Do U Ever Feel U Are Banging Your Head Against The Wall?

[WaiWai]

re: the books thing, i just wanted to point out that i often buy books as presents for thai friends and they eat them up!

So that's what's going wrong !

Pass the fish sauce !

[theseveredhead]

just had a conversation with a lady friend of mine (37), married to a french guy. she was REFLECTING upon how she is getting older and has stopped <deleted> around and has set some goals in her life. she has no need for her worthless family and will only focus on husband, daughter and mother/father. she is sorting out all the money problems her family owes her and demand payment.

sort of an intellectual discussion esp since she cannot read thai, only french and a wee bit o' english.

[Ave]

Certainly if Thai were acting too much farang style Thailand would not be the chilled out place that we are now enjoying.

Buddhism should, in theory, encourage change through action if action, thought and deed are wisely conducted. However, it is also true that this religion, in Thaialand in particular, encourages to avoid potentially conflictual conversation.

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

This is where my extremely superficial understanding of Buddhism lets me down.

Can Buddism allow questioning, and work towards change ?

[Ave]

Agree, if this is an issue to the point of discussing it on a thread then one should look at what's going on inside their heart..

Your desire is the source of your suffering. You suffer from yourself. Hope that helps.

[chownah]

Sometimes when I'm alone and thinking about how tough life is and I'm walking around my home I hang my head and notice how funny my toes look and I hit my head against the wall. Sad, very very sad.

[jasreeve17]

Sometimes when I'm alone and thinking about how tough life is and I'm walking around my home I hang my head and notice how funny my toes look and I hit my head against the wall. Sad, very very sad.

You should not make these claims without supporting them with solid proof. Typical of you Chownah.

Photo please, of your toes.

[WaiWai]

In virtually all cases, I find Thai women, with almost no exceptions, to be interested only in Thai issues, mostly worthless Thai TV, Thai history, The King and royalty (of course), Buddhism, the weather in Thailand, food, clothing, mobiles, and little else outside Thailand. Honestly. They don't know or care anything about what happens outside the borders of this little country. I've traveled with them, and they never seek out museums or other historic things to do. It's just shopping, eating, and enjoying 5 star hotels.

These are the topics they know to be safe, conversational topics with men. No more is expected. These are the kind of guys who get an instant headache when a woman expresses an opinion.

[a2396]

Certainly if Thai were acting too much farang style Thailand would not be the chilled out place that we are now enjoying.

Buddhism should, in theory, encourage change through action if action, thought and deed are wisely conducted. However, it is also true that this religion, in Thaialand in particular, encourages to avoid potentially conflictual conversation.

If every Thai could become as enlightened as you'd wish, you'd be surrounded by a very large number of very angry Thais. I perceive incremental positive change through greater numbers of Thais receiving more education. I think that's the only safe way forward for Thailand.

This is where my extremely superficial understanding of Buddhism lets me down.

Can Buddism allow questioning, and work towards change ?

"However, it is also true that this religion, in Thaialand in particular, encourages to avoid potentially conflictual conversation."

This helps explain why it is dificult, if not impossible, to get truthfull, meaningfull & progressive dialog out of many of these women. Most of the time you are going around in circles & getting evasive & outright untruthfull responses. It eventually leads to a dead-end relationship.

[meemiathai]

"However, it is also true that this religion, in Thaialand in particular, encourages to avoid potentially conflictual conversation."

This helps explain why it is dificult, if not impossible, to get truthfull, meaningfull & progressive dialog out of many of these women. Most of the time you are going around in circles & getting evasive & outright untruthfull responses. It eventually leads to a dead-end relationship.

I understand what you mean and do not disagree with you. But what leads to a dead-end relationship between farang men and farang women then? There are no relationships which are problem free. You have to work hard on it. For the problems you have mentioned of the thai women, you can actually patiently try leading them to behave differently. Of course with good technique. My wife has changed a lot after being with me.

[Ave]

You are luckier than me! As a farang woman with a Thai man (only talking about my previous experience, not everybody's) I'd get a jokingly menacing look and a loud "stop raving!".. Saying that, we had many interesting conversations about Buddhism, philosophy and world history although his English is not proficient.

I can understand more than before of what Thai people talk about with each other and some of it can be quite abstract and deep too. But they wouldn't try to engage in similar conversations with me because they think it'd be difficult to get the meaning across in either languages. In the whole I find Thai men easier and more interesting to talk to than Thai women.

Sometimes it really depends on how you approach the subject and what kind of vocabulary you use.

I discovered that Thai students are hardly ever encouraged to express an opinion, especially up to secondary school, I don't know about uni. So, that probably explains one thing or two..

Thai Buddhism should explain even more.

In virtually all cases, I find Thai women, with almost no exceptions, to be interested only in Thai issues, mostly worthless Thai TV, Thai history, The King and royalty (of course), Buddhism, the weather in Thailand, food, clothing, mobiles, and little else outside Thailand. Honestly. They don't know or care anything about what happens outside the borders of this little country. I've traveled with them, and they never seek out museums or other historic things to do. It's just shopping, eating, and enjoying 5 star hotels.

These are the topics they know to be safe, conversational topics with men. No more is expected. These are the kind of guys who get an instant headache when a woman expresses an opinion.

[WaiWai]

QUOTE(WaiWai @ 2007-08-04 21:15:12)

In virtually all cases, I find Thai women, with almost no exceptions, to be interested only in Thai issues, mostly worthless Thai TV, Thai history, The King and royalty (of course), Buddhism, the weather in Thailand, food, clothing, mobiles, and little else outside Thailand. Honestly. They don't know or care anything about what happens outside the borders of this little country. I've traveled with them, and they never seek out museums or other historic things to do. It's just shopping, eating, and enjoying 5 star hotels.

These are the topics they know to be safe, conversational topics with men. No more is expected. These are the kind of guys who get an instant headache when a woman expresses an opinion.

Somehow I managed to delete part of that message so it is incomplete.

I was really responding to what meemaithai said & I wanted to say that Thai women are not exactly encouraged to express opinions about more serious issues, particularly to men. If a man shows he is interested in her opinions, this could change.

--------------------

Edited August 5, 2007 by WaiWai

[chinthee]

I think you guys are digging WAY too deep for an answer to this. They just plain and simple are not interested. Get it? It's not because they're repressed, taught not to question at school, or anything else. They would all rather watch Galamae & the other vapid woman to woman gals on weekday TV than talk to you about uninteresting farang stuff.

[WaiWai]

I will have to look up Galamae .

What topics are discussed on these shows ?

[chinthee]

I will have to look up Galamae .

What topics are discussed on these shows ?

Here you go. She's the sexy one on the right with the BIG mouth, she never shuts up. I pity the man who marries her. Subject discussed? Breast implants, cheating husbands, botox injections...um, what else?

[WaiWai]

I will have to look up Galamae .

What topics are discussed on these shows ?

Here you go. She's the sexy one on the right with the BIG mouth, she never shuts up. I pity the man who marries her. Subject discussed? Breast implants, cheating husbands, botox injections...um, what else?

Thanks.

(You are quite knowledgeable about this, chinthee .)

[chinthee]

I will have to look up Galamae .

What topics are discussed on these shows ?

Here you go. She's the sexy one on the right with the BIG mouth, she never shuts up. I pity the man who marries her. Subject discussed? Breast implants, cheating husbands, botox injections...um, what else?

Thanks.

(You are quite knowledgeable about this, chinthee .)

I have secret fantasies about being tongue-lashed by her, and I mean verbally. Actually, I have that pic because I put it as a joke in another place called Bedl*m on the sexy woman thread.

[WaiWai]

Admit it, you have a secret obsession with discussions about adultery, breast implants & botox, which you have always been excluded from !

[Andrew Hicks]

I just wonder how difficult is it to have a normal conversation with thai people.If u ever go deeper in your thoughts or discussions you are left with a blank stare or on the internet its usually ...1 i have no idea 2 whatever 3 hehe laugh = i dont know confused? why do most of the girls i know on the net use these exact words..? are they taught in school if farang ask u difficult question say this!

My point is i talk with some thai girls on the net and i really do wonder do have a brain or do they use it?

example..1 girl ..our country is the best (they really know nothing about other countrys in the world, but why would they, THAILAND is the best) we have no war and no cold weather like u.....sorry where in western europe is the war? and do u know the 3 provinces in the south of thailand last i heard that was like a war!

now thats just 1 example i have many more, where it seems these people know nothing about what happens in the rest of the world.

Of course there is many intelligent thai people but there seems to be many who just dont use their brain or only care about thailand.

I've done some empirical research into whether Thai people know who Hitler is or was. Well, many of them don't. Funny that. Unless they've seen a movie, they've often never heard of the guy..

They don't know what's so funny about my 'B52' brand mosquito net either or why I laugh at the cap they're wearing which says CIA on it. All of which research I've written up as a blog because I find it intriguing that Thais sometimes seem so isolated from the world.

I've lived for three years in a mud nouse in West Africa and there they were much more clued up about the politics of the world and about their own politics. I've yet to work out my own theories of why, but it is somehow seems a 'middle kingdom' attitude in which the world revolves around them and they are always looking inwards... unless of course they want an Isuzu D Max or whatever.

I'm surprised they say he-he though as in Thai this means pussy-pussy... if you know what I mean.

My own experiece of Thai women around me, not least of all my wife is that they're pretty bright, but perhaps on the internet they're careful not to seem too bright,dumbing themselves down for you a bit, like I do on Thaivisa.

And a final serious point, surely one has to compare them with Sharon from Southend and other similar provincial lasses from around the world to see how they rate. as a mature and intelligent man, perhaps you're expecting too much.

Wotcher want'em intelligent for anyway?!!

Andrew Hicks

[ratchabuild]

I just wonder how difficult is it to have a normal conversation with thai people.If u ever go deeper in your thoughts or discussions you are left with a blank stare or on the internet its usually ...1 i have no idea 2 whatever 3 hehe laugh = i dont know confused? why do most of the girls i know on the net use these exact words..? are they taught in school if farang ask u difficult question say this!

My point is i talk with some thai girls on the net and i really do wonder do have a brain or do they use it?

example..1 girl ..our country is the best (they really know nothing about other countrys in the world, but why would they, THAILAND is the best) we have no war and no cold weather like u.....sorry where in western europe is the war? and do u know the 3 provinces in the south of thailand last i heard that was like a war!

now thats just 1 example i have many more, where it seems these people know nothing about what happens in the rest of the world.

Of course there is many intelligent thai people but there seems to be many who just dont use their brain or only care about thailand.

I've done some empirical research into whether Thai people know who Hitler is or was. Well, many of them don't. Funny that. Unless they've seen a movie, they've often never heard of the guy..

They don't know what's so funny about my 'B52' brand mosquito net either or why I laugh at the cap they're wearing which says CIA on it. All of which research I've written up as a blog because I find it intriguing that Thais sometimes seem so isolated from the world.

I've lived for three years in a mud nouse in West Africa and there they were much more clued up about the politics of the world and about their own politics. I've yet to work out my own theories of why, but it is somehow seems a 'middle kingdom' attitude in which the world revolves around them and they are always looking inwards... unless of course they want an Isuzu D Max or whatever.

I'm surprised they say he-he though as in Thai this means pussy-pussy... if you know what I mean.

My own experiece of Thai women around me, not least of all my wife is that they're pretty bright, but perhaps on the internet they're careful not to seem too bright,dumbing themselves down for you a bit, like I do on Thaivisa.

And a final serious point, surely one has to compare them with Sharon from Southend and other similar provincial lasses from around the world to see how they rate. as a mature and intelligent man, perhaps you're expecting too much.

Wotcher want'em intelligent for anyway?!!

Andrew Hicks

There's an interesting thread on the bar girls own section of TV asking if a bargirl has ever had a conversation with a Brit that wasn't about Beer, football or shagging. A Yank about themselves and how they have everything Thailand has back home bigger and that includes the women. Or an Aussie about opera and theatre......ok I was joking about the last one.

Edited August 5, 2007 by ratchabuild

[samran]

And a final serious point, surely one has to compare them with Sharon from Southend and other similar provincial lasses from around the world to see how they rate. as a mature and intelligent man, perhaps you're expecting too much.

Wotcher want'em intelligent for anyway?!!

Andrew Hicks

Exactly. For most people (including me) - anywhere on this globe of ours- the world doesn't extend very far beyond what they do on a day to day basis. We are a product of our envioronments and if we come from different places, sometimes we have very little common ground when it comes to issues of popular culture.

It frustrates the hel_l out of me when I go back to OZ for Christmas to see that people are only interested their little patch of the world. It must frustrate the hel_l out of others back home that I yabber on about Thailand...and it has absolutely nothing with them.

[WaiWai]

There's an interesting thread on the bar girls own section of TV

There's a section here for bar girls ??

[mrtoad]

There's an interesting thread on the bar girls own section of TV

There's a section here for bar girls ??

It's in the farming section, something about Sick Buffalo Rescue

[elkangorito]

Much of Thailand appears to be being kept in the Dark Ages for the benefit of obvious power groups. This is not much assisted by the existing "live for now" cultural tendency combined with carefully cultivated nationalism and elitism.

This is getting closer to the real truth...but this kind of truth is not only restricted to Thailand. Most moral/religion based cultures use guilt & therefore emotional blackmail to maintain the power base in its required level of luxury. Thais are victims of their own self limiting egotistical program. I do not accept the fact that these people are 'really' happy living like this as I have known many Thais who have 'escaped' Thailand & now live in Australia. After knowing these people for 6 months or so, the barriers eventually come down & they tell you that the 'real' reason why they are in Australia is to escape the oppressive mum & dad or the oppressive culture. At this point I tell them that they have simply moved from one 'control freak' culture to a country that has no culture but is full of control freaks.

One of my mates once said, "Nothing gets in or out of Thailand". He was talking about news. I agree with this.

At school every morning, the children are subject to 20 - 45 minutes of some Thai teacher droning on about 'god knows what'. I recently found out that most of the time, these dronings are about the same thing - how Thais SHOULD behave, how Thais SHOULD dress, SHOULD talk/walk/act etc. No wonder these people seem unstimulating...their minds have been numbed by the constant torture of moral/religious/cultural repetition.

The only things that Thais are serious about is about not being serious. How many times have you been talking with a Thai & gotten the teeniest bit serious & all of a sudden he/she quite seriously blurts out, "Don't be too serious"? This happens frequently to me if I stray into the early fog of seriousness, let alone the blizzard.

Anyway, apart from my personal observations, with which some of you will no doubt disagree (as you are entitled) & as another poster said, 'living here is easy on the brain'...this is very true. If I want brain exercise, I use Thaivisa or find a pom with whom I can debate. I no longer expect any comments from a Thai that stems from any real depth of thought. Nor do I care if they think I'm serious or not. As with myself, they are free to befriend or ignore who they please.

BTW, I have one Thai friend who is more than happy to get a bit serious or deep. Mind you, he & his wife lived in Australia for many years. He also does not do the 'loss of face' thing because he thinks it's a silly waste of time. He ignores other Thais who try to do it to him. As a consequence, the friends he has are his 'real' friends & not 'hangers-oners'.

[A_Traveller]

There's an interesting thread on the bar girls own section of TV

There's a section here for bar girls ??

It's in the farming section, something about Sick Buffalo Rescue

Now that should get a 'quote of the day' or at least 'laugh of the day'.

Regards toot toot!

[uptou]

i'd be interested to hear from tv members who speak fluent thai,about this subject,rather than the rest of us who scrape by with our tinglish,& draw our conclusions about thais wanting to know us from their subjects of conversation.

i used to go to the canary islands alot a few years back.i always felt abit sorry for the locals.like us engish had invaded the place for our own amusement.they seemed no different than the thais in the sense that they seemed basically (at least on the surface) indifferent to us.

[Tinkelbell]

I thin the OP is asking alot of people he has just met very casually. And making some very broad generalizations based on his own limited experience.

Very few Thai people I know are willing to engage in a serious discussion (political etc) with someone they barely know. IME, these conversations are limited to peers, that they have known for many years. Its not unusual (either in the distant past and not so distant past) for people to be arrested or murdered for their beliefs. Why should they trust some farang they are chatting to on the Net?

sbk, well said. What you said was very trueful.

Thanks for acting as a mouthpiece for us.

Tinkelbell

[Tinkelbell]

I'll give one personal example. On the historic 9/11, I was sitting in my Phuket home with my then Thai girlfriend watching in real time the horrific events in New York on CNN/BBC, etc.. I was frantically calling friends who worked on Wall Street, etc.. Of course my Thai GF was initially horrified like everyone else. That lasted not long.

I had to run out for something quickly, and when I returned, I found her watching Thai soaps, or something similar. In the following days, when I tried to discuss the tragedy with her, she would usually turn the topic to Muslim insurgency in the south, or other such things.

Generally, she had the interest and attention span of a mule regarding foreign events, even tragic in mass proportions, yet, she would ask me daily to check the Phuket Gazette for what was happening locally each day. She was educated, not a BG.

She read English, and I had the internet available all the time. She never got on any website that wasn't in Thailand. She showed no interest in events or news outside Thailand unless they had to do with more tourists coming to Phuket or something.

I hope you're not with her anymore.

You two make an odd couple for sure.

[qwertz]

If you look for bimbos for company, you're sure to find them.

Why shouldn't Thailand have some too?

BTW, I often find on the bar scene that many of the girls are more intelligent and certainly less inebriated than a good portion of the clientèle.

The girls in tourist spots aren't exactly intellectually challenged by their milieu.

As for the others - men, you've just got to face facts - women have a different agenda from us, regardless of nationality.

[Tinkelbell]

I just wonder how difficult is it to have a normal conversation with thai people.If u ever go deeper in your thoughts or discussions you are left with a blank stare or on the internet its usually ...1 i have no idea 2 whatever 3 hehe laugh = i dont know confused? why do most of the girls i know on the net use these exact words..? are they taught in school if farang ask u difficult question say this!

My point is i talk with some thai girls on the net and i really do wonder do have a brain or do they use it?

example..1 girl ..our country is the best (they really know nothing about other countrys in the world, but why would they, THAILAND is the best) we have no war and no cold weather like u.....sorry where in western europe is the war? and do u know the 3 provinces in the south of thailand last i heard that was like a war!

now thats just 1 example i have many more, where it seems these people know nothing about what happens in the rest of the world.

Of course there is many intelligent thai people but there seems to be many who just dont use their brain or only care about thailand.

I've done some empirical research into whether Thai people know who Hitler is or was. Well, many of them don't. Funny that. Unless they've seen a movie, they've often never heard of the guy..

They don't know what's so funny about my 'B52' brand mosquito net either or why I laugh at the cap they're wearing which says CIA on it. All of which research I've written up as a blog because I find it intriguing that Thais sometimes seem so isolated from the world.

I've lived for three years in a mud nouse in West Africa and there they were much more clued up about the politics of the world and about their own politics. I've yet to work out my own theories of why, but it is somehow seems a 'middle kingdom' attitude in which the world revolves around them and they are always looking inwards... unless of course they want an Isuzu D Max or whatever.

I'm surprised they say he-he though as in Thai this means pussy-pussy... if you know what I mean.

My own experiece of Thai women around me, not least of all my wife is that they're pretty bright, but perhaps on the internet they're careful not to seem too bright,dumbing themselves down for you a bit, like I do on Thaivisa.

And a final serious point, surely one has to compare them with Sharon from Southend and other similar provincial lasses from around the world to see how they rate. as a mature and intelligent man, perhaps you're expecting too much.

Wotcher want'em intelligent for anyway?!!

Andrew Hicks

Of course, your friends would not know about Hitler, Einstein, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Napole'on, George Washington.... until they get to univ. that where they have to take one of the requirement courses -'Western Civilization' in their freshman year. Then again, there are some smart souls out there who know most of the world historic events long before seting their feet on a campus, by reading or follow up interesting news from media.

Maybe you'd like to changed the avenue of doing your thing, better yet go where they congragate-campuses.

The stuffs like...CIA, B52 or even Bin Ladan T-shirt do not drawing a laughter from me, I only feel pity on those girls. Ignorance is not a bliss!

[rychrde]

Interesting thread, lots of different things spring to mind so best go through them slowly!

One thing that hasn't been mentioned about the so-called lack of curiosity shown by most Thais is what experience do they have outside of Thailand. How many countries have each of us reading this been to? Compare that to your average Thai. The Thais I've met who have been abroad seem far happier to discuss issues in general, and even compare Thailand with other countries - very often unfavourably towards Thailand I must add. This does not mean they will follow global news on a daily basis - shit, I don't! - but they are not stuck in that single narrow provincial view.

Talking of provincialism, I experienced the same thing in rural England. Some people in the village I lived thought that they needed a passport to go to London! I onced told a guy that my family was spread over 3 countries. He was horrified and couldn't comprehend being that far away from his family and friends. Same myopic view of the world.

Back to Thais, I do sometimes have conversations with the men in the village here near Sakaeo. The older guys have been around, usually for work, and can talk about the history they have experienced. Indeed they are always shocked and pleased that I know things like the Khmer Deng, Pol Pot, Vietnam, even more so that I have a fair grasp of the history of this region with its ebb and flow of Thais and Khmer. Unfortunately I still need my wife to translate most of it, so am sure a lot really does get lost in translation. Even politics is no longer out of bounds, at least not around the family table. Their increasing hatred of the current junta is only matched by their feeling of impotence. And their reaction to this is for the extended family to help each other. It seems that loneliness and isolation would kill the average Thai. They like to breathe as one organism. This seems both their strength and their weakness. It makes me understand my wife more, when she used to infuriate me with her whining about going to visit home when we lived far away. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the first step in changing anything is to understand what the starting point is.

I have even made a little progress on this. My wife is now keen on us to get back on the road and explore more of Thailand and Cambodia. We have been to many places she had previously only ever seen on tv. She has even read Rattanakosin poetry! One of those lucky book finds in a market, Anthology of ASEAN Literatures, which is written in both Thai and English. She still watches soaps but only if they happen to be on. Rome wasn't built in a day, huh!

paleo

rych