The most sensible comment from a politician "I want them to stop dying"

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

You seem to know so much about the Russians. Are you one? And if so why are you not in Russia? Or are you one of those trolls paid by Russia to influence social media? I really do wonder because you posts reveal an in dept understanding of the worlds affairs as seen by the Russian propaganda machine.

 Ah ha, the old "if you don't agree with us - you are a Russian agent" tactic.  Reds under the bed!!!    Are you serious?

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Can only imagine the terror that the world would experience if Russia had 800.  Terrifying!!!!

 Wouldn't it be cool to leave countries alone? That's what many on here keep saying: "Leave Ukraine to decide" What about the others?

Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Vietnam, Cuba, Kosovo, Haiti, Bosnia, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Gaza, Cambodia, Korea, Dominican Rep, Lao and now Ukraine

[bubblegum]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Wouldn't it be cool to leave countries alone? That's what many on here keep saying: "Leave Ukraine to decide" What about the others?

Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Vietnam, Cuba, Kosovo, Haiti, Bosnia, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Gaza, Cambodia, Korea, Dominican Rep, Lao and now Ukraine

All of them basically invaded by Russia.

[atpeace]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Vietnam, Cuba, Kosovo, Haiti, Bosnia, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Gaza, Cambodia, Korea, Dominican Rep, Lao and now Ukraine - Next?  Taiwan maybe?  Lebanon again?

As the US wants to rule our world, they must have nothing to do at home, right? No fentanyl problems, homeless problems, no border issues, no mafia, no crime, no racial issues and a free and excellent hospital service. What could go wrong?

Yep, we have issues but comparable to the Russia? Russia is an injured predator that is very dangerous still.  I just don't think the USA has to be the leader in restraining their aggressions.  I also don't think the average Russian want to invade other nations.  The ones I know are nice enough but extremely proud to be Russians.  Weird dynamic that nationalism promotes.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Yep, we have issues but comparable to the Russia? Russia is an injured predator that is very dangerous still.  I just don't think the USA has to be the leader in restraining their aggressions.  I also don't think the average Russian want to invade other nations.  The ones I know are nice enough but extremely proud to be Russians.  Weird dynamic that nationalism promotes.

 Have you been to Russia much? I have and have assisted in a hospital on a UK/Russia government exchange programme. I do NOT support war - whether it is Gaza or Ukraine - but I understand the background. Many here know zilch - USA can prod the bear all it likes - it will not end well.

[atpeace]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Wouldn't it be cool to leave countries alone? That's what many on here keep saying: "Leave Ukraine to decide" What about the others?

Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Uganda, Niger, Syria, Vietnam, Cuba, Kosovo, Haiti, Bosnia, Panama, Grenada, Lebanon, Gaza, Cambodia, Korea, Dominican Rep, Lao and now Ukraine

In a perfect world yes.  Much more complicated than your simple statement.  I concede that the USA seems to get involved too often.  Not sure what the right balance is but something much less.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Yep, we have issues but comparable to the Russia? Russia is an injured predator that is very dangerous still.  I just don't think the USA has to be the leader in restraining their aggressions.  I also don't think the average Russian want to invade other nations.  The ones I know are nice enough but extremely proud to be Russians.  Weird dynamic that nationalism promotes.

Injured predator?

Thanks to their leader the injuries have been self inflicted.

Nobody made them invade. 
That was their choice.

As far as Russian public opinion, my impression is that majority have bought the propaganda that the "special operation" is a rescue mission for Russian speakers.

The actual brutality of the Russian army is not shown on their media. 

 

[BobBKK]

5 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Yep, we have issues but comparable to the Russia? Russia is an injured predator that is very dangerous still.  I just don't think the USA has to be the leader in restraining their aggressions.  I also don't think the average Russian want to invade other nations.  The ones I know are nice enough but extremely proud to be Russians.  Weird dynamic that nationalism promotes.

 BTW, there is nothing more nationalistic than redkneck Americans who want to bomb Moscow, Beijing and just about everywhere else. 

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

In a perfect world yes.  Much more complicated than your simple statement.  I concede that the USA seems to get involved too often.  Not sure what the right balance is but something much less.

 Not USA business - it has a 'saviour complex'.

I'm still 50/50 whether this leads to WW3 - lots of Tinder out there - Hezbollah, Gaza, Taiwan etc.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 BTW, there is nothing more nationalistic than redkneck Americans who want to bomb Moscow, Beijing and just about everywhere else. 

OK, don't know of one.  I'll take your word for it that there a few.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Not USA business - it has a 'saviour complex'.

I'm still 50/50 whether this leads to WW3 - lots of Tinder out there - Hezbollah, Gaza, Taiwan etc.

Something will lead to WWIII and there has always been tinder.  I'm not losing sleep over Ukraine being the cause but you never know.  

 

Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, atpeace said:

OK, don't know of one.  I'll take your word for it that there a few.

 ok ok, but my point was more serious - I think Americans are just as nationalistic as Russians - and Brits, and Thais, of course. Personally, I loathe nationalism in all it's forms.

[stoner]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I loathe nationalism in all it's forms.

 

i'm a human being first and foremost. everything else is chatter. i want off this rock. 

[atpeace]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 ok ok, but my point was more serious - I think Americans are just as nationalistic as Russians - and Brits, and Thais, of course. Personally, I loathe nationalism in all it's forms.

OK- I agree for the most part.

[Lacessit]

31 minutes ago, mikebike said:

No need for you to respect a military which seemed doomed to losing but which contained and ultimately repelled a more experienced and stronger force by giving everything their country had to offer.

 

But maybe, just maybe, you have the gray matter to realize if not for Russia throwing their population into the meat grinder, their is very little hope that the Allies would have saved Europe from fascism.

True. However, it's important to remember in 1937 Stalin executed the entire military Supreme Command and gutted the officer corps with arrests on trumped-up charges. It's why they lost so many early on, until guys like Zhukov and Konev stepped up. Many of the losses the Germans inflicted were down to Stalin's paranoia.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

Something will lead to WWIII and there has always been tinder.  I'm not losing sleep over Ukraine being the cause but you never know.  

 

Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine?

 

A few reasons - they saw USA influence growing to the extent of fixing Ukraine elections, they saw Russians in Donbas being slaughtered, they felt that the 2014 agreement was pooped on, they saw NATO expanding, and they felt no one was listening. But that's just an opinion, of course. Russians are a very stubborn people - they will never give up - and that is the problem as they are ideologically motivated. They simply can't stand being bullied and manipulated. 

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

True. However, it's important to remember in 1937 Stalin executed the entire military Supreme Command and gutted the officer corps with arrests on trumped-up charges. It's why they lost so many early on, until guys like Zhukov and Konev stepped up. Many of the losses the Germans inflicted were down to Stalin's paranoia.

 Stalin was pure evil - very bad days. USA and UK sucked up to him, unfortunately. 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Stalin was pure evil - very bad days. USA and UK sucked up to him, unfortunately. 

There seems to be a disconnect - Stalin is evil, Putin is not?

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Stalin was pure evil - very bad days. USA and UK sucked up to him, unfortunately. 

Some times you just have no choice other than puckering up and taking what follows.   Not my style but happy someone else did the sucking.

[BobBKK]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There seems to be a disconnect - Stalin is evil, Putin is not?

 

False equivalency, like saying, "Hitler was evil, but Trump is not?" 

[BobBKK]

4 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Some times you just have no choice other than puckering up and taking what follows.   Not my style but happy someone else did the sucking.

 Well we live in interesting times - there are no heroes and villains just pain, grief and sadness - humans will never learn.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Well we live in interesting times - there are no heroes and villains just pain, grief and sadness - humans will never learn.

Well people from even the recent past would marvel in how easy we have it.  My life is incredible and only experience the above when a pet dies.  There are so many wonderful things the world as a whole has experienced the last 50 years even with the small conflicts ( compared to the past).  It's so easy to live in this world and I have little materially compared too many.  

[TedG]

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The context is important.

Trump lies constantly.

The context is that Trump wants to surrender to his idol Putin and he has no issue with Ukraine become a slave state of Russ. 

Name a Democart who does not lie. 

[TedG]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Well we live in interesting times - there are no heroes and villains just pain, grief and sadness - humans will never learn.

Putin is a vilin for sure. 

[TedG]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There seems to be a disconnect - Stalin is evil, Putin is not?

Putin is Stalin-lite.   He wants to be Stalin but lacks the resources to do so. 

[TedG]

27 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

A few reasons - they saw USA influence growing to the extent of fixing Ukraine elections, they saw Russians in Donbas being slaughtered, they felt that the 2014 agreement was pooped on, they saw NATO expanding, and they felt no one was listening. But that's just an opinion, of course. Russians are a very stubborn people - they will never give up - and that is the problem as they are ideologically motivated. They simply can't stand being bullied and manipulated. 

 

There is so much Putin propaganda in this post. 

[TedG]

44 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Have you been to Russia much? I have and have assisted in a hospital on a UK/Russia government exchange programme. I do NOT support war - whether it is Gaza or Ukraine - but I understand the background. Many here know zilch - USA can prod the bear all it likes - it will not end well.

 

You don't support the war, but you excuse Putin's war on Ukraine. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

I agree... but it doesn't "manage its own affairs" the USA manages them for it - deposing a democratically elected president. Yanukovych had been duly elected in balloting that international observers considered reasonably free and fair—about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.

Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had travelled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

McCain was worse - he dined with Yanokuvich's opposition leaders and supported his overthrow.

 

The US did not depose a democratically elected leader: Yanukovych was ousted by a popular uprising.

 

The Ukrainian parliament had passed a bill approving the signing of the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement. Yanukovych was elected on a platform which promised that this bill would be signed into law. The Ukrainian electorate made their view clear: they wanted Ukraine to look West, not East. Following his election, Yanukovych unilaterally decided not to sign the Agreement. To put this into context, it is akin to Boris Johnson standing on a platform of 'Get Brexit done' and then, once elected, unilaterally deciding that the UK would remain in the EU. This was the catalyst for the Maidan revolution.

 

Prior to the popular uprising, Putin had been giving the Ukrainian rebels in the East, economic and military aid i.e. he was interfering in the domestic affairs of another sovereign nation. He now went a step further and invaded Crimea and the Dombass and things have escalated from there.

 

The truth of the matter is that the war in Ukraine has little to do with US interference and everything to do with Russian aggression and expansionism.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

 

False equivalency, like saying, "Hitler was evil, but Trump is not?" 

Trump is not in the same class - yet.

 

He is certainly on record about getting retribution for all his imagined grievances..

 

Putin is not in the same class as Stalin in terms of numbers, but he is getting there. Over half a million Russians dead on the battlefield, 30,000 Ukrainian civilians killed with deliberate attacks on non-military infrastructure.

 

If you're trying to tell me Putin is not a monster, you really are <deleted> in the head.

[candide]

6 hours ago, bubblegum said:

You seem to know so much about the Russians. Are you one? And if so why are you not in Russia? Or are you one of those trolls paid by Russia to influence social media? I really do wonder because you posts reveal an in dept understanding of the worlds affairs as seen by the Russian propaganda machine.

The most funny aspect is that he's probably not even paid! 😀