The most sensible comment from a politician "I want them to stop dying"

[candide]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 

A few reasons - they saw USA influence growing to the extent of fixing Ukraine elections, they saw Russians in Donbas being slaughtered, they felt that the 2014 agreement was pooped on, they saw NATO expanding, and they felt no one was listening. But that's just an opinion, of course. Russians are a very stubborn people - they will never give up - and that is the problem as they are ideologically motivated. They simply can't stand being bullied and manipulated. 

Well, up to now, it seems they can stand being bullied and manipulated by Putin! 😀

[rasg]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

Only marginal difference. with the main difference that the democrats are not trying to destroy democracy and the constitution. 

Chicken Don is a sociopath, He is transactional, anything he does there got to be something in it for him. 

Russia and  China is a very complicated situation. to complex to discuss in this thread replies.  

 

You are thinking of the Joe Biden syndicate. Trump never asks for things for himself. It's always for the US unlike Joe, Hunter and the Biden syndicate, of course. The tariffs Trump imposed on Chinese imports go to the US government. When Trump told NATO to start paying their fair share, most of them did. Nothing wrong with either of those things.

 

Too complicated to discuss?! Don't be ridiculous. As far as Russia is concerned, the US made agreements with Putin that they would not expand NATO and then reneged on it. In 2014 the US State department financed a revolution in Ukraine to oust the sitting president and put their man in place who wanted to join both the EU and NATO. Victoria Nuland of the US State Department admitted it in a phone call you will find online. In the meantime they started to attack their own Russian speaking people in Donbass etc.

Think of the Cuban missile crisis and the Bay of Pigs in reverse. There was NO WAY that Putin was going to allow NATO missiles on his borders.

If you really want to know what went on back in 2014, watch the documentary Ukraine on Fire. You will learn something.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There are a few criminal indictments that say otherwise.

 

Don't bother replying with the political witch-hunt BS, no sane person believes it.

 

IIRC Trump has it in for Zelensky because he refused to manufacture dirt on Biden for Trump.

Well bearing in mind that most of the court cases you refer to have collapsed through invented crimes and using politicised judges and special prosecutors it very definitely has been a political witch hunt.

 

E Jean Carroll who accused Trump of rape couldn't even remember the month or year it took place... 

 

The funny thing is every time they try doing something like it, Trump gets MORE popular. By the way, only one of the cases was criminal and the Supreme court struck that one down. Joe Biden, on the other hand, was found, as VP to have stored documents he should never have been allowed to have. He stated that Biden was mentally too far gone to even remember what he did and shouldn’t be prosecuted. We now know that to be true.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I agree... but it doesn't "manage its own affairs" the USA manages them for it - deposing a democratically elected president. Yanukovych had been duly elected in balloting that international observers considered reasonably free and fair—about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.

Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had travelled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

McCain was worse - he dined with Yanokuvich's opposition leaders and supported his overthrow.

Even Obama was over there at the time and the MSM were dead against the US at the time. Magically they all fell into line when Putin attacked. Ukraine has been a gigantic money laundering machine for the Bidens and others.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, transam said:

Your nuts, who brainwashed you.........? 

You only have to take a look at the newspapers and TV news at the time. All still available if you can be bothered to find out what is really going on in Ukraine.

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, TedG said:

Putin managed to further expand NATO.  

Realy ? How is that?   

[rasg]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Historical fact old boy 

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

That's a good and accurate article but it doesn’t mention that Hunter Biden then became a Director of Burisma (a Ukraine energy company) with no experience whatsoever and started laundering cash and blackmailing some of the powers that be for cash.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, TedG said:

 

I thought Putin started the war to denazify Uakine.   Or to save the people of Donbas.   Or his ever changing narrative. 

If you watched any of his speeches he explains exactly why he started it. Donbass had been attacked many times since 2014 and the US and NATO had not stuck to the agreements in place to keep expanding towards Russia.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The context is important.

Trump lies constantly.

The context is that Trump wants to surrender to his idol Putin and he has no issue with Ukraine become a slave state of Russ. 

Yawn.

[rasg]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Have you been to Russia much? I have and have assisted in a hospital on a UK/Russia government exchange programme. I do NOT support war - whether it is Gaza or Ukraine - but I understand the background. Many here know zilch - USA can prod the bear all it likes - it will not end well.

Correct. Too many have swallowed the coordinated MSM bs.

[TedG]

24 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Realy ? How is that?   

Finland and Sweden joined NATO.  

[rasg]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Not USA business - it has a 'saviour complex'.

I'm still 50/50 whether this leads to WW3 - lots of Tinder out there - Hezbollah, Gaza, Taiwan etc.

The saviour complex is mainly from the Leftie US politicians who can line their own pockets even further under the guise of aid and weapons.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, TedG said:

Finland and Sweden joined NATO.  

and what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? 

[rasg]

9 hours ago, TedG said:

 

There is so much Putin propaganda in this post. 

Nope. Just an explanation of why he is doing, what he is doing. I've already mentioned it to me it's like the Bay of Pigs in reverse. JFK told Kruschev to get his missiles off Cuba or else. The US has done exactly the same to Putin and like JFK there was no way that Putin was going to allow NATO missiles OR bio labs on the border of Russia and Ukraine.

[TedG]

9 minutes ago, rasg said:

 the US and NATO had not stuck to the agreements in place to keep expanding towards Russia.

There was never an agreement of the sort. 

 

Russia did agree this in the 90's

 

To achieve the aims of this Act, NATO and Russia will base their relations on a shared commitment to the following principles:

• development, on the basis of transparency, of a strong, stable, enduring and equal partnership and of cooperation to strengthen security and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area;
• acknowledgement of the vital role that democracy, political pluralism, the rule of law, and respect for human rights and civil liberties and the development of free market economies play in the development of common prosperity and comprehensive security;
• refraining from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States contained in the Helsinki Final Act;
• respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
• mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines;
• prevention of conflicts and settlement of disputes by peaceful means in accordance with UN and OSCE principles;
• support, on a case-by-case basis, of peacekeeping operations carried out under the authority of the UN Security Council or the responsibility of the OSCE. 

https://www.nato.int/cps/su/natohq/official_texts_25468.htm

[TedG]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? 

It's an accurate reply to a post. 

[TedG]

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

Nope. Just an explanation of why he is doing, what he is doing. I've already mentioned it to me it's like the Bay of Pigs in reverse. JFK told Kruschev to get his missiles off Cuba or else. The US has done exactly the same to Putin and like JFK there was no way that Putin was going to allow NATO missiles OR bio labs on the border of Russia and Ukraine.

The US does not need missiles in Ukraine.   

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, TedG said:

It's an accurate reply to a post. 

Not to the question of what started the Ukraine war.

  Obviously something that happen after the war started could not had been the cause of the war. 

[rasg]

1 minute ago, TedG said:

The US does not need missiles in Ukraine.   

Possibly not but there was no way that Putin was going to allow them on the border of Russia.

[TedG]

Just now, rasg said:

Possibly not but there was no way that Putin was going to allow them on the border of Russia.

 

There is always Finland. 

[cjinchiangrai]

Trump plans to stop the killing by allowing Putin to annex Ukraine. He has been a Russian asset for years.

[rasg]

9 minutes ago, TedG said:

There was never an agreement of the sort. 

 

Russia did agree this in the 90's

 

 

To achieve the aims of this Act, NATO and Russia will base their relations on a shared commitment to the following principles:

• development, on the basis of transparency, of a strong, stable, enduring and equal partnership and of cooperation to strengthen security and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area;
• acknowledgement of the vital role that democracy, political pluralism, the rule of law, and respect for human rights and civil liberties and the development of free market economies play in the development of common prosperity and comprehensive security;
• refraining from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States contained in the Helsinki Final Act;
• respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
• mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines;
• prevention of conflicts and settlement of disputes by peaceful means in accordance with UN and OSCE principles;
• support, on a case-by-case basis, of peacekeeping operations carried out under the authority of the UN Security Council or the responsibility of the OSCE. 

https://www.nato.int/cps/su/natohq/official_texts_25468.htm

https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

[rasg]

4 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Trump plans to stop the killing by allowing Putin to annex Ukraine. He has been a Russian asset for years.

Pure nonsense.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, rasg said:

https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

The US knew that Russia would not have a choice other than to invade . 

Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy Former President of France initially stated their opposition to NATO eastern expansion

 

"Merkel said that NATO membership would have damaged Ukraine and that Putin would have seen it as akin to a “declaration of war, "

 

CIA Director Bill Burns , and then Ambassador to Russia warned Washington 

"Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players…I have yet to find anyone who view Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.” " 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/04/28/did-the-us-really-take-russias-nato-concerns-very-seriously/

 

Many many others warned yet it came as a surprise to the US when Russia invaded Ukraine. If you believe that it did come as a surprise IMO you are soft between the ears.  

Ukraine was canon fodder in a successful attempt of the US to restart the cold war. Something that you and your children will be paying for generations to come.  

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

Well bearing in mind that most of the court cases you refer to have collapsed through invented crimes and using politicised judges and special prosecutors it very definitely has been a political witch hunt.

 

E Jean Carroll who accused Trump of rape couldn't even remember the month or year it took place... 

 

The funny thing is every time they try doing something like it, Trump gets MORE popular. By the way, only one of the cases was criminal and the Supreme court struck that one down. Joe Biden, on the other hand, was found, as VP to have stored documents he should never have been allowed to have. He stated that Biden was mentally too far gone to even remember what he did and shouldn’t be prosecuted. We now know that to be true.

If you want to talk about politicized judges, Aileen Cannon and the Supreme Court are prime examples.

 

A president immune to prosecution for crimes committed while in office. A judge so biased the entire intelligence community must be wondering if anyone would want to put themselves in harm's way, when a president can (a) show off top secret files to all and sundry ( b ) retain files despite repeated requests for their return.

 

Biden's retention of files is false equivalence, he returned them as soon as he was asked. Trump lied and concealed the ones he took.

 

Trump may be popular with those who are too stupid to see what he is doing to the fabric of America. I suspect there are many Americans who are heartily sick of Trump, and want him behind them.

[Lacessit]

36 minutes ago, rasg said:

Pure nonsense.

Suppose you tell us how Trump will end the war in Ukraine, then.

[rasg]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you want to talk about politicized judges, Aileen Cannon and the Supreme Court are prime examples.

 

A president immune to prosecution for crimes committed while in office. A judge so biased the entire intelligence community must be wondering if anyone would want to put themselves in harm's way, when a president can (a) show off top secret files to all and sundry ( b ) retain files despite repeated requests for their return.

 

Biden's retention of files is false equivalence, he returned them as soon as he was asked. Trump lied and concealed the ones he took.

 

Trump may be popular with those who are too stupid to see what he is doing to the fabric of America. I suspect there are many Americans who are heartily sick of Trump, and want him behind them.

How funny. SCOTUS just upholds the Constitution. Nothing more, nothing less. Joe Biden on the other hand wants to rip it up because it suits him.

 

The Biden "false equivalence" you refer to is incorrect. Biden was VP and simply should have had them at all. Trump on the other hand as POTUS could simply declassify anything he wanted and show them to anybody he wanted to.

 

You're a good old Democrat who is too blind to see what Biden's policies have done to the US from the day he was "inaugurated". Fortunately he has now gone but it will take years to undo the crap that Biden has inflicted on the US in the last few years. Weak, feeble, corrupt and useless.

 

  

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Suppose you tell us how Trump will end the war in Ukraine, then.

Happy to. Trump spoke to Zelensky in the last couple of weeks and the mood for negotiations with Putin will start way before November and Trump will be the peacemaker.

[luckymitchell]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

except for what Chicken Don says no indication at all. 

This is what he said to his "Beautiful Christians" 

 

This is misinformation.

The context of this clipped soundbite was bringing back voter ID. As in, its important to vote this time because there is currently no voter ID required, so anyone can vote, but once in power he will 'fix it', ie- ID will be requireed, so future election will be safe.

the fact that mulitple media channels have run with this out of context clip goes to show how bias they are towards team biden. What this news anchor says is basically a lie, not a mistake, a purposely said lie, the same as the Charlottesville clip. The MSM are causing the divide in the country by constantly lying and misquoting Trump. How people can not see that is beyond me. But I guess those people 'drank the cool-aid' as they say.

[luckymitchell]

13 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I agree... but it doesn't "manage its own affairs" the USA manages them for it - deposing a democratically elected president. Yanukovych had been duly elected in balloting that international observers considered reasonably free and fair—about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.

Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had travelled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

McCain was worse - he dined with Yanokuvich's opposition leaders and supported his overthrow.

Agree with all that apart from 'mature western democracies' look at the Brits over Brexit, and the USA over trump, 2 of the worlds most prominent have shown themselves to act like children

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

How funny. SCOTUS just upholds the Constitution. Nothing more, nothing less. Joe Biden on the other hand wants to rip it up because it suits him.

 

The Biden "false equivalence" you refer to is incorrect. Biden was VP and simply should have had them at all. Trump on the other hand as POTUS could simply declassify anything he wanted and show them to anybody he wanted to.

 

You're a good old Democrat who is too blind to see what Biden's policies have done to the US from the day he was "inaugurated". Fortunately he has now gone but it will take years to undo the crap that Biden has inflicted on the US in the last few years. Weak, feeble, corrupt and useless.

 

  

Happy to. Trump spoke to Zelensky in the last couple of weeks and the mood for negotiations with Putin will start way before November and Trump will be the peacemaker.

Where do I start with the lies and and evasions in your post. Aileen Cannon obviously is going to get reversed, she is corrupt. Trump stacked the Supreme Court with conservatives. Faith in that institution is at an all-time low. Introducing presidential immunity is not upholding the Constitution, that's a lie.

 

There is a formal process for declassification of documents. Trump evaded it, another lie.

 

Biden's policies have resulted in a stock market at all time highs, unemployment at record lows. He grew GDP, Trump shrank it. Another lie.

 

You're talking about corruption, when Trump creamed off $240 million from the American taxpayer for the 300 times he played golf during his presidency? Show me where Biden has come within a bull's roar of that scam.

 

You are just one of the sheeple who think Trump's lies, grievance politics, bigotry and racism are justifiable, as they benefit you somehow. Here's a newsflash, if he gets re-elected he will throw you under the bus, just like he does everyone else. You will have served his purpose.

 

Zelensky knows Trump supports Putin. He will trust Trump about as far as he trusts Putin to keep his word.

 

BTW, I am not American. It doesn't take Einstein to understand how much damage Trump is doing to the unity of America.