Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Joebuzzz said:

Read this one.

It's already going down, down, down.

 

Top 10 provinces for second-hand property sales identified

BAU....Business As Usual, nothing to see here, move along.

[Ralf001]

33 minutes ago, Joebuzzz said:

300,000 expats contributing the 65,000 Baht per month

Do they really spend that much ?

 

I average  5k a month.

[Joebuzzz]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

Do they really spend that much ?

 

I average  5k a month.

I did mention that as a US citizen I'm required to transfer 65K monthly. Only because my embassy is too pathetic to provide income verification even on Social Security benefits.  No, I don't spend it all every month. Sometimes I spend more, most of the time about 70%.

[anrcaccount]

47 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Isn't that what happened with the change to how the law was enforced on taxation of remittances?

 

There hasn't been any change to how the law is enforced.

 

There have been no reports of enforcement, or official indication of potential mechanisms of enforcement, for foreign income remittances based on the new interpretation. 

 

If you know of any enforcement of this that has occurred, please share, as I'm sure that would be of interest. 

 

Additionally - If you know of any enforcement of the the foreign income remittance (same year earned) law that's existed for many years now, please share that also. 

 

 

 

 

[Joebuzzz]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

BAU....Business As Usual, nothing to see here, move along.

Wow! Thank you. I'm moving along now.

Can ya see me moving?

It kinda looks like .....

Screw it, it'll get flagged.

ROTFLMFAO.

You'll probably need to continue your search for someone who gives a squat about your opinions.

It ain't me.

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

There hasn't been any change to how the law is enforced.

 

There have been no reports of enforcement, or official indication of potential mechanisms of enforcement, for foreign income remittances based on the new interpretation. 

 

If you know of any enforcement of this that has occurred, please share, as I'm sure that would be of interest. 

 

Additionally - If you know of any enforcement of the the foreign income remittance (same year earned) law that's existed for many years now, please share that also. 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh, sure.

 

The law on remittances was passed long ago, it hasn't changed.  The "interpretation" (how it is enforced) has. The change went into effect January 1st for tax year 2024.

 

You will see the results of the change of interpretation/enforcement early in 2025 when expats begin filing their 2024 taxes.  Why would you expect to see 'enforcement' now, before tax filing/payment is due?

 

The only exception to the above I can think of is anyone filing half-year 2024 tax returns.

[Ralf001]

14 minutes ago, Joebuzzz said:

I did mention that as a US citizen I'm required to transfer 65K monthly. Only because my embassy is too pathetic to provide income verification even on Social Security benefits.  No, I don't spend it all every month. Sometimes I spend more, most of the time about 70%.

as I thought.. 65k a month spend is not an accurate claim.

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, Joebuzzz said:

Wow! Thank you. I'm moving along now.

Can ya see me moving?

It kinda looks like .....

Screw it, it'll get flagged.

ROTFLMFAO.

You'll probably need to continue your search for someone who gives a squat about your opinions.

It ain't me.

Calm down! The point is that Thailand is constantly going through these periods of change where property doesn't sell, tourists don't come blah blah blah. I've lived here full time for over 21 years and part time for almost thirty, that change is a feature of the landscape and the country somehow, always manages to come out better.

[chiang mai]

FWIW I think an AVERAGE spend of 65k per month across all long stay visa holders is far too high. 

[anrcaccount]

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Uh, sure.

 

The law on remittances was passed long ago, it hasn't changed.  The "interpretation" (how it is enforced) has. The change went into effect January 1st for tax year 2024.

 

We have different definitions of enforcement. Yours is the law has an updated interpretation. Mine involves actions being taken to get people to comply with a rule. All good. 

 

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

You will see the results of the change of interpretation/enforcement early in 2025 when expats begin filing their 2024 taxes.  Why would you expect to see 'enforcement' now, before tax filing/payment is due?

 

I don't expect to see any enforcement now, neither do I expect to see any early next year. 

 

Time will tell. We will see. 

 

 

 

 

 

[motdaeng]

36 minutes ago, Joebuzzz said:

Read this one.

It's already going down, down, down.

you seem to be quite pessimistic... normally, that's my role... 

 

the whole tax situation will have an impact on certain areas, but not to the extreme extent that many are making it out to be.

 

i don't know a single expat who plans to leave thailand because of taxes. some have looked into it and know what to expect, while others don't believe they will ever have to pay any taxes here ... 

 

it's good to inform yourself so you know where you stand (tax-wise). that way, you can make hopefully a reasonable and rational decision ...

[topt]

2 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

i don't know a single expat who plans to leave thailand because of taxes.

Check out @ukrules posts - he has already moved and I believe @Danderman123 also........

[NoDisplayName]

5 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

We have different definitions of enforcement. Yours is the law has an updated interpretation. Mine involves actions being taken to get people to comply with a rule. All good. 

 

We're on the same page.

 

Interpretation is how the officials understand the meaning of the words of the text of the law.

 

Enforcement is the actions they take to, umm,....enforce their interpretation.

 

You might consider public notification of the change in policy interpretation as a form of enforcement.

[motdaeng]

7 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

i don't know a single expat who plans to leave thailand because of taxes.

 

3 minutes ago, topt said:

Check out @ukrules posts - he has already moved and I believe @Danderman123 also........

 

... but i don't know them, and if they leave, i won't get to know them either ...  

[jwest10]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I see the number differently.

 

The 300,000 Western foreigners comprises 170,000 working expats on WP's, according to the 2019 UN migration report, those people earn money inside the country and pay tax on it. The remainder are retired or long stay expats who remit money here from overseas. 130,000 x 65k month. / 35 baht per USD = 241 bill or 5% of GDP, I think that's very small in the bigger picture of things.

 

 

You are forgetting up to 560K deductibles for just the retired pensioners here  and also the forms are not out as yet and if and when they do and also remittance funds but one does not have to declare those which has income tax deducted in the UK'
We await announcements from the Revenue and most of the normal retired pensioners earn less than the deductibles.

[ukrules]

41 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

 

... but i don't know them, and if they leave, i won't get to know them either ...  

 

I left but I'll be back, just keeping below 180 days per year for now in order to remain non resident.

 

When the dust settles in a couple of years I'll review the situation.

 

[Eudaimonia]

When retirees bring in money from abroad, it has a much bigger impact on the local economy than it might seem at first glance, thanks to the multiplier effect.

 

That money doesn't just stop at the initial spending, whether it's rent, healthcare, or leisure. Each dollar spent circulates through the local economy, generating income for businesses and workers, who in turn spend it again. This creates a chain reaction of increased consumption, amplifying the economic impact. So, while retirees' remittances may seem small compared to GDP, their effect can be much larger due to this repeated spending cycle.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, motdaeng said:

i don't know a single expat who plans to leave thailand because of taxes.

 

It all depends on whether Thailand enacts worldwide taxation, and how it gets implemented.

 

From the little we know so far, I would potentially be looking at an annual Thai tax bill of $10,000 with nothing to show for it.  If so, then <180 for sure.  No real reason to stay, other than the wife owning a house.  Other countries have houses.

 

You'd think a $25,000 bond and 90-day reporting to a probation officer would be enough!

[Gknrd]

Most expats saw Thailand's retirement dream fading years ago and have left already. These are just last minute efforts to get rid of the rest of the Western expats. Nothing new. Just fleecing the remainder of the hanger oner's. 

You want our unbreathable air, poluted beaches, and city's. Pay the entrance fee , then as soon as you discover paradise is a scam it is to late.. LOL. They have your money and are laughing all the way to the bank.  

problem is the western men to be scammed is endless. Even with all the book from years ago to the endless internet folks warning against falling for the scams it seems to be on deaf ears. 

Edited September 14 by Gknrd

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, topt said:

Check out @ukrules posts - he has already moved and I believe @Danderman123 also........

I haven't moved, I'm just traveling more as to not become a tax resident.

 

However, IF the new regulations are enforced in 2025, there will be significant disruptions.

 

As an example, for a tax resident to buy property would be prohibitively expensive, due to new taxes.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I haven't moved, I'm just traveling more as to not become a tax resident.

 

However, IF the new regulations are enforced in 2025, there will be significant disruptions.

 

As an example, for a tax resident to buy property would be prohibitively expensive, due to new taxes.

You keep saying this but fail to understand, ONLY is they use non-assessable income.

[MarkBR]

Wonder how other SE Asian countries will take advantage of the stupidity to get retirees from Thailand to relocate by sensible policies?

[chiang mai]

10 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Most expats saw Thailand's retirement dream fading years ago and have left already. These are just last minute efforts to get rid of the rest of the Western expats. Nothing new. Just fleecing the remainder of the hanger oner's. 

You want our unbreathable air, poluted beaches, and city's. Pay the entrance fee , then as soon as you discover paradise is a scam it is to late.. LOL. They have your money and are laughing all the way to the bank.  

problem is the western men to be scammed is endless. Even with all the book from years ago to the endless internet folks warning against falling for the scams it seems to be on deaf ears. 

Most expats, as in the majority? Can you substantiate that claim?

 

I presume you have written what you did, in order to justify not living in Thailand and to demonstrate how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is!

[Gknrd]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Most expats, as in the majority? Can you substantiate that claim?

 

I presume you have written what you did, in order to justify not living in Thailand and to demonstrate how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is!

No, I wrote it to show how smart the Thai's are.  And how most smart westerners have left if possible.  Or really just laugh, when they see all the rules and nonsense of living there.

[mdr224]

8 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

No, I wrote it to show how smart the Thai's are.  And how most smart westerners have left if possible.  Or really just laugh, when they see all the rules and nonsense of living there.

Far more rules in the west. Thailand still has appeal

[StandardIssue]

I'm already scouting out another country to live in. There are many other attractive alternatives. Immigration, new tax law and the ever changing policies for expats. Over tourism in some of my once favorite destinations. Why stay when there are better options. If I do come back I'll be searching for the last few "secret" destinations. Lately the North has become unattractive due to the flooding. This is not a one off event. Climate change will only make this worse. I'm glad I don't live in Chaing Mai or Chang Rai or Nong Kai for that matter which were hit hard by flooding and I once considered as possible living locations.

I made a post earlier that Thailand is played out. I stick to my story. Not fun anymore. Too many tourists. Girls in Bangkok are getting snobby now. Everyone one of the gals I tried to date this last year immediately insisted we go to expensive restaurants so they could do selfies and take pictures of the over priced food they had me buy for them. Never again.

[Yumthai]

7 hours ago, chiang mai said:

You keep saying this but fail to understand, ONLY is they use non-assessable income.

 

Not everyone's got millions of baht non-assessable income (to buy property) parked in an offshore account waiting to be remitted.

The years passing by there will be less and less tax-free savings prior 01/01/2024.

[redwood1]

45 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Most expats, as in the majority? Can you substantiate that claim?

 

I presume you have written what you did, in order to justify not living in Thailand and to demonstrate how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is!

 

Its simple really.....Anyone that follows silly rules and does not question unfair taxes is a stupid sheep..

And anyone that questions silly rules is a man...

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

 

Its simple really.....Anyone that follows silly rules and does not question unfair taxes is a stupid sheep..

And anyone that questions silly rules is a man...

It's great to have principles RW but you've got to be sensible. NOBODY in Thailand, least of all the TRD, cares whether you think taxes are fair and just or not and you have zero voice to influence them. So you have two choices, follow the rules or leave. I mean, what are you gonna do, write to your Congressman, demonstrate, start a petition, with hold taxes in protest etc etc!  

[newnative]

18 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Most expats saw Thailand's retirement dream fading years ago and have left already. These are just last minute efforts to get rid of the rest of the Western expats. Nothing new. Just fleecing the remainder of the hanger oner's. 

You want our unbreathable air, poluted beaches, and city's. Pay the entrance fee , then as soon as you discover paradise is a scam it is to late.. LOL. They have your money and are laughing all the way to the bank.  

problem is the western men to be scammed is endless. Even with all the book from years ago to the endless internet folks warning against falling for the scams it seems to be on deaf ears. 

      What a total crock.  When Asean Now  gets around to reviving the sorely missed Dumbest Post of the Year Contest I call dibs on your post to submit.  I'm sensing a sure win.  (Sorry, chiang mai, I know you responded before me but you forgot to call dibs.)

     If 'most expats' have 'left already', I wonder why Jomtien Immigration had to expand and build a big annex in the parking lot.  If 'most expats' have 'left already', shouldn't the immigration office be shrinking instead of expanding?   And, if most have left, why was Jomtien Immigration an absolute zoo when I did my 1-year renewal in June, supposedly a slower period with the snowbirds not back yet?

     If 'most expats' have 'left already', I wonder who is buying all the thousands of new houses and condos being built--in Pattaya alone, not to mention all the other popular areas of Thailand for expats.   In my new housing project we have expats from USA, Israel, Italy, Holland, Ireland, Russia, Britain, China, Dubai, India, and likely others I haven't met yet.  It was the same in the other two housing projects I lived at--expats from many different countries living in the majority of the homes.  Still here.

    If 'most expats' have 'left already', I wonder why there isn't foreign quota now available at condo projects in Pattaya popular with expats.  Northshore condo, for example, super popular with expats, hasn't had foreign quota available for years.  If 'most expats' have left, that would mean few expats left at Northshore and foreign quota should now be abundant there.  Not the case--there and at other projects that drew so many expat buyers that foreign quota ran out.  Expats are still there, foreign quota is still not there.

     If 'most expats' have 'left already', I wonder why Pattaya needs all the new car dealerships that have opened in the past few years?   Jeep, BYD, Deepal, MG, Kia, Peugeot, BMW, Mini, Mercedes, Audi, Hyundai, plus multiple new Honda and Toyota dealerships and others.  Tourists normally don't buy a car while on vacation.  Didn't all these dealers get the word that 'most expats' have 'left already'?   

   I, myself, don't know a single expat who has left.  Nor do I know any who are even thinking about leaving.   'Most expats' are still here.  Including me.

     

 

Edited September 15 by newnative
typo