Warning! New Retirement Visa Rules - Hope This Is Of Interest.

[Jingthing]

Australia does indeed have a program. However, it is only for the very wealthy, as befits a wealthy country. I don't agree with comparing Thailand with the US, Australia, and Canada. A better comparison would be Malaysia and the Philipines, poorer countries like Thailand, both in SE Asia, both with much better and more stable retirement visa programs. The trouble is most of us don't really want to live there, including me!

Are you rich and love Oz? No problem:

http://hwmigration.com/retirement-visa-australia.php

Edited August 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Naam]

You must invest in State/Territory government bonds:

* $500,000 if you intend to live in a regional area OR;

* $750,000 if you intend to live in a non-regional area.

This visa allows you to stay temporarily in Australia for 4 years.

If you wish to stay longer, you can apply for a further Investor Retirement visa which is valid for another 4 years. You will need to satisfy certain health and financial criteria, and also lodge a further bond.

big deal!

[PeaceBlondie]

Congratulations to Richard Ellis for starting a topic here which has generated over 210 posts (not including any that were deleted) and now 10,000 views!

Yes indeed, the individual officer has so much discretion that it only makes sense to dress as well as several posters have said, to be polite to the point of obsequiousness (look that one up!). Think of clever ways to tell the officer that she is right of course, but...but you don't quite understand why..... We even brought flowers to the biatches at the Mexican inmigracion service.

[Lance_A_Lot]

"Do you have a link to an official text saying this?"

No, it's just what the Immigration Officer (Pattaya) stated to me ... he said he 'was quoting Immigration law.' I do know that he will not accept applications for retirement visa extensions more than 90 days in advance of the visa's expiration date. I recomend checking their website.

[speedways]

"Do you have a link to an official text saying this?"

No, it's just what the Immigration Officer (Pattaya) stated to me ... he said he 'was quoting Immigration law.' I do know that he will not accept applications for retirement visa extensions more than 90 days in advance of the visa's expiration date. I recomend checking their website.

i know this is a link for people renewing retirement visas, but i am retiring to thailand in october.

my question is about the 800k baht in thai bank account

as i cannot open an account in thailand till i arrive what happens about

the three month rule

i will be applying on pension and balance to satisfy the 800k

hope someone here can help

george

[Jingthing]

"Do you have a link to an official text saying this?"

No, it's just what the Immigration Officer (Pattaya) stated to me ... he said he 'was quoting Immigration law.' I do know that he will not accept applications for retirement visa extensions more than 90 days in advance of the visa's expiration date. I recomend checking their website.

i know this is a link for people renewing retirement visas, but i am retiring to thailand in october.

my question is about the 800k baht in thai bank account

as i cannot open an account in thailand till i arrive what happens about

the three month rule

i will be applying on pension and balance to satisfy the 800k

hope someone here can help

george

You still need to season the money for three months. I am sure of this 100 percent. No exceptions for first time extensions. Why not get a multiple entry O visa and make a visa run and wait out the time?

Well, the one exception would be if you go for the O-A visa from your home country. I am talking about first time extension of an O visa based on retirement done in Thailand. If you go that route, the money doesn't even have to be in Thailand.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[ProThaiExpat]

Speedways: Jingthing missed this part of your post "i will be applying on pension and balance to satisfy the 800k"

The official regulation in writing states that you only need to have the money, that when added to your annualized pension, is equal to or greater than 800K, "on the day you make the application. No aging required when you go the pension + option. Will look for the cite and post it.

[ProThaiExpat]

Re:the foregoing:

National Police Office Order

No. 606/2006

Para 7.21

“Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application.”

(English translation)

[Jingthing]

Speedways: Jingthing missed this part of your post "i will be applying on pension and balance to satisfy the 800k"

The official regulation in writing states that you only need to have the money, that when added to your annualized pension, is equal to or greater than 800K, "on the day you make the application. No aging required when you go the pension + option. Will look for the cite and post it.

Ooops. Sorry, Indeed, I was speaking of using the account balance only.

[speedways]

Let me get this straight.

They are now demanding proof that funds came from abroad for previous years?

Yes, I had to prove that the funds in the bank account were originally transferred in from overseas. The Captain said the regulation was new and came into force on August 1st.

Aren't their codes in account books that show this anyway?

Evidently not, thinking doesn't seem to be encouraged. It would be easy to be cynical and suspect the intent is simply to create difficulty. Possibly a personal power thing.

So someone with 5 years of extensions would have to produce records going back 5 years? I find this extremely hard to believe.

Difficult to say based on what I actually experienced, however, the wretched woman at the desk looked at the new bank books, and wanted fto give me a 1-month extension because tyhe funds hadn't been there for 3 months, even though she was also given the old books which showed transactions for the last 3 years, and an unbroken record of funds in Thai banks, including withdrawals from the old accounts and deposits for the money in the new accounts.

I did get the impression that she was trying very hard to avoid giving me a 12 month extension. Nothing I can put my finger on, just a feeling, but it didn't make me feel all warm inside.

Anyone else feeling really jerked around?

I did feel that a bit. Especially when I had to quickly pay 500bt for taxi fares to get the pieces of paper, or accept a 1-month extension, or come back another day, when I suspected there would simply be more obstacles. Call me a cynic but I really think anti-foreigner sentiment is getting out of hand.

Rich

You are not a cynic!If one can speak or moreover understand some thai one will know that younger (42 down)Thais

are outright racists!And full of mythological false information.

Often is the time where I sit with My (Thai) mrs and other "Farang Thai" Couples and I hear the ladies talking VERY racist Crap about their partners.(My Mrs is even shocked at how common this occurs.And the blunt and crass

use of languange.And lack of human restpect or sympathy!They often even try to pull My Mrs into alot of <deleted> games with them! Some disrespectful Thai Phrases; "Farang kee nok"(Simular to "pennyless Tightassed ######")

and instead of "Kun" or "Pee" before your name "I" like Ibrian or ibob or ijim(Very bad!)

I opted out from speaking Thai as most nowadays hate it when we know what they are saying!(I used to think,"Why?" before I learned the bad language!)

thanks guys for your replies

feel better now i only need the money on application

[Lite Beer]

15 Pages ... Unbelievable.

Don`t panic.

[JetsetBkk]

15 Pages ... Unbelievable.

Don`t panic.

We're doomed. DOOMED!!

[Jingthing]

Schaudenfreud at work

[JetsetBkk]

Schaudenfreud at work

Not at all - it affects me too. You have to appreciate the British sense of humour!

[RichardEllis]

I rather think not. The responsibility for repatriation would ultimately fall upon the consulates either funded by their governments or the destitute's family.

Retirement is and will be at no cost to the Thai.

I agree, however the problem is not the risk, it is the fear of the risk.

Rich

[Krub]

Re:the foregoing:

National Police Office Order

No. 606/2006

Para 7.21

“Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application.”

(English translation)

You can see an ctual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you needto have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

[Krub]

"Do you have a link to an official text saying this?"

No, it's just what the Immigration Officer (Pattaya) stated to me ... he said he 'was quoting Immigration law.' I do know that he will not accept applications for retirement visa extensions more than 90 days in advance of the visa's expiration date. I recomend checking their website.

i know this is a link for people renewing retirement visas, but i am retiring to thailand in october.

my question is about the 800k baht in thai bank account

as i cannot open an account in thailand till i arrive what happens about

the three month rule

i will be applying on pension and balance to satisfy the 800k

hope someone here can help

george

According to the rules, the 3 months only applies if you go the 800K alone route

if you go the combined income + balance route you should be OK

Please note the should as it will depend on the officer

Even if they require you to have it for 3 months thye will allow you a 1 month extension before giving you the full year

See a copy of the official text in my post #182

[JetsetBkk]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

[Jingthing]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

I doubt anyone would try that. No such thing as such a small pension, get real.

But I will tell you one thing that isn't clever at all. The 3 month rule is just designed so that their people don't have to think. For the majority of people using the bank account method, they spend down during the year, and top it up before the extension. This pattern could be seen by a 10 year old looking at a bank book. Don't act like someone topping up before a meeting is committing any kind of abuse. That is buying into their questionable logic. It isn't abusive. Borrowing money for a few days would be abuse, granted. So how many people are being hassled with an onerous rule because of a few shirkers?

Hey, why stop at 3 months? How about 9 months? If 3 months supposedly solves their issue, wouldn't more months work even better?

Edited August 6, 2007 by Jingthing

[Filer]

Following on from from recent postings on this thread about the advantages of the income method, there's a question which I haven't seen answered elsewhere (and I'll raise it here rather than start a new thread).

Seeing that a foreign married couple, subject to marriage documentation and the other usual conditions, can generally get their 12 month retirement extensions on the basis of one sum of 800k in a joint-name account, can they also combine their individual pensions into one amount for the purpose of reaching or coming closer to the alternative annual 800k pension income qualification? This would seem logical, if they are allowed to count as a single household unit for the bank balance method? Has anybody tried this? Or is the income qualification applied strictly to each individual?

[Krub]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

I doubt anyone would try that. No such thing as such a small pension, get real.

But I will tell you one thing that isn't clever at all. The 3 month rule is just designed so that their people don't have to think. For the majority of people using the bank account method, they spend down during the year, and top it up before the extension. This pattern could be seen by a 10 year old looking at a bank book. Don't act like someone topping up before a meeting is committing any kind of abuse. That is buying into their questionable logic. It isn't abusive. Borrowing money for a few days would be abuse, granted. So how many people are being hassled with an onerous rule because of a few shirkers?

Hey, why stop at 3 months? How about 9 months? If 3 months supposedly solves their issue, wouldn't more months work even better?

HELLO Jingthing,

You are finaly coming to the same kind of partial conclusion that the majority has to pay for the few 'shirkers'

This is a point I have been making for a loooong time and unfortunately this forum with all its huge benefits does allow discussing ways to lets say walk around the rules.

It is not technically (according to the simple written rules) not allowed to lets say borrow the 800K for 3 months to comply with the rules. Doing this is however (but it is not written anywhere) against the spirit of the rules wich then has a consequence that each immigration officer makes up rules of their own like certificates to prove funds are yours (transfers from aborad) etc.

This is not unique to Thailand but used by goverments the world over (I ony have to take the reaction to the possible terrorist atacks which has resultedin you not being able to take a bottle of pure water on board an aircraft) The majority has to pay for the mistakes of a few.

The rules are extra simple but we need to provide extra documents for the few who abuse the system

Cheers

Edited August 6, 2007 by Krub

[speedways]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

I doubt anyone would try that. No such thing as such a small pension, get real.

But I will tell you one thing that isn't clever at all. The 3 month rule is just designed so that their people don't have to think. For the majority of people using the bank account method, they spend down during the year, and top it up before the extension. This pattern could be seen by a 10 year old looking at a bank book. Don't act like someone topping up before a meeting is committing any kind of abuse. That is buying into their questionable logic. It isn't abusive. Borrowing money for a few days would be abuse, granted. So how many people are being hassled with an onerous rule because of a few shirkers?

Hey, why stop at 3 months? How about 9 months? If 3 months supposedly solves their issue, wouldn't more months work even better?

HELLO Jingthing,

You are finaly coming to the same kind of partial conclusion that the majority has to pay for the few 'shirkers'

This is a point I have been making for a loooong time and unfortunately this forum with all its huge benefits does allow discussing ways to lets say walk around the rules.

It is not technically (according to the simple written rules) not allowed to lets say borrow the 800K for 3 months to comply with the rules. Doing this is however (but it is not written anywhere) against the spirit of the rules wich then has a consequence that each immigration officer makes up rules of their own like certificates to prove funds are yours (transfers from aborad) etc.

This is not unique to Thailand but used by goverments the world over (I ony have to take the reaction to the possible terrorist atacks which has resultedin you not being able to take a bottle of pure water on board an aircraft) The majority has to pay for the mistakes of a few.

The rules are extra simple but we need to provide extra documents for the few who abuse the system

Cheers

thanks for all your help guys

seems i only have to prove my pension and balance is available on application

but have to have that amount in a thai bank for renewal

does anyone know for sure which is the best thai bank

to open an account with i e bank charges and ease of use

[Krub]

thanks for all your help guys

seems i only have to prove my pension and balance is available on application

but have to have that amount in a thai bank for renewal

does anyone know for sure which is the best thai bank

to open an account with i e bank charges and ease of use

Choose a bank that will be nearest to where you live, they offer all nearly the same services.

If you want internet banking Siam Commercial Bank, Kasikorn and Krung Thai are user friendly

[Lance_A_Lot]

National Police Office Order

No. 606/2006

Para 7.21

“Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application.”

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________

OK ... now is the official regulation for the initial visa, or for extending it?

[lopburi3]

For extensions of stay.

[lopburi3]

Following on from from recent postings on this thread about the advantages of the income method, there's a question which I haven't seen answered elsewhere (and I'll raise it here rather than start a new thread).

Seeing that a foreign married couple, subject to marriage documentation and the other usual conditions, can generally get their 12 month retirement extensions on the basis of one sum of 800k in a joint-name account, can they also combine their individual pensions into one amount for the purpose of reaching or coming closer to the alternative annual 800k pension income qualification? This would seem logical, if they are allowed to count as a single household unit for the bank balance method? Has anybody tried this? Or is the income qualification applied strictly to each individual?

Have not seen any post that combined pensions have been accepted - as Embassy letter is issued to a passport rather than a family that would probably prevent it happening. At first glance it may seem logical to use this method as family uses combined income - but at second glance the family income only provides for one extension; as spouse is Thai. The 65k method will provide both applicant and dependent one year extensions of stay and the option is still there to combine with a bank account if neither has income to meet the requirement.

[ProThaiExpat]

Lance_A_Lot: Good question. Lopburi3 is correct, however, the unasked issue is if your obtaining a non-imm-O visa in Thailand from a tourist visa or entry permit based on retirement.

My experience, having done it twice, is that the review of your non-imm-0 application and attendant documents is as thorough as any retirement extension as this visa is being granted in Thailand based on your intended purpose of retiring here. Thus you must have all the documents needed to satisfy a retirement extension when applying for the non-imm-O.

Those who have non-imm-O visas issued abroad for whatever reason must, of course, provide full retirement extension documentation when they apply for a retirement extension of their existing non-imm-O, perhaps based on other than retirement rationale.

My first go around in BKK f five years ago in applying for a change of visa status to non-imm-O from a tourist visa involved not only the standard bank letter, but a letter from the bank's wire office documenting the country of origin of the wire transfer, the institution originating the transfer, the amount and the time and day of the transfer. Fortunately, the wire transfer office of Bangkok Bank was a quick cab drive away, and with a little time, this "additional" requirement was satisfied after my first encounter with my processing officer.

Upon my return to him, he advised that the wire transfer letter was not sufficient, that he needed something else, despite my writing down in English and my Thai companion writing in Thai what he wanted originally. Fortunately, I had ingratiated myself with the officer by appearance and manner such that he volunteered to obtain the additional requirement from the bank by fax!!!! By the way, there were two senior officers sitting in the same office with my solo processing officer with nothing on their desks and doing absolutely nothing on both visits to that office. By the way, I was required to wait 30 days before returning to BKK to get my visa. Fortunately the extension of that visa was obtainable from Chiang Mai and was possible after another 60 days.

This spring, the whole process was done in Chiang Mai in one visit for the non-imm-O without wire transfer requirements and one visit for the extension without wire transfer requirements. The difference in treatment may have been because the first time I went the 800K baht route and the second the pension + route.

[RichardEllis]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

I doubt anyone would try that. No such thing as such a small pension, get real.

But I will tell you one thing that isn't clever at all. The 3 month rule is just designed so that their people don't have to think. For the majority of people using the bank account method, they spend down during the year, and top it up before the extension. This pattern could be seen by a 10 year old looking at a bank book. Don't act like someone topping up before a meeting is committing any kind of abuse. That is buying into their questionable logic. It isn't abusive. Borrowing money for a few days would be abuse, granted. So how many people are being hassled with an onerous rule because of a few shirkers?

Hey, why stop at 3 months? How about 9 months? If 3 months supposedly solves their issue, wouldn't more months work even better?

A good point, which goes to my earlier comment about legislation and loopholes. It isn't climbing down a loophole to satisfy legislative requirements in ways other than were envisaged by lazy and incompetent drafters. Neither is it a reasonable solution to bring in yet more draconian requirements in order to stop people from satisfying those requirements, rather than address the laziness and incompetence which actually caused the problem.

I know it isn't politically correct to say this and it will doubtless offend some of the 'stars in the eyes' folk out there, but most thinking westerners know that Thailand has separate and distinct Jekyll and Hyde aspects.

While many people in Thailand are wonderful and welcoming, those in power (the ruling elite) are paranoid about foreigners coming here and 'buying up the country'. I saw someone opine a while ago that Thai business flourishes only on exploitation of labour, and that if they had to pay the same kind of wages bills that western companies pay, they would probably go out of business. Western business people (who are assumed to be able to make successful businesses without exploitation) strike a completely unjustified fear into the hearts of Thai ruling classes. Hence the draconian visa situation and the proposed changes to the FBA. They fear being exploited and instead strive to maintain the status quo, in which it is them doing the exploiting - of their own countrymen and women.

There are 2 issues which Thailand would dearly like to resolve, which visa restrictions and foreign business legislation are intended to help. Firstly the entry of 'undesirables' into the country, by which is meant sex-retirees and sex-tourists. Yet Thailand has the means to resolve this simply by making Thailand less attractive to these people. They wont because politicians, judges and prominent business people make good money from the profits of the sex industry, it is simply convenient to blame the consumer rather than the supplier. Don't get me wrong, I have no time for these people, but they are consuming a product which Thailand knowingly, and by design, provides.

Secondly, the spread of foreign business in Thailand, notably (but not exclusively) the superstores, which the Thai elite believes is caused by letting foreign businessmen unbridled access to the Thai cash cow. Thai people flock to these stores because they offer better value and better service than traditional Thai stores. Yet the foreigners are again blamed - this time for putting 'Ma and Pa' business out of business. Again, the solution lies within the grasp of Thais themselves. Improve prices and service. In this case, the supplier is blamed and not the consumer, yet the stores thrive on business from Thais, not from foreigners, look at Carrefour or Lotus any day and see who shops there. Adapt, improve or die is the commercial ethic which explains why Superstores put small business out of business the world over. It is a commercial thing that the Thai ruling elite doesnt understand or even recognise because of their overwhelming xenophobia and fear.

Let us not forget that for the Thai elite, Thailand is just a huge private ATM. They fear Johnny Foreigner will take away their cards.

Conclusion? The visa and business restrictions here are not going to change any time soon. First must come a sea-change in attitude by the elite in Thailand. Until then, the real Thais will continue to be exploited by the corrupt and dishonest elite, and foreigners will continue to be scapegoats for Thai laziness and incompetence. Among its many wonderful people, there are also a huge number of corrupt, lazy and dishonest politicians, judges, police, and government officers. Corruption and patronage are rife and even while some are trying to prosecute Thailands unfavoured sons and daughters for their crimes, there are new examples every day which support the notion that corruption and dishonesty are endemic, a part of the culture which is not actually seen as diseases, but as the normal mode of business. The real Thais are suppressed and patronised to ensure they cannot endanger the status quo. The elite tell them what to watch on their TV, what to view on their computers, what to wear, and through propaganda, what to think.

Like it or leave it..., but understand it. Personally I understand it and still stay. Because Thailand is, imho, one of the few corners of paradise still left on this earth. But the future of Thailand is distinctly polarised: either enter the developed world and lose the 'Thais are superior' delusion (which is just armouring), or sink back into introversion and watch as more hungry countries like Vietnam take the money.

I doubt my view will be popular though I believe they are supportable, so I fully expect the flame-throwers to appear.

Rich

Edited August 7, 2007 by RichardEllis

[Krub]

You can see an actual copy of the text in my post #182 aswell as the text in Thai

It only states you need to have the 800K for 3 months prior to application if you go the 800K route not the income route

I wonder how long it will be before some clever farang abuses this system with a 5 baht per month pension and 799,940 baht in the bank, one day before his application.

I doubt anyone would try that. No such thing as such a small pension, get real.

But I will tell you one thing that isn't clever at all. The 3 month rule is just designed so that their people don't have to think. For the majority of people using the bank account method, they spend down during the year, and top it up before the extension. This pattern could be seen by a 10 year old looking at a bank book. Don't act like someone topping up before a meeting is committing any kind of abuse. That is buying into their questionable logic. It isn't abusive. Borrowing money for a few days would be abuse, granted. So how many people are being hassled with an onerous rule because of a few shirkers?

Hey, why stop at 3 months? How about 9 months? If 3 months supposedly solves their issue, wouldn't more months work even better?

A good point, which goes to my earlier comment about legislation and loopholes. It isn't climbing down a loophole to satisfy legislative requirements in ways other than were envisaged by lazy and incompetent drafters. Neither is it a reasonable solution to bring in yet more draconian requirements in order to stop people from satisfying those requirements, rather than address the laziness and incompetence which actually caused the problem.

I know it isn't politically correct to say this and it will doubtless offend some of the 'stars in the eyes' folk out there, but most thinking westerners know that Thailand has separate and distinct Jekyll and Hyde aspects.

While many people in Thailand are wonderful and welcoming, those in power (the ruling elite) are paranoid about foreigners coming here and 'buying up the country'. I saw someone opine a while ago that Thai business flourishes only on exploitation of labour, and that if they had to pay the same kind of wages bills that western companies pay, they would probably go out of business. Western business people (who are assumed to be able to make successful businesses without exploitation) strike a completely unjustified fear into the hearts of Thai ruling classes. Hence the draconian visa situation and the proposed changes to the FBA. They fear being exploited and instead strive to maintain the status quo, in which it is them doing the exploiting - of their own countrymen and women.

There are 2 issues which Thailand would dearly like to resolve, which visa restrictions and foreign business legislation are intended to help. Firstly the entry of 'undesirables' into the country, by which is meant sex-retirees and sex-tourists. Yet Thailand has the means to resolve this simply by making Thailand less attractive to these people. They wont because politicians, judges and prominent business people make good money from the profits of the sex industry, it is simply convenient to blame the consumer rather than the supplier. Don't get me wrong, I have no time for these people, but they are consuming a product which Thailand knowingly, and by design, provides.

Secondly, the spread of foreign business in Thailand, notably (but not exclusively) the superstores, which the Thai elite believes is caused by letting foreign businessmen unbridled access to the Thai cash cow. Thai people flock to these stores because they offer better value and better service than traditional Thai stores. Yet the foreigners are again blamed - this time for putting 'Ma and Pa' business out of business. Again, the solution lies within the grasp of Thais themselves. Improve prices and service. In this case, the supplier is blamed and not the consumer, yet the stores thrive on business from Thais, not from foreigners, look at Carrefour or Lotus any day and see who shops there. Adapt, improve or die is the commercial ethic which explains why Superstores put small business out of business the world over. It is a commercial thing that the Thai ruling elite doesnt understand or even recognise because of their overwhelming xenophobia and fear.

Let us not forget that for the Thai elite, Thailand is just a huge private ATM. They fear Johnny Foreigner will take away their cards.

Conclusion? The visa and business restrictions here are not going to change any time soon. First must come a sea-change in attitude by the elite in Thailand. Until then, the real Thais will continue to be exploited by the corrupt and dishonest elite, and foreigners will continue to be scapegoats for Thai laziness and incompetence. Among its many wonderful people, there are also a huge number of corrupt, lazy and dishonest politicians, judges, police, and government officers. Corruption and patronage are rife and even while some are trying to prosecute Thailands unfavoured sons and daughters for their crimes, there are new examples every day which support the notion that corruption and dishonesty are endemic, a part of the culture which is not actually seen as diseases, but as the normal mode of business. The real Thais are suppressed and patronised to ensure they cannot endanger the status quo. The elite tell them what to watch on their TV, what to view on their computers, what to wear, and through propaganda, what to think.

Like it or leave it..., but understand it. Personally I understand it and still stay. Because Thailand is, imho, one of the few corners of paradise still left on this earth. But the future of Thailand is distinctly polarised: either enter the developed world and lose the 'Thais are superior' delusion (which is just armouring), or sink back into introversion and watch as more hungry countries like Vietnam take the money.

I doubt my view will be popular though I believe they are supportable, so I fully expect the flame-throwers to appear.

Rich

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in

I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

[RichardEllis]

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

Nope. What is unreasonable is the obsessive introduction of new regulations (which will be no better thought out than the old regulations) WITHOUT ADVANCE WARNING.

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in. I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

My turn to see your point, however to compare Thailand with Japan, USA or Europe is hardly reasonable. Thailand fears foreigners because they will buy the ranch and the Thai culture (also the private ATM) will be lost to the ruling classes, who quite like the status quo.

Europe, USA and Japan are attractive to people who want to partake of the social support systems which are almost completely absent in Thailand. It is this which they seek to limit.

Rich