CNBC today.

Now, it will not include the thousands who want to save face and not admit what a huge mistake and waste they are.  Well over 50% would be my guess.  And the depreciation of these vehicles is huge over a short period of time.

...

Nearly 30% of electric vehicle owners globally are likely to switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles, according to a recent survey of consumers around the world conducted by McKinsey.

 

Many U.S. EV owners, in particular, are having second thoughts. According to the McKinsey survey, 46% of U.S. EV owners claimed they were likely to switch back to ICEs, well above the 29% global average of EV owners who stated they were likely or very likely to switch back to gas-powered cars, which included drivers from Australia, Brazil, China, Germany, Norway, France, Italy, and South Korea.

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

This is from CNBC today.

Now, it will not include the thousands who want to save face and not admit what a huge mistake and waste they are.  Well over 50% would be my guess.  And the depreciation of these vehicles is huge over a short period of time.

...

Nearly 30% of electric vehicle owners globally are likely to switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles, according to a recent survey of consumers around the world conducted by McKinsey.

 

Many U.S. EV owners, in particular, are having second thoughts. According to the McKinsey survey, 46% of U.S. EV owners claimed they were likely to switch back to ICEs, well above the 29% global average of EV owners who stated they were likely or very likely to switch back to gas-powered cars, which included drivers from Australia, Brazil, China, Germany, Norway, France, Italy, and South Korea.

 

I don't believe it.  Thailand's experience is completely the opposite.

 

I read about this in the BYD Seal Australia group and they were saying it's obviously fake.

[JBChiangRai]

I think the McKinsey study is flawed and I'm not the only one.  There is something very wrong about how they conducted it.

 

Teslarati had this to say.

 

It was then unsurprising that the findings of McKinsey’s study have been received with skepticism by electric vehicle advocates. 

In social media platforms such as X, avid EV fans have noted that the survey’s findings are quite interesting because they do not reflect their everyday EV ownership experience. One of the most notable points surrounding EVs, after all, is the idea that drivers who experience electric vehicles typically don’t go back to combustion-powered cars. This was the whole idea behind the Tesla community’s “butts in seats” efforts in the past. 

It was not just members of the electric vehicle community that were surprised by the results of the survey. In a comment to Automotive News, Philipp Kampshoff, leader of McKinsey’s Center for Future Mobility, noted that he did not expect such a large number of respondents to state that they would likely shift back to a combustion-powered car. “I didn’t expect that. I thought, ‘Once an EV buyer, always an EV buyer,'” he told the publication. 

Other notable findings from McKinsey’s survey suggest that car buyers are quite interested in electric vehicles, with 38% of respondents globally who are currently not driving an EV stating that they would consider a battery electric vehicle or a plug-in hybrid as their next vehicle. A respectable 59% of EV buyers would also like to use more digital connectivity services in the future. 

[motdaeng]

40 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

This is from CNBC today.

Now, it will not include the thousands who want to save face and not admit what a huge mistake and waste they are.  Well over 50% would be my guess.  And the depreciation of these vehicles is huge over a short period of time.

...

Nearly 30% of electric vehicle owners globally are likely to switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles, according to a recent survey of consumers around the world conducted by McKinsey.

 

Many U.S. EV owners, in particular, are having second thoughts. According to the McKinsey survey, 46% of U.S. EV owners claimed they were likely to switch back to ICEs, well above the 29% global average of EV owners who stated they were likely or very likely to switch back to gas-powered cars, which included drivers from Australia, Brazil, China, Germany, Norway, France, Italy, and South Korea.

 

i asked chatgpt about McKinsey: 

"McKinsey is generally a credible source, but it's always wise to critically evaluate its reports and consider them alongside other sources to get a balanced view."

 

but let's allow the customer and the future to decide. it will be interesting to see where we stand in 10 years ...

 

 

[lapamita]

On 7/23/2024 at 10:03 AM, vinny41 said:

Byd atto3 owner recently posted on the facebook groups that his car value has dropped B650,000 iin 2 years  

we just bought a new car. We was at the chinese companys too. The most intresting car  was BYD attos, very stylish and the price sure 35% lower than a CRV. and more modern design.

as i even sceptical , the car was smelling like a cheamical lab ( i have friend have one ,even after a year smelling)  was the biggest point notto buy  ,,even complained to the seller this as a no go , and the plastic parts all feel like they 2mm thinner than in other cars , meaning low quality.

a nice car ...............

but at the end we bought a new Honda hrv , wahts sure less inovative and less standards , but its relaiable  ,  compare to byd ist expensive but i  know what i get. (our old honda still in our hands 11 years no repairs!! ex. tires ,brakes,oil)

 

att: i have friends now with older chinese car like mg  4-5 years old they all compaining about heavy prices of spareparts-i think there is where the money comes  and second with 100 k km one car fells like 500k on a tioyota when drive)

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, lapamita said:

we just bought a new car. We was at the chinese companys too. The most intresting car  was BYD attos, very stylish and the price sure 35% lower than a CRV. and more modern design.

as i even sceptical , the car was smelling like a cheamical lab ( i have friend have one ,even after a year smelling)  was the biggest point notto buy  ,,even complained to the seller this as a no go , and the plastic parts all feel like they 2mm thinner than in other cars , meaning low quality.

a nice car ...............

but at the end we bought a new Honda hrv , wahts sure less inovative and less standards , but its relaiable  ,  compare to byd ist expensive but i  know what i get. (our old honda still in our hands 11 years no repairs!! ex. tires ,brakes,oil)

 

att: i have friends now with older chinese car like mg  4-5 years old they all compaining about heavy prices of spareparts-i think there is where the money comes  and second with 100 k km one car fells like 500k on a tioyota when drive)

 

But he hasn't ever owned a BYD!

 

One unnamed anti-EV guy's uninformed opinion.

 

Stop the bus! I want to get off!

[vinny41]

BYD customers appeal to the Consumers' Foundation to return their cars and receive compensation for the price difference

On July 25, 2024, Mr. Thanat Thamisakun, Director of the Consumer Protection Center, Foundation for Consumers and Head of the Bangkok Provincial Office of the Consumer Council, revealed that a group of BYD car users had filed a complaint with the foundation for assistance..

The head of the Consumer Protection Center of the Consumer Council revealed that the council will collect the damages of the complainants and will coordinate with the car sales company to provide compensation to the victims. Today, the demands of the complainants have been mutually agreed upon and the following proposals have been made:

1. Let the company buy back the said car model.

2. Compensate the difference as car buyers should receive, namely the ATTO 3 model at a price of 400,000 baht and the Dolphin model at a price of 220,000 baht...

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1616079

I can't see this going anywhere but there are similar complaints in the Neta facebook groups about Neta recent price reductions

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

[JBChiangRai]

This price reduction campaign has backfired.

 

 

[motdaeng]

30 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

 

how the price reduction vent was just not the right move... it caused a lot of damage!

 

i think it will take a few years for ev's prices to stabilize, because right now there's a lot of room for improvement, a lot of competitions for market share, battery costs are falling ... and so on.

[JBChiangRai]

On 7/23/2024 at 2:00 PM, hotchilli said:

The elites in Thailand have bought their premium brand EV if they wanted one.. they have the resources to do so.

The rest living on a budget are opting for the affordable Chine brands.

 

On 7/23/2024 at 2:31 PM, motdaeng said:

 

that was and still is true for all ICE cars as well ... nothing new!

 

btw, affordable chinese ev cars are much better than their reputation suggests,

and their prices are coming down too ...

 

There are 2 members here who had Premium EV’s, as Premium as you get in Thailand and both of us have bought BYD Seal Performance models.

 

They are stunning cars, the quality is up there with the Premium cars.

 

There are differences, smaller tyres, no air suspension, but better spec’s as standard with things like head-up displays, seat ventilation, heat rejecting panoramic roofs, premium audio which are all extra-cost on German Premium EV’s.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

BYD customers appeal to the Consumers' Foundation to return their cars and receive compensation for the price difference

On July 25, 2024, Mr. Thanat Thamisakun, Director of the Consumer Protection Center, Foundation for Consumers and Head of the Bangkok Provincial Office of the Consumer Council, revealed that a group of BYD car users had filed a complaint with the foundation for assistance..

The head of the Consumer Protection Center of the Consumer Council revealed that the council will collect the damages of the complainants and will coordinate with the car sales company to provide compensation to the victims. Today, the demands of the complainants have been mutually agreed upon and the following proposals have been made:

1. Let the company buy back the said car model.

2. Compensate the difference as car buyers should receive, namely the ATTO 3 model at a price of 400,000 baht and the Dolphin model at a price of 220,000 baht...

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1616079

I can't see this going anywhere but there are similar complaints in the Neta facebook groups about Neta recent price reductions

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

 

[MartinBangkok]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:25 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

A well thought out and reasoned post.  "Most people who have them wish they did not" can I have some of whatever it is you're smoking?

 

 

It's very sad.  Some of us were born poor but through initiative, risking everything they had and more than a little hard work became comfortably off. 

 

Whilst others don't take risks in their lives and work the 9 to 5, rising to the top if they have good qualities or retiring poor if they were generally unpopular people with personality defects who think those who made it in life are as "shallow as a mud puddle".

 

 

It is not about the numbers, it is about the trend.  In their first year Tesla sold 100 cars, they were all pre-ordered many for longer than a year.

 

In their second year they sold 900 cars.

 

If you look at the numbers as @vinny41 would have us do, you would say pfft, it's nothing, insignificant compared to the millions of ICE cars sold.

 

However, if you look at the trend, it points to what is important, people were switching their allegiance from ICE to EV.

 

It's the same with BMW, their EV sales increase in the article is 40%. That is the trend.

 

If we look at all EV sales in Thailand, a similar pattern emerges.  You have to look at EV sales compared to ICE cars.  You can't look at EV sales alone.  So the best metric for buyer behaviour is to look at all the new cars sold and in particular look at the percentage of EV's out of the whole and the percentage of ICE as a whole.

 

January is unusual and had to be discounted for obvious reasons (subsidy ending and big push to register 2023 cars).

 

So we have February, March, April, May & June.  In each of those months the market share of EV's increased over the previous month and correspondingly, the market share of ICE cars decreased each month.

 

The trend is clear, of all those people choosing to buy a new car, a greater percentage of them every month chose an EV over an ICE.

 

Why are people choosing EV's over ICE?  The advantages are clear, they cost 20% of an ICE car to refuel.  You can wake up every morning to a full tank. They drive better, they are as quiet as a Rolls Royce, there is no vibration from the engine.  They are fast, there is a direct relationship between acceleration & pleasure.  In Thailand, they cost about the same.

 

Why are people choosing ICE over EV? It's either FUD (fear uncertainty & doubt) over things like Will the battery fail? Will it catch fire? Will it depreciate really badly? Can I make long trips? Or it could be that their usage pattern makes it more difficult to own an EV, they may live in a condo, most of their trips are long distance.  The other reason is VFM, Value for Money (but not in Thailand).

 

America and EU apply tariffs on Chinese EV's, so the great VFM advantage disappears. FUD & the battery issue is being addressed by manufacturers, MG just gave a lifetime warranty on their batteries, others may follow suit. Catching fire is about education, it's a fact proven with statistics from several countries that EV's catch fire a lot less than ICE cars, more than 10 times less.  Depreciation in some countries is an issue, in Thailand and Norway it isn't.  I recently sold an MG EP+ and I had to fight off potential buyers, it sold to the first caller.  I am looking for a second-hand ORA Good Cat for one of my daughters, they are too expensive for me, I will probably buy new.

 

I have a 76 year old lady friend.  A couple of months back she bought a new MG4 X-Power, she can't charge at home as she lives off grid.  She goes to PTT and fast charges her car whilst she has a coffee in Amazon, it suits her lifestyle but it doesn't suit everybody.  She doesn't think twice about driving to Chiang Mai for a weekend.

 

As more and more people switch to EV's their friends and neighbours see they have them and hear good reports and they make the switch too.  Look at California and Norway.  Thailand is leading the way in Asia for a very simple reason.  You can buy a high-quality Chinese EV at the same price or less than an ICE equivalent because there are no tariffs.

 

There are a lot of us on this forum who drive EV's, we are not all stupid.

 

 

 

Drive better? With 500 extra kilograms? Are you brainwashed?

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

Drive better? With 500 extra kilograms? Are you brainwashed?

No, I am experienced.

 

Generally heavier, cars drive better, that is a fact.

[In the jungle]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

No, I am experienced.

 

Generally heavier, cars drive better, that is a fact.

 

That is not a fact.

 

It is spectacularly ill informed.

[JBChiangRai]

17 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

 

That is not a fact.

 

It is spectacularly ill informed.

Nonsense.

 

That is taken from my own experience. Heavier cars are generally more luxurious, quieter, smoother, faster, better driving.

[MartinBangkok]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nonsense.

 

That is taken from my own experience. Heavier cars are generally more luxurious, quieter, smoother, faster, better driving.

I'll give you a clue: Half a ton extra for the suspension, bearings, (esentially all parts impacted by the load) brakes and wheels to resist (potholes, braking distance, gravital force through bends) The last two even worse in slippery conditions. 

Edited July 26 by MartinBangkok

[JBChiangRai]

20 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

I'll give you a clue: Half a ton extra for the suspension, bearings, (esentially all parts with connection to the road) brakes and wheels to resist (potholes, braking distance, gravital force through bends) Everything even worse in slippery conditions. 

You missed out better road holding because of a much lower center of gravity.

[MartinBangkok]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You missed out better road holding because of a much lower center of gravity.

And you think that beats the considerable extra gravitational force in bends and dramatically lower grip?

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

And you think that beats the considerable extra gravitational force in bends and dramatically lower grip?

Actually, it is dramatically higher grip due to the extra downforce and increase pressure between tyre contact point and road.

 

It is also the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.

 

Ask any EV owner how their cars handle.

[Gweiloman]

9 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Actually, it is dramatically higher grip due to the extra downforce and increase pressure between tyre contact point and road.

 

It is also the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.

 

Ask any EV owner how their cars handle.

My BYD Dolphin drives much better than my Mazda 2. Instant acceleration, smoother, quieter and much more comfortable.

 

Someone who has never sat in or driven an EV but claims an ICE drives better is spectacularly uninformed and talking nonsense.

[lapamita]

22 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

But he hasn't ever owned a BYD!

 

One unnamed anti-EV guy's uninformed opinion.

 

Stop the bus! I want to get off!

you dont read the post , and unqualified answer. and i think you never wowned a byd by yourself

 

The NO GO , to buy the BYD , after a test drive and sitting in the car. was the hudge smell of plastic parts. I feel like sitting in a chemical lab. Yes new Cras always smelling , bút this was 10 fold like a fiat honda or whatever. secondary , the cheaper plastic parts ( or feel cheaper)

rest of the car was impressive and nice

 

but the smell was a nogo

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, lapamita said:

you dont read the post , and unqualified answer. and i think you never wowned a byd by yourself

 

The NO GO , to buy the BYD , after a test drive and sitting in the car. was the hudge smell of plastic parts. I feel like sitting in a chemical lab. Yes new Cras always smelling , bút this was 10 fold like a fiat honda or whatever. secondary , the cheaper plastic parts ( or feel cheaper)

rest of the car was impressive and nice

 

but the smell was a nogo

 

I do own a BYD.

 

No smell at all in mine, except when I fart and for sure, you wouldn't want to be there then.

 

The quality of the plastics is excellent in mine, and the vegan leather, and the alcantara.

[MartinBangkok]

15 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I do own a BYD.

 

No smell at all in mine, except when I fart and for sure, you wouldn't want to be there then.

 

The quality of the plastics is excellent in mine, and the vegan leather, and the alcantara.

Vegan leather...

Do you vote Democrats too?

[it is what it is]

On 7/23/2024 at 4:57 AM, redwood1 said:

Maybe in the future decades EVs might be worth buying but now they are a very poor investment and also a whole lot of trouble for many reasons.....Their sales are very slow all over the world...

 

very very few people buy cars as an investment, pretty much every new cars loses value the moment its driven of the forecourt.

[JBChiangRai]

20 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I do own a BYD.

 

No smell at all in mine, except when I fart and for sure, you wouldn't want to be there then.

 

The quality of the plastics is excellent in mine, and the vegan leather, and the alcantara.

 

5 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Vegan leather...

Do you vote Democrats too?

 

I am not from the former colonies.