Poll: Do you want Ukraine to WIN in the Russia-Ukraine war (it's a binary choice)

[fotofinish]

12 hours ago, ericbj said:

Changed circumstances brought about by the downfall of the Soviet regime, wrought no change of attitudes in dyed-in-the-wool western propagandists, abetted by lobby groups of NATO's "defence" industries.

 

Dominance through conflict was sought.  A win-lose game, where the US and its satellites were to be the winners.

 

Was this game won ?

 

Yes.  From the point-of-view of the US armaments industry. (whose shareholders made capital gains of around 1,000% over the course of the Afghan War.

 

No.  From the perspective of ordinary people of countries that participated in the wars "against terror" and to"make the world safe for democracy".

 

Most definitely not from those people on the receiving end of the bombing and shelling of civilian targets and the destruction of their homeland and way-of-life.

 

Ask yourself:

 

"Were the DECLARED objectives of these wars achieved ?"

 

To see with some degree of perspective the NATO-Russian proxy war in the Ukraine, it is necessary to go back at least as far as the Maidan coup; and preferably further.  To see that this was a war of "Russian aggression" that was sought by the US government and its cronies.

 

It was intended to initiate the economic destruction, the submission, and the break-up of the Russian Federation.  Through the imposition of limitless economic sanctions.

 

The Deep State's plan back-fired.  But, unwilling to admit defeat, they are now playing a game of nuclear-weapons poker.

 

For government to be democratic, the common people must assert their authority over it, and demand win-win solutions that contribute to a world of peaceful co-operation for the well-being of all.

 

This is the real challenge that we face today.

you just broke the record for the amount of kremlin tropes in one opinion piece lmfao

[CharlieKo]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

"...two sides to any story."  Well I know that the Earth is round and don't need to go read the Flat-Earthers "research" to know that it's round.  That's the problem with you guys who claim to do "research."  You're mostly reading right wing cr*p that hasn't been vetted and is masquerading as facts.  You actually ended up knowing less than someone who hasn't read anything at all.  Because what you think you know is just untrue. 

BULL<deleted>. That is what you are doing just reading one side of the story. You are just a sheep following. 

[ericbj]

13 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

US war of independence was a win for the people of the USA.

 

Which people?  Not the indigenous people, for whom the UK government wished to conserve the regions west of the Allegheny Mountains.

 

Not for an estimated 100,000 of the settler population who abandoned all they possessed to move to what later became known as Canada, changing the dominantly French demography there.

 

And not for an estimated third of the settler population who were harassed and persecuted by the "freedom fighters" for their indifference to the war and their desire to be left alone.

 

This is not to decry the urge for independence, but merely to point out the situation was more nuanced than is often claimed.

 

And one could continue in this vein, by pointing out that during the war for self-determination by the Confederacy, there were slavery states on the Union side and abolitionist states in the Confederacy.

 

The situation in the Ukraine also has its nuances, as exemplified here:
https://youtu.be/_XuJLV2kfcc

[GammaGlobulin]

14 hours ago, retarius said:

This simply isn't true.

 

So say you....

 

Because, I am a QUAKER....at heart.

 

[tgw]

11 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

I don't need any opportunity from you to support anything. You can stick that where the sun don't shine! 

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/kyiv-has-sold-ukraine-to-blackrock-russia-lambasts-ukraine-for-taking-support-from-us/videoshow/106731755.cms?from=mdr

 

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/blackrock-plots-to-buy-ukraine/

 

As for regurgitation? If you cared to not just accept a one sided story and went out of your way to so some research and, yes actually look at media which you don't do atm. Then you might see all you are doing is absorbing propaganda from one side. There is always two sides to any story. Somewhere in the middle is the reality of what is really going on!

 

I see you provided no credible source for your claim that Blackrock bought Ukraine

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

So say you....

 

Because, I am a QUAKER....at heart.

 

 

And  many a male visitor to Thailand sees himself as a shining white knight arriving to save young women (and boys) from the sordid life of the beer bar. Sadly, they are lotharios both at heart and in their actions. 

 

[Patong2021]

13 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

I don't need any opportunity from you to support anything. You can stick that where the sun don't shine! 

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/kyiv-has-sold-ukraine-to-blackrock-russia-lambasts-ukraine-for-taking-support-from-us/videoshow/106731755.cms?from=mdr

 

 

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/blackrock-plots-to-buy-ukraine/

 

 

As for regurgitation? If you cared to not just accept a one sided story and went out of your way to so some research and, yes actually look at media which you don't do atm. Then you might see all you are doing is absorbing propaganda from one side. There is always two sides to any story. Somewhere in the middle is the reality of what is really going on!

 

 

You have not provided any evidence of Blackrock purchasing large amounts of land in Ukraine. All that you did was put up a link to a Russian government representative making the claim. The other link is to an opinion piece by Bradley Devin. None of what you posted  shows that Blackrock has purchased  large amounts of land in Ukraine. Where is this purchased land? You do not know. When was the land purchased. You do not know. How was the land purchased. You do not know. 

 

In effect all that you have done is either  intentionally or unintentionally through ignorance repeated a lie  put out  by Russia in 2022.  Your claim is a variation on the exposed Russian lie that US companies purchased  17 million hectares of agricultural land in Ukraine. When the Russian propagandists released their lie, which  ignorant idiots accepted without challenge,  the Russians cited their source as an  Australian site called Australiannationalreview.com, which does not provide any evidence to prove these claims. 

 

According to the State Service for Geodesy, Cartography and Cadastre write StopFake, 0.26 million hectares were sold in Ukraine during the year of operation of the land market. This figure is about 0.8% of the area of agricultural land (32.6 million hectares) entered into the geocadastre. Thus, the data on 17 million hectares operated by Kremlin propagandists is 65 times greater than the area of agricultural land actually sold in Ukraine.

 

It gets better. The Australian publication is  operated by Jamie Mcintyre, the self described freedom fighter and entrepreneur.  Australians may recall Jamie McIntyre  as the real estate promoter whoin 2016 was banned from corporate life and offering financial services for a decade as part of corporate regulator ASIC crackdown on land banking.   

 

Nice  reliable source you got there.

 

I will ask again. Where is the land that is purchased, you know address, location, region? If you  are going to claim lots of land was purchased, then surely you will know where it was done.

You are indeed regurgitating a Russian lie. Either you are doing this intentionally as an agent of Russia disinformation, or you have been duped and refuse to admit it.  You are a classic example of how conmen like Trump succeed.

[Evil Penevil]

6 hours ago, ericbj said:

 

... during the war for self-determination by the Confederacy, there were slavery states on the Union side and abolitionist states in the Confederacy.

 

Four slave-owning border states (Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware)  remained in the Union, but NO free states joined the Confederacy.  The anti-slavery western part of Virginia formed a new free state (West Virginia) and some counties in slave states declared themselves loyal to the Union, but no state that was free prior to the Civil War seceded.

[Luuk Chaai]

On 9/16/2024 at 3:03 PM, CharlieKo said:

Indeed, and Blackrock and other investment house have bought up a lot of Ukrainian land for that purpose. The US wanting Russian land for itself! why would the US need access to the black sea. To antagonise Russia, so they can place nukes in the area. Yet again the US starting something it cannot finish. Even Biden doesn't have the guts to take on a nuclear power such as Russia. 

first, replace the word guts with brains,    then realise it would not be and is not up to the individual mentioned,  there's a whole machine operating in control

[frank83628]

On 9/17/2024 at 4:45 AM, Patong2021 said:

 

Take it up with Putin. Russia funded the violent  Russoethnic militias, the same  people who murdered the innocent passengers onboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 with a Buk 9M38 surface-to-air missile on 17 July 2014.  All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed.

was never proven to be Russian that fired, what would Russia stand to gain from this act? NOTHING, what would Ukraine gain by this act..that Russia gets the blame on the international stage!


 

Putin is the one who kept raising the issue of Hitler and trying to link Ukraine to Nazis.
 

 the AZOF is a nazi group, you casn read here in black and white, its and old article, because since Biden took over, the media totally switched and claim AZOF don't even exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis


Russia initiated the ethnic cleansing.

 

that was the civilian people of eastern areas being shelled by Ukriniane missiles, with 14,000 reported dead

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

was never proven to be Russian that fired, what would Russia stand to gain from this act? NOTHING, what would Ukraine gain by this act..that Russia gets the blame on the international stage!


 

Putin is the one who kept raising the issue of Hitler and trying to link Ukraine to Nazis.
 

 the AZOF is a nazi group, you casn read here in black and white, its and old article, because since Biden took over, the media totally switched and claim AZOF don't even exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis


Russia initiated the ethnic cleansing.

 

that was the civilian people of eastern areas being shelled by Ukriniane missiles, with 14,000 reported dead

 

The Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) concluded that the aircraft was shot down by a Russian-made Buk missile system launched from a separatist-controlled area. The JIT’s findings indicated that the missile system was transported from Russia and returned there after the incident.

 

[MarkBR]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

The Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) concluded that the aircraft was shot down by a Russian-made Buk missile system launched from a separatist-controlled area. The JIT’s findings indicated that the missile system was transported from Russia and returned there after the incident.

 

I doubt any evidence will convince the pro-Putin proagandists on Aseannow.

[frank83628]

21 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

The Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) concluded that the aircraft was shot down by a Russian-made Buk missile system launched from a separatist-controlled area. The JIT’s findings indicated that the missile system was transported from Russia and returned there after the incident.

 

and for what purpose, what would it achieve apart from international condemnation ?

 

this taken from an article in Feb 23

Investigators behind the criminal probe into the July 2014 downing of Malaysian flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine said on Wednesday they had not been able to find sufficient evidence that could lead to new prosecutions and are therefore suspending the investigation. The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) stressed, however, that the case will be resumed if new information comes to light.

“The investigation has now reached its limit. All leads have been exhausted,” said Dutch prosecutor Digna van Boetzelaer as the JIT issued its latest report on the tragic incident.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

and for what purpose, what would it achieve apart from international condemnation ?

 

this taken from an article in Feb 23

Investigators behind the criminal probe into the July 2014 downing of Malaysian flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine said on Wednesday they had not been able to find sufficient evidence that could lead to new prosecutions and are therefore suspending the investigation. The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) stressed, however, that the case will be resumed if new information comes to light.

“The investigation has now reached its limit. All leads have been exhausted,” said Dutch prosecutor Digna van Boetzelaer as the JIT issued its latest report on the tragic incident.

 

 

.......not been able to find sufficient evidence that could lead to new prosecutions.....

 

That is evidence for a prosecution in a  court of law.........very different from having "evidence".

[frank83628]

24 minutes ago, MarkBR said:

I doubt any evidence will convince the pro-Putin proagandists on Aseannow.

not if it comes from pro Ukrainian western propagandist outlets, no, especially when they used to talk of the high levels of corruption and neo nazis, but are now silent and fallen into line for their paymasters 

[ericbj]

15 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

Four slave-owning border states (Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware)  remained in the Union, but NO free states joined the Confederacy.  The anti-slavery western part of Virginia formed a new free state (West Virginia) and some counties in slave states declared themselves loyal to the Union, but no state that was free prior to the Civil War seceded.

Thank you for those details.

[jayceenik]

This is a proxy war between the US and Russia.

Either the US prevails in Ukraine or Russia does.

I wish that Russia wins.

The EU is vassal to the US and NATO is the armed thug of the US.

Zelensky is a US tool.

And both the US and its UK sidekick would love to see Zelensky "win" and open Ukraine completely to US big corporations.

 

[Jingthing]

Trump.

Useful idiot for Putin or Russian asset?

Does it make any difference?

 

 

[fotofinish]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:10 PM, ericbj said:

 

Which people?  Not the indigenous people, for whom the UK government wished to conserve the regions west of the Allegheny Mountains.

 

Not for an estimated 100,000 of the settler population who abandoned all they possessed to move to what later became known as Canada, changing the dominantly French demography there.

 

And not for an estimated third of the settler population who were harassed and persecuted by the "freedom fighters" for their indifference to the war and their desire to be left alone.

 

This is not to decry the urge for independence, but merely to point out the situation was more nuanced than is often claimed.

 

And one could continue in this vein, by pointing out that during the war for self-determination by the Confederacy, there were slavery states on the Union side and abolitionist states in the Confederacy.

 

The situation in the Ukraine also has its nuances, as exemplified here:
https://youtu.be/_XuJLV2kfcc

yeah ur spot on Ivan..absolutely no difference between 1775 and 2022....all the ''nuances'' of the 1770's and 250 years later during 2020's mirror perfectly lmao pos