UK Winter Fuel Payments Scrapped for Millions Amid Budget Cuts

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is. You are more than welcome to come with me next time.

 

You so clearly confirming that you have no idea what the difference is between anecdote and verifiable data wasn’t the response I expected, but thanks for for being so eagerly forthcoming on the matter.

If you need assistance getting to your next hospital appointment contact social services, they may be able to help.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Is it free? 

 

If a UK citizen has paid years of income tax and NI, is it free?

 

The answer is NO.

The NHS provides health services on the basis of residency, not how much tax/NI someone seeking treatment has or has not paid or citizenship.

 

If an expat returns to the UK yo seek healthcare from the NHS then they are either coincidentally returning to take up permanent residence, in which case they are entitled to treatment, or they are lying about/concealing their residency and this committing fraud.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

My point, the comment I quoted, was that those from afar are commenting on what they read. Not from personal experience. 

 

How can someone who lives in a foreign country, and has done for decades, know more than someone with real experience?

 

Answer, they can't.

 

Your opinion? It is just that. That's fine. 

 

I don't recall lying about anything. For you to suggest I'm a liar is somewhat defamatory.

I assure you, despite living here in Thailand, when I wish to comment from personal experience of the NHS I do so from a great deal of recent personal experience. 
 

But I don’t choose to present any personal experience as an argument, I rely on verifiable data and reports from reputable sources, refer link I provided earlier.

 

If anyone is causing you of lying, then they have zero basis to do so as the statements you make cannot be demonstrated to be false.

 

However, they can’t be demonstrated to be true either.

 

They are unverifiable anecdotes, that may or may not be true.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Indeed, the NHS was a source of national pride. The youtube programs one can watch about hospitals in the UK show competent dedicated staff working under difficult constraints, more money is needed to bring it back to its former glory but nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers are more important.

They don't need money. They need to sack 75% of the managers and stop wasting money on things the NHS was never meant to do. Eg, gender change surgery should not be done on the NHS.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

This will be very beneficial for lowering the risk of Global Warming.

 

Stop with the heating of houses!

Stop adding C02 to our atmosphere.

 

We should not be incentivizing increased use of fossil fuels to heat houses, anyway.

 

Electric heaters work too.

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They don't need money. They need to sack 75% of the managers and stop wasting money on things the NHS was never meant to do. Eg, gender change surgery should not be done on the NHS.

Agree.

 

I would charge for

 

lung cancer treatment if they smoke

Heart bypasses/transplants if overweight

Broken bones if they play dangerous sports

Hypertension if they don't exercise

Liver transplants if they drink (too much)

Diabetes if they consume too much sugar...tricky one

 

....and there are many other treatments that should not be free.

 

Even if people only pay a % based on their wealth, towards the costs, it would help.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Agree.

 

I would charge for

 

lung cancer treatment if they smoke

Heart bypasses/transplants if overweight

Broken bones if they play dangerous sports

Hypertension if they don't exercise

Liver transplants if they drink (too much)

Diabetes if they consume too much sugar...tricky one

 

....and there are many other treatments that should not be free.

 

Even if people only pay a % based on their wealth, towards the costs, it would help.

 

 

I'd add not doing any booked surgery on obese patients, and any person that abuses staff should be banned from all NHS facilities.

 

What many would not know is that by changing from a majority Enrolled nurse staff to an all Registered nurse staff, the wages cost increased dramatically. Just going back to enrolled nurses and in hospital training would likely save billions. It'd also end the nurse shortage. Worst thing they ever did IMO.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

And yet in a 3rd world country, I can walk into a hospital and see a doctor the same day for 50bht. Free parking as well!

50 Bt?? Where's that?? I know of someone who was quoted 500Bt in the government hospital in Pattaya just to see a doctor.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Even if people only pay a % based on their wealth, towards the costs, it would help.

What is National Insurance if not that?

 

 

With all the tests and surgery for my prostate op even 1% of the cost for them would have likely bankrupted me. The NHS was set up so poor people could have health service.

 

The NHS doesn't need more money, it needs to only do what it was intended for and better management. Anything else should be done private.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What is National Insurance if not that?

 

You seem to have missed your own point?????

 

Why should I pay NI to fund someone who chooses to smoke 40 a day and then needs to have extortionately expensive surgery?

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Correct.

 

But while NI remains in place at pensions are an earned entitlement.

People in mid working life or nearing retirement have a very reasonable expectation of receiving a pension on the basis of NI contributions they have payed.

 

Remove NI and that link is broken, pensions become a benefit and just like ‘Winter Fuel Allowances’ can be means tested or removed altogether with a stroke of a ministerial pen.

 

Binning plans to get rid of NI is a very positive move for ordinary working people.

 

The link was broken a long time ago when they introduced NI credits, people can get the state pension without ever having actually paid any NI. Something cannot be an earned entitlement when there has been no earnings.

The NI contribution was originally intended for 2 purposes, state pension and national health. The government now also uses NI to  pay for maternity allowance, job seekers allowance, support allowance and bereavement benefits.

All part of the plan to turn it into general taxation, also helps the optics on the welfare budget.

The real  obstacle in getting rid of NI is classification. Certain benefits are only payable if you have paid the appropriate class of NI. The benefits would need to be restructured first. Hunt was only testing the water when he made the suggestion.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

50 Bt?? Where's that?? I know of someone who was quoted 500Bt in the government hospital in Pattaya just to see a doctor.

NaKornPing or SanSai government hospital charge 50bht to unregistered patients see a doctor.

 

Blood pressure, pulse, height and weight you do yourself using the machines in the lobby.

 

Back on topic,

I'll miss my £500 winter fuel payment!

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

You seem to have missed your own point?????

 

Why should I pay NI to fund someone who chooses to smoke 40 a day and then needs to have extortionately expensive surgery?

You shouldn't, but blocking someone from surgery is not the same as charging for having it.

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You shouldn't, but blocking someone from surgery is not the same as charging for having it.

Blocking it??

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The government now also uses NI to  pay for maternity allowance, job seekers allowance, support allowance and bereavement benefits.

IMO children should be an individual cost. Why should I that never had children support other people's brats?

If people get a  job they'll pay tax so that's OK IMO.

Support is part of a healthy life so one can work and pay tax, so that's OK too.

Why should taxpayers give families money because someone died? We all die and it's expected we will. Support the family ourselves.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

Blocking it??

Yes. If someone is obese or smokes or drinks too much or uses illegal drugs, block them from having surgery. It's not brain surgery. It's obvious if they are too fat and simple tests pick up nicotine etc.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes. If someone is obese or smokes or drinks too much or uses illegal drugs, block them from having surgery. It's not brain surgery. It's obvious if they are too fat and simple tests pick up nicotine etc.

 

I'm lost now.

 

Are you advocating blocking them or accusing me of suggesting they should be blocked???

 

I think the former.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes. If someone is obese or smokes or drinks too much or uses illegal drugs, block them from having surgery. It's not brain surgery. It's obvious if they are too fat and simple tests pick up nicotine etc.

Did you get that from a how to be Nazi handbook, or Trump........😬

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes. If someone is obese or smokes or drinks too much or uses illegal drugs, block them from having surgery. It's not brain surgery. It's obvious if they are too fat and simple tests pick up nicotine etc.

Using the same logic,

No maternity care or STD care, no RTA care (unless while using public transport), the list is endless .....

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I'm lost now.

 

Are you advocating blocking them or accusing me of suggesting they should be blocked???

 

I think the former.

Yes, I'm advocating blocking them. The free health service should only be for those that attempt to be healthy. Voluntarily live an unhealthy life and don't expect other people to save you. Too many do gooders in positions of power IMO.

 

It boggles me that the people that drink and smoke too much are too often on tax payer benefits. I don't know how they can afford it on the dole.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

It boggles me that the people that drink and smoke too much are too often on tax payer benefits. I don't know how they can afford it on the dole.

I can answer that one, the worse your life is, the more you need to distract yourself from reality.

 

But if you want to insist on forcing people to lead healthy lives, constant monitoring of their exercise and consumption would be required. Maybe forced public exercise and food rationing just for a start. 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Using the same logic,

No maternity care or STD care, no RTA care (unless while using public transport), the list is endless .....

I agree on the maternity care, unless it's an unexpected complication. Get pregnant pay for it yourself. Being pregnant is not involuntary, unless it's rape and should get free abortion for that. Get pregnant because didn't use birth control, pay for the abortion.

 

If don't use condom, pay for STD yourself.

 

RTA caused by drinking or drugs, no free surgery or hospital stay.

 

Yes, the list is endless.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I can answer that one, the worse your life is, the more you need to distract yourself from reality.

 

Read that about chocolate.....when people have money they treat themselves to a chocy bar.....when times are hard they console themselves.....with a bar of chocolate.

 

Chocolatiers have it made.

[sandyf]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO children should be an individual cost. Why should I that never had children support other people's brats?

If people get a  job they'll pay tax so that's OK IMO.

Support is part of a healthy life so one can work and pay tax, so that's OK too.

Why should taxpayers give families money because someone died? We all die and it's expected we will. Support the family ourselves.

The why's and wherefore's are irrelevant.

The point was these allowances should be from the DWP budget, not NI.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Electric heaters work too.

 

And, they mostly work on power generated from fossil fuels, too.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I can answer that one, the worse your life is, the more you need to distract yourself from reality.

 

But if you want to insist on forcing people to lead healthy lives, constant monitoring of their exercise and consumption would be required. Maybe forced public exercise and food rationing just for a start. 

I didn't say had to live a healthy life, just try to. Don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't use illegal drugs, don't get fat. All those can easily be determined by using scales, or simple blood test.

Let people eat as much sugar as they want and get obese- that's their choice, but no free health care for diabetes, etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, sandyf said:

The why's and wherefore's are irrelevant.

The point was these allowances should be from the DWP budget, not NI.

 

Still on the taxpayer. Just don't pay for bludgers by taking it from working people.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

And, they mostly work on power generated from fossil fuels, too.

 

Not in NZ. The electricity I use comes from hydro.

 

Countries without hydro should use nuclear. No CO2 from that. France does.

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't say had to live a healthy life, just try to. Don't smoke, don't drink too much, don't use illegal drugs, don't get fat. All those can easily be determined by using scales, or simple blood test.

Let people eat as much sugar as they want and get obese- that's their choice, but no free health care for diabetes, etc.

Well IMHO all basic health care, education, food and housing should be available to all citizens that want it free of charge. But not necessarily what they want, how they want or where they want, some sort of workhouse environment may be appropriate with set meals.

[youreavinalaff]

11 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Your original post offers no qualification re residence or anything else. It is just a categorical statement.

 

If you have changed your mind and now wish to introduce nuances that's fine, but let's not pretend that was the original point.

 

 

Thanks 

 

 

The post in question is shown below. It is incorrect therefore it is not defamatory to call it as such.

 

"The expansion of EU from a decent trading block to a gravy train had a bigger impact. Just look at the pound decling as more countries were allowed in."

So, I didn't lie. 

 

You did though.