Taxation of foreighners in S/E Asia?

[Grusa]

On 8/15/2024 at 12:20 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Are you suggesting all the Thai government announcements about it are AI generated deep fakes by online trolls?  

For sure, all Thai government announcements are generated by artificial intelligence... by definition.

 

By definition, a lot of  government employees are nothing but trolls.

 

Deep fake? Why bother, we have the real thing!

[ukrules]

46 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

of course, you save a few hundred thousand of dollars on taxes ... but suggesting  to rent a cheap appartment in pp for 10k per year ...

do you take yourself seriously?  😕

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm doing this already so yes, you could say I take myself seriously.

A real 'cheap' apartment in Phnom Penh can be had for a couple of hundred dollars a month,but I wouldn't consider that for myself, it's not suitable for my situation.

 

Mines $700 / month (25k Baht) while here in Phnom Penh, it's a spacious place, about 170 square meters in size (I measured it). 2 bed, 3 bath, just me and the Mrs living in it, decent building in a decent area named 'Toul Prom Pong' aka 'Russian Market'. I use the second bedroom as an office.

Total rent = $8400 a year.

 

You could easily spend $1 to $2k a month on rent here, depends on the area, the building and which floor you're on and how much you tolerate getting ripped off.

 

Very easy to do and anyone can simply purchase a 1 year visa (even if you're under 55) for just under $500 through an agent, took me a few days back in May to get the visa and apartment all sorted out while I was here on my first trip this year back in May.

 

I have to say I quite like it down here as well so I may buy a place at some point, who knows.

Edited August 17 by ukrules

[Danderman123]

On 8/15/2024 at 1:39 PM, Yumthai said:

Easy workaround: do not remit money in your name to any local financial institution.

Great.

 

I will only remit money in the name of my Thai girlfriend.

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, Presnock said:

I personally think that eventually and don't have any idea how long it might take, but countries will change their tax residency so that none can escape paying someplace.  My feelings but 138 countries on this list though enough about non-payment of income taxes to sign on to the agreement - even China and some other odd ones..

I agree. 

 

My home country, Australia, has proposed similar changes to their current 90 year old tax residency laws. 

 

Change to tax residency laws, globally, is inevitable.

 

9 hours ago, Presnock said:

Totally agree, even with the LTR and DTA protecting me both ways - TIT and that all could change tomorrow just like the govt, but since they most likely want more retirees here or weathy people to come here long term, I think that they will grandfather those with certain benefits.  Of course that is wishful thinking on my part but...

As you mentioned, "TIT."  Thailand is a very politicalyl unstable country.  Just look at what's happened this week.  On that basis, everything and anything is a possibility for farang here, when it comes to residing here. 

 

That could be anything from this tax, to the 800k seed money jumping up to 1.2 million, and the 65k jumping up to 80k next year.  Personally, I am surprised both have stayed at 800k and 65k for as long as they have.  As you point out, such an increase would ensure a more wealthy expat living here, or push people onto agents. Eeither way, it's a win win for Thailand / agents in baht. 

 

I accept all opinions regarding this tax, but as I have said, for those who think it will just all go away and nothing will happen in 2025, I'm not onboard.  Just too much easy farang money sitting there, and they know farang expat retirees will pay, because they are too heavily invested in Thailand to walk away.  

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Grusa said:

For sure, all Thai government announcements are generated by artificial intelligence... by definition.

I disagree.  All the Thai government announcements are generated by the desire for MONEY.  

 

4 hours ago, Grusa said:

By definition, a lot of  government employees are nothing but trolls.

No, many are just connected and corrupt. 

 

4 hours ago, Grusa said:

Deep fake? Why bother, we have the real thing!

True, and that "real thing" is coming for your money. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Nemises said:

Yet another good reason to use an agent and not leave 800k in some Thai bank account doing FA. 

I've always used an agent, so no bother for me.

 

My 800k earns more back in my home country than what the agent charges, so why would I bother having 800k baht in a 3rd World Country?  

 

Same with buying a condo here.  For the price of a condo in my building, the exact same money back in my home country earns more than the rent I pay each month. 

 

Why would you put any money into Thailand, especially when they offer no reasonable pathway to permanent residency? 

Edited August 17 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, Everyman said:

 

Individual expats pay more tax than nearly all individual 70 million Thais 

Here's a list of Thailand's 50 wealthiest people. 

 

I'm pretty sure they pay more VAT than about 99.9% of expats, INDIVIDUALLY, of course. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/lists/thailand-billionaires/

[Moti24]

5 hours ago, topt said:

Tax residents - you spend more than a 179 days in a calendar year in Thailand you are officially a tax resident here.

The term "expats"means nothing in this context.

 

Have you read the tax guide? 

 

The word "expats" is just an example, and Yes, I've read the guide.

 

My point is that most residents of Thailand are expats, expats who contribute to the Thai economy.  But, most expats are not working in Thailand, they transfer money from their native countries to fund there life style, money that is already taxed at source.  But TiT, money is the be-all and end-all to the Thai Government.  If they were to grant me permanent residency, I would be happy to pay the tax.  

 

The government has just announced a new Digital Nomad visa, the criteria being that they must work for a company in their home country, and they must be paid into their home country bank.  So, no doubt the Digital Nomads will then pay tax when they transfer the money to Thailand.  

 

Thailand would attract more tourists, expats and businesses if the government actually cared about their visitors and stopped their fixation with the Thai Baht.

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

My point is that most residents of Thailand are expats, expats who contribute to the Thai economy.  But, most expats are not working in Thailand, they transfer money from their native countries to fund there life style, money that is already taxed at source.  But TiT, money is the be-all and end-all to the Thai Government.  If they were to grant me permanent residency, I would be happy to pay the tax.  

Yes, and the price for expats to stay in Thailand has just gone up.

 

If you re prepared to pay, then stay.  If you are not prepared to pay, then stay less than 180 days per calendar year, or leave.

 

Expats have no rights here.  That retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 1 year tourist visa. 

 

The Thai's say "jump" and you either ask "how high" or look for greener pastures.  Simple. 

[Nemises]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

If you re prepared to pay, then stay.  If you are not prepared to pay, then stay less than 180 days per calendar year, or leave.

…or return to your homeland and bring back cash when required. The cash stays out of your Thai bank allowing you to avoid paying any tax; and live in Thailand for more than 180 days per year. 

[norsurin]

The next is loosing their homes that people purchased thru socalled companies.

Wait and see for the next surprise.

[Henryford]

2 hours ago, norsurin said:

The next is loosing their homes that people purchased thru socalled companies.

Wait and see for the next surprise.

 

Wasn't that illegal from the start, setting up a company solely for the purpose of buying a house.

[norsurin]

8 hours ago, Henryford said:

 

Wasn't that illegal from the start, setting up a company solely for the purpose of buying a house.

Right..im sure something bad will happend to those who bought in good fate.

[chiang mai]

11 hours ago, norsurin said:

The next is loosing their homes that people purchased thru socalled companies.

Wait and see for the next surprise.

That was never legal in the first place. The Land Office doesn't take your home, they give you a couple of months to make alternate ownership arrangements.

[swissie]

Thai "officialdom" has realised, that after an initial "burst of investment" (buying house, car etc etc) for the queen of their hearts, their monthly outlays become relatively modest, compared to what tourists spend.

So, no wonder that some official "Thai-Thinkers" came to the conclusion that Expats should pay more for the privilege to stay in Thailand.

Actually, allowed to stay in Thailand is the ony privilege/right that Expats have in Thailand. This not stopping thousands of elderly Farangs every year to settle in Thailand.

[swissie]

On 8/17/2024 at 11:26 PM, norsurin said:

The next is loosing their homes that people purchased thru socalled companies.

Wait and see for the next surprise.

Will cause a lot of "negative press" in "the west". = Confiscation of property etc etc. They might issue some "Grandfathering rights" for older "Contracts". At the same time declaring, that such "contracts" will no more be allowed as of today.

[ThaiPauly]

On 8/16/2024 at 8:41 AM, Ralf001 said:

 

do you have a Link to 25% car tax for foreigners ?

I dont know if it's true, but I'm not willing to chance it until all becomes clear.

 

What I have read here is that ALL foreign income will be taxed so if I bring in 1m then 20% or 25% would be taxable whatever you spend it on

 

 

[Ralf001]

22 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

I dont know if it's true, but I'm not willing to chance it until all becomes clear.

 

What I have read here is that ALL foreign income will be taxed so if I bring in 1m then 20% or 25% would be taxable whatever you spend it on

 

 

 

There is no 25% tax on vehicles for foreigners.

[ThaiPauly]

5 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

There is no 25% tax on vehicles for foreigners.

How do you know this with absolute certainty?

I do not claim to be any kind of expert on Thai Tax but I was under the impression that WHATEVER money was remitted to Thailand was taxable unless it was for the purchase of a condominium.

 

I wouod be grateful if you could enlighten me ? 😊 thanks 

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

How do you know this with absolute certainty?

I do not claim to be any kind of expert on Thai Tax but I was under the impression that WHATEVER money was remitted to Thailand was taxable unless it was for the purchase of a condominium.

 

I wouod be grateful if you could enlighten me ? 😊 thanks 

 

I, as a foriegner, have purchased numerous new cars in Thailand.

 

There is no "foreigner" tax... I pay the same out the door price as a Thai.

 

what you are babbling on about has nothing to do with buying a car, the tax is on the remittance.... If you spend more than 180days during the calendar year  in country.

 

Edited August 20 by Ralf001

[topt]

5 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

I wouod be grateful if you could enlighten me ? 😊 thanks 

Suggest you start reading, at least the introduction, and it should bring you up to speed -

 

 

[ThaiPauly]

8 hours ago, topt said:

Suggest you start reading, at least the introduction, and it should bring you up to speed -

 

 

O have actually familiarized myself with this

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/17/2024 at 9:26 PM, norsurin said:

The next is loosing their homes that people purchased thru socalled companies.

Wait and see for the next surprise.

That day was always coming, and when it arrives, many will be left holding the can. 

 

The "Thailand for Thai People" nationalistic thing, but hey, everyone else is doing it, so it must be fine.     

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/17/2024 at 11:54 PM, Henryford said:

 

Wasn't that illegal from the start, setting up a company solely for the purpose of buying a house.

Yes. 

 

Also interesting for the company that owns the land condo blocks sit on.  The  extra "x 30 x 30" is not enforceable at Thai law.  

Edited August 21 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/18/2024 at 8:54 AM, chiang mai said:

That was never legal in the first place. The Land Office doesn't take your home, they give you a couple of months to make alternate ownership arrangements.

You mean, a "firesale." 

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:08 PM, swissie said:

Actually, allowed to stay in Thailand is the ony privilege/right that Expats have in Thailand.

It's not a "right" it's a "permission" and one that can be revoked either individually, or on mass, at any time. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:22 PM, swissie said:

Will cause a lot of "negative press" in "the west". = Confiscation of property etc etc. They might issue some "Grandfathering rights" for older "Contracts". At the same time declaring, that such "contracts" will no more be allowed as of today.

Why would catching "foreign criminals" be negative press?  That's the spin they will put on it. 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

You mean, a "firesale." 

No, I mean alternate arrangements. I have two friends who were each given six months to do that, both ended up putting their property in the name of friends who are Thai and then did a superficies to ensure they could remain living there. The way they were detected was their annual company returns that showed no activity for a few years.

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/20/2024 at 12:02 AM, Ralf001 said:

 

There is no 25% tax on vehicles for foreigners.

You are correct, but the money remitted to buy the vehicle, that's different. 

Edited August 21 by KhunHeineken

[topt]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

You are correct, but the money remitted to buy the vehicle, that's different. 

Depends if it comes from savings pre 31/12/2023..............