Trump will go after his perceived enemies

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

 @chiang mai        Here is a copy from 2018 - I think they filled in a little more info in later years but I have never previously heard that anyone could get a refund of tax withheld from bank interest without a TIN.

 

 

 

Many thanks,

 

I think that probably constitutes what I referred to previously as "the short form" that is neither the PND 90 or 91. 

 

I bow to others recall regarding the TIN, I can't remember what the process was.

[topt]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

I bow to others recall regarding the TIN, I can't remember what the process was.

I remember it well as took visits to 2 different offices and they filled in what seemed like 50 pages of paperwork in Thai - most of which was left blank.

At the end of it they printed off a little yellow piece of paper the size of a large credit card with my Tin on it and a few other details.

[Lorry]

37 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Many thanks,

 

I think that probably constitutes what I referred to previously as "the short form" that is neither the PND 90 or 91. 

 

I bow to others recall regarding the TIN, I can't remember what the process was.

My tax office nowadays "fills out" (ie leaves mostly blank) a PND 90 and makes you sign it.

Sometimes they even investigate:

Officer: คุณไม่มีรายได้อื่น

Farang: grunts

 

[JackGats]

One thing I find reassuring in this whole story: Thailand has made it repeatedly clear one is not a tax resident in TH if one stays less than 180 days in Thailand. Few countries are so black-and-white about tax residency status.

[Eudaimonia]

It looks like PwC has updated their website yesterday. The new tax summary for Thailand includes one significant paragraph with vast ramifications:

 

"If a Thai resident earns foreign-sourced income in 2024 and brings it into Thailand in the same year or any subsequent year, they will be subject to PIT on that income, regardless of whether they are resident in Thailand at the time." (emphasis mine)

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/significant-developments

[Lorry]

57 minutes ago, Eudaimonia said:

 

It looks like PwC has updated their website yesterday. The new tax summary for Thailand includes one significant paragraph with vast ramifications:

 

"If a Thai resident earns foreign-sourced income in 2024 and brings it into Thailand in the same year or any subsequent year, they will be subject to PIT on that income, regardless of whether they are resident in Thailand at the time." (emphasis mine)

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/significant-developments

This was to be expected, see the TRD's Q&A

No idea how they will enforce this - tax bills for people who may not be here for years (the only way I can think of would be a WHT on all foreign remittances). Tax bills for remittances from income earned years ago.

 

This seems to become a very hostile tax environment. 

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, Lorry said:

This was to be expected, see the TRD's Q&A

 

Well this is the 'worst case' interpretation, it's what I have been assuming will happen - as in plan for the worst and hope for the best.

The best case scenario would have been that you can earn in any year when you're non tax resident and then remit in a subsequent year when you are tax resident and not be subject to tax on the money earned in a non resident year.

This 'worst case' scenario would simply require non residence in both the year when the investments were liquidated AND the year when they were remitted, could be the same year of course or over multiple years.

I acted accordingly and left the country and plan to remain non resident for at least a few years. Assets have been liquidated but apart from a token amount they will not be remitted in 2024, but I won't be resident for years to come and the dust will have long settled on this matter by then.

 

I definitely made the right decision for me in my circumstances to leave this year, I was going to wait until next year which would have been a big mistake.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by ukrules

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, Eudaimonia said:

"If a Thai resident earns foreign-sourced income in 2024 and brings it into Thailand in the same year or any subsequent year, they will be subject to PIT on that income, regardless of whether they are resident in Thailand at the time."

Practically unenforceable. People who are not tax resident do not file a tax return. People who are tax resident file a tax return for one year at a time (income from the previous year) not several past years income.

Edited 2 hours ago by Yumthai

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Eudaimonia said:

 

It looks like PwC has updated their website yesterday. The new tax summary for Thailand includes one significant paragraph with vast ramifications:

 

"If a Thai resident earns foreign-sourced income in 2024 and brings it into Thailand in the same year or any subsequent year, they will be subject to PIT on that income, regardless of whether they are resident in Thailand at the time." (emphasis mine)

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/significant-developments

The quote refers to Thai resident rather than tax resident, presumably they mean Thai citizen. That would fit well for a Thai citizen, meaning they cannot escape Thai tax by not becoming non tax resident for a year.

[ukrules]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The quote refers to Thai resident rather than tax resident, presumably they mean Thai citizen. That would fit well for a Thai citizen, meaning they cannot escape Thai tax by not becoming non tax resident for a year.

 

The usage of the word resident is a contentious issue as it could mean one of two things.

 

I really do wonder if they mean tax resident, after all the subject of this linked page is tax.
 

[chiang mai]

16 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

The usage of the word resident is a contentious issue as it could mean one of two things.

 

I really do wonder if they mean tax resident, after all the subject of this linked page is tax.
 

People here on visa's are not residents but can be tax residents, and of course, they are not citizens. I'm going with the idea they mean Thai citizen. But not good or clear from PWC on this, which is surprising..

Edited 1 hour ago by chiang mai

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

People here on visa's are not residents but can be tax residents, and of course, they are not citizens. I'm going with the idea they mean Thai citizen. But not good very clear from PWC on this, which is surprising..

 

 

I was thinking more along the lines of permanent residents, I've seen them referred to as 'residents' elsewhere before but can't recall what it was related to, it was something official though.....

[Yumthai]

11 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I was thinking more along the lines of permanent residents, I've seen them referred to as 'residents' elsewhere before but can't recall what it was related to, it was something official though.....

What PwC means is in the link: "A Thai resident means a person residing in Thailand at one or more times for a period equal to 180 days in any tax (calendar) year."

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

What PwC means is in the link: "A Thai resident means a person residing in Thailand at one or more times for a period equal to 180 days in any tax (calendar) year."

 

"If a Thai resident earns foreign-sourced income in 2024 and brings it into Thailand in the same year or any subsequent year, they will be subject to PIT on that income, regardless of whether they are resident in Thailand at the time".

 

Using that interpretation, that means any tax resident is taxable on foreign sourced income, even if they are not tax resident.....say what!!!

[ukrules]

57 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Using that interpretation, that means any tax resident is taxable on foreign sourced income, even if they are not tax resident.....say what!!!

 

I do believe they are talking about funds earned in previous years when non resident (less than 180 days) and remitted later while resident (tax resident).

They did make this very clear before issuing the additional clarification which excluded income prior to Jan 1, 2024 - so based on that clarification I assumed the worst possible scenario - they will tax you if you're a resident when you remit anything earned on or after Jan 1, 2024.

Simple really.

 

Edited 21 minutes ago by ukrules

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

 

I do believe they are talking about funds earned in previous years when non resident (less than 180 days) and remitted later while resident (tax resident).

They did make this very clear before issuing the additional clarification which excluded income prior to Jan 1, 2024 - so based on that clarification I assumed the worst possible scenario - they will tax you if you're a resident when you remit anything earned on or after Jan 1, 2024.

Simple really.

 

I need a nice lay down, in a darkened room.

[ukrules]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I need a nice lay down, in a darkened room.

 

Why? This was always a default interpretation as far as I was concerned.