Do U Ever Feel U Are Banging Your Head Against The Wall?

[chinthee]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

That was a pretty easy assignment. About About 10 non fiction, 30 Thai biographys, about 25 Thai novels, about 30 books about agriculture and horticulture things, another 20 Buddhism books. About 150 more in English about travel and art, with a few poetry volumes mixed in.

My query was obviously partly tongue in cheek. However, I am impressed with your good taste in partners Lannarebirth!

[ratchabuild]

Maybe also that the girls/women you are talking to have limited English language skills.

Many Thais off the internet, never mind on it, have little or no English language skills. A lot of those on the internet are getting help to read and write from friends or from some book that is filled with love quotes or simple sentences so they can communicate with you.

So I would not expect a decent 'in depth' conversation at all.

Added to that, how much does the average Farang know about Asia? I remember being taught about Clive of India etc. at school but most of what I know about asia can be written on a matchbox, so I could not hold an in depth conversation with them about Thailand and Thai history in the same way I would not expect them to talk about European history. Most Thais could not find USA or U.K or Australia on a world map so why would they have great knowledge of such places?

The most 'out of the area' talk I hear is mainly about the bombings in the South or in BKK, the rest is family or very local issues.

So I think you are asking too much from them.

In the west perhaps we believe the illusion that knowing something about politics and economics and the world at large, foreign affairs and history gives us some kind of input and makes us part of the larger policy making. Of course it does nothing of the kind.........Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan to see how far the chattering and input got us. Thais seems rooted more in the present than the possible. They accept that they only have influence on the people they know directly whereas in the west we have opinions on everything. I hate to admit it but I think they have got it right. We talk about world affairs a lot because it makes us feel better but changes nothing.

We are taught to talk because ultimately it takes the heat out of confrontation. Advertisers listen to us, Politicians want our input. Market researches are always on hand so why do we get crap products and services, crap policies and a succession of things we dont want? Reminds me of the line from the Neil Young song........"I ask for this and you're givin me that" At least we can be very articulate about why we fail to achieve any really meaningful change.

[lannarebirth]

Once upon a time in a Kingdom far away, Internet access was restricted to those areas where visitors from strange lands congregated or areas where people of noble or high birth resided, many of these people were educated and knew many things about the world.

But now the internet is available all over the Kingdom and people with a lesser education use them.

Thai schools on a whole do not teach much history outside of Thailand...Certainly they see and hear about current affairs from all over the world now. The education level certainly has bearing...I have been involved with Uni educated High So types who are very knowledgable on world affairs and world history. Your average Thai in the street wont be so well informed or so well versed in English.

But I think it is a bit much of you to expect anyone from a non english speaking background to be as conversant as you in regards to world affairs etc...I could imagine that if you had a conversation with Stephen Hawkings that your expression on occasion would be a blank as the expressions you talk about here....everything in context.

And there you have it. It's all available in the English language and other first world languages. Most of the things we've learned have never even been translated into Thai. That they don't know of it is no surprise.

[gburns57au]

english.....but these people have very good grasp of the english language..its not like they dont understand what is being said..its like they just dont want to discuss it..full stop!

My wife understands a lot of what she hears....but........she doesnt know how to formulate an answer sometimes, so she tends to go quiet.

So I agree with Understanding......they do understand a lot of things....it is you that doesnt.

[chinthee]

I'm still not sold. This is not about how much substantive knowledge Thais have. It's about their culture-wide lack of inquisitiveness, or interest in the world outside their own little world. I stand by my position.

[lannarebirth]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

That was a pretty easy assignment. About About 10 non fiction, 30 Thai biographys, about 25 Thai novels, about 30 books about agriculture and horticulture things, another 20 Buddhism books. About 150 more in English about travel and art, with a few poetry volumes mixed in.

My query was obviously partly tongue in cheek. However, I am impressed with your good taste in partners Lannarebirth!

I'm not saying she's read any of them. Some of the bindings look in exceedingly fine condition.

[donna]

I'm still not sold. This is not about how much substantive knowledge Thais have. It's about their culture-wide lack of inquisitiveness, or interest in the world outside their own little world. I stand by my position.

i have to agree with you chinthee. a certain part of this is related to the language barrier, but of all of my thai friends, i can honestly say i know about three who read a newspaper. others are simply not interested.

[meemiathai]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

That was a pretty easy assignment. About About 10 non fiction, 30 Thai biographys, about 25 Thai novels, about 30 books about agriculture and horticulture things, another 20 Buddhism books. About 150 more in English about travel and art, with a few poetry volumes mixed in.

My query was obviously partly tongue in cheek. However, I am impressed with your good taste in partners Lannarebirth!

I find it a bit offensive. Does that mean I have bad taste then?

[chinthee]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

That was a pretty easy assignment. About About 10 non fiction, 30 Thai biographys, about 25 Thai novels, about 30 books about agriculture and horticulture things, another 20 Buddhism books. About 150 more in English about travel and art, with a few poetry volumes mixed in.

My query was obviously partly tongue in cheek. However, I am impressed with your good taste in partners Lannarebirth!

I find it a bit offensive. Does that mean I have bad taste then?

Meemiathai, hey, nobody said I was the arbiter of good taste! But I have been told on occasion that I taste good.

[gburns57au]

I'm still not sold. This is not about how much substantive knowledge Thais have. It's about their culture-wide lack of inquisitiveness, or interest in the world outside their own little world. I stand by my position.

Really....they all knew about Pauline Hansen and understood what she was on about when she formed her own political party, at that time when they found out I was from Oz it was the first thing they asked about....One Thai lady actually told me about something happening here in Oz that I hadnt heard about and I live here.

They are more knowledgeable, through televison, about current affairs than you think, they have a problem with being able to articulate what they know to a western speaker because they usually dont have the language skills to do that.

Donna, you may not see many reading newspapers....but how many do you see watching the news on the television.

[donna]

Donna, you may not see many reading newspapers....but how many do you see watching the news on the television.

not many. they seem more interested in the crappy soap operas.

BUT i am, of course generalising. i am not, by any stretch of the imagination, saying that all thais are like this.

[mrtoad]

I have to agree with Chintee's original post, although there are some very inquisative people the majority are not really interested in what is happening outside the paramateres of what is on Thai TV. If you are claiming that this is a source of information for current worldwide affairs, I am think you are sadly mistaken.

Personally, it's the individuals choice to wjhat they want to watch, read and discuss.

Having a discussion even with people from your own country is no guarantee of it being open and interesting. I have meant plenty of moronic native speakers who struggle to put a sentence together and think that Thailand is a rival of Tie Rack back in England.

Enjoy your life, share your experiences and realise that not everyone will understand or be able to discuss what you want to, just like you will find on many occasions that you are unable to understand or want to discuss certain things that others talk about.

S#@* now I'm confused.

[WaiWai]

I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

ABSOLUTELY.

At any time of day, in any city of China, you will see people of all ages, but especially the older folk ( many of the younger have succumbed to the opiate of computer games) , squatting and squinting in street restaurants and beneath lamp posts READING the newspapers. Not to say I know much about the quality of those papers, but I can say those poeple are seeking information in a way I have never seen here. The TV will be on, too, but many, many people will ask "foreigners" about the NEWS, and their opinions of it, and the world beyond. The Chinese are still ethnocentric and propagandised, but it seems the Thais have missed the understanding of something the Chinese learnt during harder times.

Much of Thailand appears to be being kept in the Dark Ages for the benefit of obvious power groups. This is not much assisted by the existing "live for now" cultural tendency combined with carefully cultivated nationalism and elitism.

There is little ecouragement of any thought beyond the superficial in educational practice, or general life, so far as I have seen in fact, the reverse seems encouraged. Am I making a criticism of Buddhism there ? I don't know & would be interested in replies from practicing Buddhists.

There is AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE being done about this situation by the powers-that-be for obvious reasons in persons without a whit of altruism who have control of the strings.

What do you all think ? I think the OP's question has touched on many aspects of life foreigners will have experienced here.

Oh - I should have added that change would also go entirely against the personal interests of some foreigners .

Edited August 2, 2007 by WaiWai

[mrtoad]

I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

ABSOLUTELY.

At any time of day, in any city of China, you will see people of all ages, but especially the older folk ( many of the younger have succumbed to the opiate of computer games) , squatting and squinting in street restaurants and beneath lamp posts READING the newspapers. Not to say I know much about the quality of those papers, but I can say those poeple are seeking information in a way I have never seen here. The TV will be on, too, but many, many people will ask "foreigners" about the NEWS, and their opinions of it, and the world beyond. The Chinese are still ethnocentric and propagandised, but it seems the Thais have missed the understanding of something the Chinese learnt during harder times.

Much of Thailand appears to be being kept in the Dark Ages for the benefit of obvious power groups. This is not much assisted by the existing "live for now" cultural tendency combined with carefully cultivated nationalism and elitism.

There is little ecouragement of any thought beyond the superficial in educational practice, or general life, so far as I have seen in fact, the reverse seems encouraged. Am I making a criticism of Buddhism there ? I don't know & would be interested in replies from practicing Buddhists.

There is AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE being done about this situation by the powers-that-be for obvious reasons in persons without a whit of altruism who have control of the strings.

What do you all think ? I think the OP's question has touched on many aspects of life foreigners will have experienced here.

Oh - I should have added that change would also go entirely against the personal interests of some foreigners .

Yes, exactly, but not sure if we can discuss it here. I believe that what you are referring to is called the Mushroom Theory.

Edited August 2, 2007 by mrtoad

[WaiWai]

Yes, exactly, but not sure if we can discuss it here. I believe that what you are referring to is called the Mushroom Theory.

No more than personal observation.

Link or PM ??

[mrtoad]

Mushroom Theory - Keep them in the dark and feed them S$#@

http://www.marketing-intelligence.co.uk/resources/humour.htm

BTW, I think that you have made some very valid points

[gburns57au]

I have to agree with Chintee's original post, although there are some very inquisative people the majority are not really interested in what is happening outside the paramateres of what is on Thai TV. If you are claiming that this is a source of information for current worldwide affairs, I am think you are sadly mistaken.

events that I have seen on Thai TV.....hijacked plane running out of fuel and landing in the sea near a beach, another hijack situation where the Taliban actually ended it, Princess Di's death, Bushfires in 1993 in New South Wales Oz, The tunnel fire in the Alps, The collapse of the gym roof from snow build up in Germany I think, Beslan hostage situation, The footballer? who flew a plane into a building in the US, Quite a number of plane crashes from around the world. I dont watch a lot of TV in Thailand but these are just a few of the world stories I can recall seeing on the TV there. So to say that Thai TV isnt a source of info on world affairs is just ridiculous....I can well understand that someone who doesnt understand or cannot read Thai wouldnt take much interest in the local TV, I can assure you that the Thais do watch more than just Soaps.

Here we go again, I guess I will be told again that I defend Thais because of the affection I have for them by people who classify Thais as being ignorant, racist and violent people.

[mrtoad]

I have to agree with Chintee's original post, although there are some very inquisative people the majority are not really interested in what is happening outside the paramateres of what is on Thai TV. If you are claiming that this is a source of information for current worldwide affairs, I am think you are sadly mistaken.

events that I have seen on Thai TV.....hijacked plane running out of fuel and landing in the sea near a beach, another hijack situation where the Taliban actually ended it, Princess Di's death, Bushfires in 1993 in New South Wales Oz, The tunnel fire in the Alps, The collapse of the gym roof from snow build up in Germany I think, Beslan hostage situation, The footballer? who flew a plane into a building in the US, Quite a number of plane crashes from around the world. I dont watch a lot of TV in Thailand but these are just a few of the world stories I can recall seeing on the TV there. So to say that Thai TV isnt a source of info on world affairs is just ridiculous....I can well understand that someone who doesnt understand or cannot read Thai wouldnt take much interest in the local TV, I can assure you that the Thais do watch more than just Soaps.

Here we go again, I guess I will be told again that I defend Thais because of the affection I have for them by people who classify Thais as being ignorant, racist and violent people.

No, It's not heare we go again. The events you mentioned are what can be classed as major events. Even if you read the Newspapers here, the lack of information available is pretty poor and that's even in the English press. The media here is well controlled hence information is selective. If you want to keep up with world events whilst living in Thailand, where do you go? You use the internet and I am only relaying what Thai friends of mine tell me.

I am not Thai bashing and I also have a lot of affection for Thai people, hence I choose to live here with my Thai wife and our daughter.

[esbobes]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

Look how many trees are cut down to make books. Maybe Thais known everything and they don't have waste trees.

I haven't read a book or a newspaper in 37 years. and I known everything also

Edited August 2, 2007 by esbobes

[WaiWai]

Gburns - that's a sweet picture in your avatar & I am sure we wish you all the best.

You seem to have a strongly positive view of Thais; more strongly positive than I'd have of my own culture (Australian), which is always a reason for reflection.

All the best to you, and to Thais who try to break out of the bubble imposed on them, and to people who may see this process as a positive one.

[mrtoad]

WaiWai, there is certainly a silent minority who realise that they are getting shortchanged, but with the various restrictions in place on commenting on certain things through draconian censorship laws it is very difficult. I hope that in the coming years things will change, and that the mushrooms will be given the light that they deserve without fear of retribution.

I won't say anymore, as I know that I'm going to be skating on very thin ice if I continue.

[gburns57au]

No, It's not heare we go again. The events you mentioned are what can be classed as major events. Even if you read the Newspapers here, the lack of information available is pretty poor and that's even in the English press. The media here is well controlled hence information is selective. If you want to keep up with world events whilst living in Thailand, where do you go? You use the internet and I am only relaying what Thai friends of mine tell me.

I am not Thai bashing and I also have a lot of affection for Thai people, hence I choose to live here with my Thai wife and our daughter.

The events I mentioned are over a 14 year period and were the events that came to mind in about 5 mins while I was typing....I was thinking to try and recall different events from different parts of the world. If I was to think even harder I am sure that I could come up with many more events....of course these were major events in the world...thats what makes World Current Affairs, I dont think a news story about Mrs Thompson's cat stuck up a tree in Scunthorpe would qualify as a news item, even in Oz....

There are people here that, everytime an issue with Thais comes up...they put it down to culture...all Thai men attack in packs so it is in their culture...and now Thai people cant hold a conversation on world affairs in english....so it must be their culture that they arent interested in world affairs or that Thai media is so Thailand driven that they are ignorant of world affairs and it is their culture to be nationalistic and not learn anything about the world outside of Thailand.

What a lot of drivel

[lannarebirth]

WaiWai, there is certainly a silent minority who realise that they are getting shortchanged, but with the various restrictions in place on commenting on certain things through draconian censorship laws it is very difficult. I hope that in the coming years things will change, and that the mushrooms will be given the light that they deserve without fear of retribution.

I won't say anymore, as I know that I'm going to be skating on very thin ice if I continue.

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

[WaiWai]

Hmm, well, we must do as Mr Toad says . Toot, toot !

I would never have described myself as a "political person", but it seems I can't help noticing certain stuff

Do please PM me if there are other sites where this kinda stuff is discussed. 'Cos we know we can't much do it with our Thai colleagues .

[WaiWai]

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

This is where my extremely superficial understanding of Buddhism lets me down.

Can Buddism allow questioning, and work towards change ?

[lannarebirth]

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

This is where my extremely superficial understanding of Buddhism lets me down.

Can Buddism allow questioning, and work towards change ?

Yes, of course it can, but that generally takes place at a personal level.

[gburns57au]

Gburns - that's a sweet picture in your avatar & I am sure we wish you all the best.

You seem to have a strongly positive view of Thais; more strongly positive than I'd have of my own culture (Australian), which is always a reason for reflection.

All the best to you, and to Thais who try to break out of the bubble imposed on them, and to people who may see this process as a positive one.

It seems that I am more positive about Thais than some people who choose to live there...which gives me cause for reflection....But I thank you for your comments and wishes

I gotta admit that I worry about some of our culture too, I had a desert aborigine elder say to me the other day....these young blokes today they think they same like (the word he used here to describe young african americans is not acceptable here) they forget our ways and our traditions....the same could well be said for our Caucasion Aussie youngsters.

[mrtoad]

WaiWai, there is certainly a silent minority who realise that they are getting shortchanged, but with the various restrictions in place on commenting on certain things through draconian censorship laws it is very difficult. I hope that in the coming years things will change, and that the mushrooms will be given the light that they deserve without fear of retribution.

I won't say anymore, as I know that I'm going to be skating on very thin ice if I continue.

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

Oh silly me, I forgot to mention education. Yes, of course thats where it has to start.

[WaiWai]

Yes, of course it can, but that generally takes place at a personal level.

Right ; not on a social level, much

Must go & hope to re-join this discussion soon - has been better than many for a while !

[mrtoad]

There are people here that, everytime an issue with Thais comes up...they put it down to culture...all Thai men attack in packs so it is in their culture...and now Thai people cant hold a conversation on world affairs in english....so it must be their culture that they arent interested in world affairs or that Thai media is so Thailand driven that they are ignorant of world affairs and it is their culture to be nationalistic and not learn anything about the world outside of Thailand.

What a lot of drivel

It seem's to be you that keeps mentioning the bad points. Whats bad in discussing the lack of access to good media sources and information. I didn't mention any of those things - thus, it would be my understanding that you are talking drivel in your misguided belief that everything in the world is okay.

A cat in scunthorpe, who really cares, if you want to use extremeties to defend a poor argument then as they say "up to you".