I'm planning to stay in Thailand over 6 months. Would Thai government try to tax me?

[ppatrick]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

In practise, a person over aged 65 years, married and importing pension income, can expect to remit over 500k baht per year, before they begin to pay tax.

Thanks for the info. Did you mean that say that a person over 65 yo, married and importing pension income, can expect to remit UP TO 500K baht per year before being taxed?

[Lorry]

Just now, ppatrick said:

Do we know for sure that 5K won't be taxed? I thought someone just brought that up as a example.

In theory,  not sure - in practice, I wouldn't worry.

Depends on many things,  as @chiang maisaid.  Read the linked pinned tax-thread. Check, how much is tax-free for you. 

 

 

[CallumWK]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

they said they want to change it so they can tax your global income after 180 days which is how a lot of countries operate

 

Can you name that LOT of countries that tax worldwide income? I can think of 3, maybe I missed 1 or 2

[ppatrick]

1 hour ago, novacova said:

The op has nothing to be concerned about unless they are generating income in TH.

Thanks for bringing this point up. I don't have income in Thai Baht. I will bring money from my home country for living expense. I don't plan and cannot work in Thailand. It's just the over 180 day stay that concerns me.

[Lorry]

2 minutes ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for the info. Did you mean that say that a person over 65 yo, married and importing pension income, can expect to remit UP TO 500K baht per year before being taxed?

Yes, afaik (60,000 personal allowance for you,  60,000 for  wife, 190,000 over 65, 100,000 expenses, 150,000 tax bracket 0%)

Actually,  I have no idea whether the wife has to be a tax resident ???

[Lorry]

1 minute ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for bringing this point up. I don't have income in Thai Baht. I will bring money from my home country for living expense. I don't plan and cannot work in Thailand. It's just the over 180 day stay that concerns me.

It doesn't matter if you have no income in Thai baht.

This only matters if you stay less than 180 days.

[ppatrick]

20 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I spend 179 days in Thailand,  not 181. Yes, they can and sometimes do count days from the immigration stamps. 

Thanks for sharing. That's really nice to know. Since you cut it very close to 181 days, did the immigration officer actually flipped through your passport pages to count days?

 

To answer your question, I plan to bring in around USD5000. That's enough for my 4 month stay. I'm very curious to know whether that amount is considered "trivial".

[ppatrick]

28 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I'm not aware of any enforcement on 90 day reports

Thanks for your reply. What's 90 day report? Did you mean 180 days? I'm pretty sure that we don't have to pay tax unless we stay longer than 180 days, not 90 days.

[ppatrick]

23 minutes ago, Lorry said:

If, however,  he plans to spend more and more time here, possibly settle down in a couple of years,   he may sooner or later meet the TRD - a d then a clean start would be good.

Good point. I've been visiting Thailand for many years (just never stay longer than 180 days) and there is a possibility that I would settle down there in the future (6 months in Thailand and 6 months in my home country). So, I would definitely play by their rules. If staying longer than 180 days this year would make me a tax resident for a mere USD5000, perhaps I should cut my stay to be under 180 days to eliminate all potential headache. 

[ppatrick]

19 minutes ago, Lorry said:

afaik (60,000 personal allowance for you,  60,000 for  wife, 190,000 over 65, 100,000 expenses, 150,000 tax bracket 0%)

Thanks for the actual numbers. My plan to bring USD5,000 will exceed the 60,000 Baht limit then. Hmm...

 

Honestly even if my tax bracket is 0%, I don't want to get involved with filing tax paper with the Thai government. Being in their tax record this year could get them to expect me to pay next years to come. 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, ppatrick said:

did the immigration officer actually flipped through your passport pages to count days?

Not the immigration officer,  but the tax official.

He didn't flip through the passport,  I had to give him copies of my passport,

and he counted the days.

180 days in a calendar year makes you a tax resident. 

 

1 hour ago, ppatrick said:

To answer your question, I plan to bring in around USD5000. That's enough for my 4 month stay. I'm very curious to know whether that amount is considered "trivial".

Depends on how much you brought in January, February, March.

What I mean, is: if you could bring x USD without paying tax, and you bring a bit more,  I cannot imagine you would have problems.

If, for example, you bring 1000 USD more than would be tax-free for you,  you should pay 50 USD tax. I don't think you will go to jail for this 

 

1 hour ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for your reply. What's 90 day report? Did you mean 180 days? I'm pretty sure that we don't have to pay tax unless we stay longer than 180 days, not 90 days.

90days report has nothing to do with taxes. 

Every foreigner who stays in Thailand more than 90 days in a row has to report to immigration,  after 90 days. If he doesn't do this and leaves after eg 150 days,  nothing happens. But if he doesn't do this and has for some reason to go to immigration after eg 150 days, immigration will notice it and fine him 2000B

1 hour ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for the actual numbers. My plan to bring USD5,000 will exceed the 60,000 Baht limit then.

You have to add all the money you brought in the beginning of the year to the money you bring in autumn.

And compare this sum (9000 USD maybe?) to what you can bring without having to pay taxes. The numbers 60,000, 190,000 etc have to be added.

So, if you are  over 65, you don't have to pay tax if you only bring 9,000 USD in this calendar year. 

1 hour ago, ppatrick said:

Being in their tax record this year could get them to expect me to pay next years to come. 

No, they don't expect that.  

[Hummin]

If you travel on tourist visas and exemption I doubt you will face any questions about taxes. You might be questioned by emigration about your purpose of stay, but taxes, nope

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

Can you name that LOT of countries that tax worldwide income? I can think of 3, maybe I missed 1 or 2

 

You're confused, I will explain.

 

Many countries tax on worldwide income regardless of whether it's remitted or not - pretty much every single 'developed western nation' on earth does it this way.

Now the confusion part - they only do this while you remain a resident in the country, if you stay out long enough, which in some cases can be as short as a year depending on the income source then you will lose your tax residency - the key here is keeping out of the country and maintaining non residency.

 

I know what you're alluding to and that's the two exceptions which are the US and Eritrea who tax their citizens worldwide income even if they are not resident - that's the difference here.

If you lose US residency they're still taxing you, there are exemptions which are reasonably generous if you're a normal working guy but if you're doing well and bank a few million they they're gonna get you!

Edited August 23 by ukrules

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for the info. Did you mean that say that a person over 65 yo, married and importing pension income, can expect to remit UP TO 500K baht per year before being taxed?

Correct

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Thanks for your reply. What's 90 day report? Did you mean 180 days? I'm pretty sure that we don't have to pay tax unless we stay longer than 180 days, not 90 days.

I used that simply as an example of things where there is no enforcement, because the poster raised to me that there is no enforcement on tax returns.

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, ppatrick said:

Do we know for sure that 5K won't be taxed? I thought someone just brought that up as a example.

Yes, we know that

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

What is your point 

TM30 is required for change of address.

TM47 is required if staying longer than 90 days in Thailand.

What  bit don't you understand 

My point is that several requirements of Thai bureaucracy are complied with, despite there being no enfirecement,

[anrcaccount]

10 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I have worked for PWC as an audit senior for three years and am formally trained in tax, but modesty prevents me from referring to myself as expert in anything. I have also studied Thai tax and the Thai Revenue Code extensively for nine months so I do know a little about the topic.

 

Another wizard on theory, your posts very similar to the originator of all these threads ML, but you have the same issue in understanding. 

 

There's a wide gap between theory / letter of the law and reality in Thailand, as I am sure you know, but apparently on this topic don't understand.

 

Reality:

 

- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster

-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence

-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand) 

- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax 

-The only expats paying tax are those who either work in Thailand on  Non -B, OR

 

have spent too time studying the revenue code and ruminating via this forum, feel compelled try and comply with something that 99% of the cohort that theoretically may need to comply, don't, and there is no enforcement. 

 

The only way this poster would pay tax is if they did the following:

 

1- Waited until they had spent over 180 days in a year in TH. Then tried to go to their local RD and apply for a Tax ID. they'd probably be denied a couple of times at first as the local RD would say, "are you working in Thailand" , " You have work permit?", poster would say no, then no TIN would be issued. 

 

2- So then this poster would need to pay a 'expat tax' agency to facilitate a TIN issued for them , maybe drop 5-10K THB to get this privilege.

 

3- Sometime after March 31 of the year following the year they spent 180 days here, then work with the 'expat tax' agency to submit a return, using allowances etc to determine if in fact any tax was even payable, dropping more $$ for that service.

 

4- Sometime after that the poster would have the dubious honor and privilege of being one of the 0.1% of expats who voluntarily file a tax return when not working in Thailand - medal issued! 

 

 

 

 

 

[mokwit]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

No. Your post is laughable.

Absolute nonsense.

"Prevented from leaving" 

Provide proof of ridiculous claim.

 

 

This was enforced before. You could not leave without a tax clearance certificate if you had stayed (I assume) more than 180 days.

 

I am not suggesting it will be enforced again, but stating that it has previously been. Thailand got a reputation amongst global experts needed for Thailand's development as "that country that won't let you out without a mountain of paperwork" and they worked elsewhere.

[motdaeng]

24 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Reality:

- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster

-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence

-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand) 

- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax 

 

to anrcaccount: do you have a crystal ball that can predict the future with 100% accuracy?

 

i'm curious to see how this all will work out in a few years. i'm convinced the tax laws will take effect—maybe not right away,

but in the long run, most tax residents will likely be captured by the system and made to pay taxes ...

 

btw: the TRD can force you to pay taxes even after 10 years ... just in any case you think you are "safe" the next few years ...

 

 

[anrcaccount]

1 minute ago, motdaeng said:

 

to anrcaccount: do you have a crystal ball that can predict the future with 100% accuracy?

 

No, I don't, my comments reflect the current reality. If this changes , it changes. Currently, it hasn't changed.

 

1 minute ago, motdaeng said:

i'm curious to see how this all will work out in a few years. i'm convinced the tax laws will take effect—maybe not right away,

but in the long run, most tax residents will likely be captured by the system and made to pay taxes ...

 

Speculation, if it changes,  it changes. 

 

[motdaeng]

35 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

No, I don't, my comments reflect the current reality. If this changes , it changes. Currently, it hasn't changed.

Speculation, if it changes,  it changes. 

 

 

ok, thank you.

 

we may or may not see the enforcement of this tax law as early during next year. but as of today,

no one knows what the TRD will do. however, i don't think this tax law will just go away, especially since

the law manly targets "bigger fish" (thai people and thai companies), and not foreign tax residents like us.

 

everyone can decide for themselves: either play it safe and follow the law, which might mean paying some taxes,

or take the risk and speculate that nothing will happen in the coming years or ever ...

 

just as a reminder: if the tax law is strictly enforced, the tax authority can audit you for up to 10 years. in addition

to the unpaid taxes, you'll also face a nice penalty for not paying them.

 

it's up to you ... and as always "TIT" everything can happen ...

 

Edited August 24 by motdaeng
spelling

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Another wizard on theory, your posts very similar to the originator of all these threads ML, but you have the same issue in understanding. 

 

There's a wide gap between theory / letter of the law and reality in Thailand, as I am sure you know, but apparently on this topic don't understand.

 

Reality:

 

- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster

-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence

-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand) 

- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax 

-The only expats paying tax are those who either work in Thailand on  Non -B, OR

 

have spent too time studying the revenue code and ruminating via this forum, feel compelled try and comply with something that 99% of the cohort that theoretically may need to comply, don't, and there is no enforcement. 

 

The only way this poster would pay tax is if they did the following:

 

1- Waited until they had spent over 180 days in a year in TH. Then tried to go to their local RD and apply for a Tax ID. they'd probably be denied a couple of times at first as the local RD would say, "are you working in Thailand" , " You have work permit?", poster would say no, then no TIN would be issued. 

 

2- So then this poster would need to pay a 'expat tax' agency to facilitate a TIN issued for them , maybe drop 5-10K THB to get this privilege.

 

3- Sometime after March 31 of the year following the year they spent 180 days here, then work with the 'expat tax' agency to submit a return, using allowances etc to determine if in fact any tax was even payable, dropping more $$ for that service.

 

4- Sometime after that the poster would have the dubious honor and privilege of being one of the 0.1% of expats who voluntarily file a tax return when not working in Thailand - medal issued! 

 

 

 

 

 

"- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster".

I haven't suggested they will, I've merely told him what the law is on the subject. Tax law and the Thai law is not theory, it is fact. I have also pointed out very clearly to the poster that practise sometimes differs from the rules.

 

"-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence".

It will depend on several factors, including, any information shared between Immigration and TRD and the amount of money he transfers each year.

 

"-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand)".

I don't understand what this means. Immigration establishes a record of everyone who enters the country, that record stays open until the person leaves. 

 

"- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax". The enforcement issue doesn't have to be proactive, many people will comply with tax law without enforcement, simply because that's what many Westerners do. 

Edited August 24 by chiang mai

[Yumthai]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The enforcement issue doesn't have to be proactive, many people will comply with tax law without enforcement, simply because that's what many Westerners do. 

 

Westerners should definitely stop thinking and acting like westerners while in Thailand (as in many other non-western minded countries).

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I'm not aware of any enforcement on 90 day reports or TM30's but nearly everyone does them!

There are numerous reports of people being find for not doing 90 day reports! That sounds like enforcement to me!

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Another wizard on theory, your posts very similar to the originator of all these threads ML, but you have the same issue in understanding. 

 

There's a wide gap between theory / letter of the law and reality in Thailand, as I am sure you know, but apparently on this topic don't understand.

 

Reality:

 

- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster

-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence

-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand) 

- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax 

-The only expats paying tax are those who either work in Thailand on  Non -B, OR

 

have spent too time studying the revenue code and ruminating via this forum, feel compelled try and comply with something that 99% of the cohort that theoretically may need to comply, don't, and there is no enforcement. 

 

The only way this poster would pay tax is if they did the following:

 

1- Waited until they had spent over 180 days in a year in TH. Then tried to go to their local RD and apply for a Tax ID. they'd probably be denied a couple of times at first as the local RD would say, "are you working in Thailand" , " You have work permit?", poster would say no, then no TIN would be issued. 

 

2- So then this poster would need to pay a 'expat tax' agency to facilitate a TIN issued for them , maybe drop 5-10K THB to get this privilege.

 

3- Sometime after March 31 of the year following the year they spent 180 days here, then work with the 'expat tax' agency to submit a return, using allowances etc to determine if in fact any tax was even payable, dropping more $$ for that service.

 

4- Sometime after that the poster would have the dubious honor and privilege of being one of the 0.1% of expats who voluntarily file a tax return when not working in Thailand - medal issued! 

 

 

 

 

 

I pretty much agree - as of today.

But the regulations have changed.  What makes you so sure enforcement won't change, too? Enforcement going 3-10 years back, of course.

 

Hint 1: for years now, Thailand's tax net has tightened, remember the times where you wouldn't pay withholding tax on interest by opening a new account after receiving 20,000 B of interest? Remember the condo tax? Remember prompt pay?

Hint 2: why would TRD employ all these new tax lawyers? You might answer,  for the same reason they bought those airport bomb scanners. I hope,  you are right. 

[chiang mai]

25 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are numerous reports of people being find for not doing 90 day reports! That sounds like enforcement to me!

That's not enforcement, that's being fined for non-compliance. Enforcement is where the person has to comply, otherwise the penalties are severe, which is why I used the example of the tax clearance certificate.....if you don't file, you don't get a visa and you have to leave, that sort of thing.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Another wizard on theory, your posts very similar to the originator of all these threads ML, but you have the same issue in understanding. 

 

There's a wide gap between theory / letter of the law and reality in Thailand, as I am sure you know, but apparently on this topic don't understand.

 

Reality:

 

- The Thai government will not try to tax this poster

-The TRD will have no idea of this posters existence

-Thai Immigration has no connection with any expats tax status ( excepting those who file via Non B's who work in Thailand) 

- There's no enforcement or cross checking vias entries vis a vis tax 

-The only expats paying tax are those who either work in Thailand on  Non -B, OR

 

have spent too time studying the revenue code and ruminating via this forum, feel compelled try and comply with something that 99% of the cohort that theoretically may need to comply, don't, and there is no enforcement. 

 

The only way this poster would pay tax is if they did the following:

 

1- Waited until they had spent over 180 days in a year in TH. Then tried to go to their local RD and apply for a Tax ID. they'd probably be denied a couple of times at first as the local RD would say, "are you working in Thailand" , " You have work permit?", poster would say no, then no TIN would be issued. 

 

2- So then this poster would need to pay a 'expat tax' agency to facilitate a TIN issued for them , maybe drop 5-10K THB to get this privilege.

 

3- Sometime after March 31 of the year following the year they spent 180 days here, then work with the 'expat tax' agency to submit a return, using allowances etc to determine if in fact any tax was even payable, dropping more $$ for that service.

 

4- Sometime after that the poster would have the dubious honor and privilege of being one of the 0.1% of expats who voluntarily file a tax return when not working in Thailand - medal issued! 

 

 

 

 

 

It's been many years since I did audit and compliance for big business but when I did, the starting point was always the same, what's the law, what do the rules say, those are the first things clients wanted to know. Ask yourself, why do people consult with tax specialists in the first place, it's because they know what the rules are.  Anyone who has been formally trained in tax will say the same thing and use the same starting point. Once you know those things, you have a boundary, within which you can manoeuvre. For whatever reason, on social media, the starting point is, how are the rules enforced, how can I evade, will they catch me, what's the penalties.....you don't know the answers to those questions, until you know what the rules say.

Edited August 24 by chiang mai

[Yumthai]

59 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

everyone can decide for themselves: either play it safe and follow the law, which might mean paying some taxes,

or take the risk and speculate that nothing will happen in the coming years or ever ...

To each their own definition of "play it safe" in Thailand.

 

From experience it's rather keeping low profile and comply only when you are directly individually required by a Thai authority, certainly not willing to prevent proactively inconsistent rules that can change at any time and at the discretion of a random official.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

ROFLOL - it makes me laugh how little people understand about this rule change and yet will argue and die on a hill about their opinions.  I will say this in response to the OP (which is below).

"I've been visiting and staying Thailand every year, normally 3 months of every year, for the last 6-7 years. This year I already did 3 months around the beginning of the year. I'm planning to visit and stay again from September to end of the year. So that would be the total of 7 months for this year. Not sure whether this would trigger the "residency rule" (an individual is considered a resident when staying in a country for 6 months or more) and qualify me to be taxed as a Thai resident. I think it's kind of an international rule, including Thailand. The question is whether Thailand enforce it? Would they check the entry visa (two 90 day visa in my case) and go after people who stay in Thailand more than 6 months out of  a year? Please share your experiences or opinions. Thank you."

 

TECHNICALLY - staying 180+ days in total that means you are a tax resident of Thailand.

REALITY - someone coming and going several times on a tourist Visa is not going to be chased for taxation.

 

Plus remember that is is NOT money remitted into Thailand that is taxable income - it is only Assessable Income. There are lots of complications when it comes to what is Assessable Income in Thailand, and what is Taxable Income, and what Allowances and Deductions each person has.  And all of that is directly impacted by any DTA that Thailand has with the country that the income or earnings was earned in and where it was remitted from. 

 

Short answer to OP - No Taxation Worries IMO.