Trump appeal against ridiculous fine looks like a winner

[theblether]

Gordon Gecko famously said in the movie Wall Street "greed is good." Sometimes controlling your appetite for revenge is the better course. While he may lose the appeal against conviction, he'll almost certainly get the amount of the fine reduced.

 

"A five-judge New York appellate panel questioned both the size and validity of a judgment of more than $450 million against Donald J. Trump at a hearing."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/nyregion/trump-civil-fraud-penalty-appeals-court.html

[Inderpland]

41 minutes ago, theblether said:

Gordon Gecko famously said in the movie Wall Street "greed is good." Sometimes controlling your appetite for revenge is the better course. While he may lose the appeal against conviction, he'll almost certainly get the amount of the fine reduced.

 

"A five-judge New York appellate panel questioned both the size and validity of a judgment of more than $450 million against Donald J. Trump at a hearing."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/nyregion/trump-civil-fraud-penalty-appeals-court.html

So, you're just posting your hopes and dreams. OK then.

[theblether]

11 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

So, you're just posting your hopes and dreams. OK then.

 

Absurd reply. Did you read the article? Did you note the Democrat judges casting serious doubts upon the case? 

[Inderpland]

4 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

Absurd reply. Did you read the article? Did you note the Democrat judges casting serious doubts upon the case? 

No, I didn't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

[theblether]

10 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

No, I didn't read the article because it's behind a paywall.

 

Thanks for confirming you didn't read it. 

 

Laughable. 

[Inderpland]

8 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

Thanks for confirming you didn't read it. 

 

Laughable. 

Yes, I agree posting a link to a source hidden behind a paywall is quite laughable.

 

 

[theblether]

4 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

Yes, I agree posting a link to a source hidden behind a paywall is quite laughable.

 

 

 

It wasn't behind a paywall for me but hey, try google - there's plenty of free sources for the same story out there. You'll even read reports on <removed> websites. You'll know where to find them, eh? 

 

Carry on. 

[Danderman123]

Trump will get at least a major reduction in the fine.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, theblether said:

 

It wasn't behind a paywall for me but hey, try google - there's plenty of free sources for the same story out there. You'll even read reports on <removed> websites. You'll know where to find them, eh? 

 

Carry on. 

Then post links to the free sources, instead of wasting people's time.

[bendejo]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump will get at least a major reduction in the fine.

I agree, they will probably roll it back to the initial fine, but I think they should make a provision that the next time he denounces her again $5 million gets added at each update.  Each of these appeals costs him plenty even without the fine.  Maybe during breaks in the court proceeding he can hawk watches in Foley Square (the location of the courthouse) to try to raise cash for the attorneys.  Or if a Black person comes along he can try to sell them the sneakers.

 

[Danderman123]

9 minutes ago, bendejo said:

I agree, they will probably roll it back to the initial fine, but I think they should make a provision that the next time he denounces her again $5 million gets added at each update.  Each of these appeals costs him plenty even without the fine.  Maybe during breaks in the court proceeding he can hawk watches in Foley Square (the location of the courthouse) to try to raise cash for the attorneys.  Or if a Black person comes along he can try to sell them the sneakers.

 

Different case.

 

This is the NY State case against the Trump Organization.

[jerrymahoney]

“I think you hear underneath all these questions, the question of mission creep,” Associate Justice Peter Moulton said. “Has 6312” — the statute in question — “morphed into something that it was not meant to do?”

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/26/trump-civil-fraud-appeal-oral-arguments-00181339

[jerrymahoney]

REDUX

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1320175-judge-orders-trump-and-companies-to-pay-nearly-355-million-in-civil-fraud-trial/?do=findComment&comment=18714310

 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by jerrymahoney

[Theforgotten1]

There are so many people on this forum who hate Trump , hate the fact that he never started a war under his presidency, hate the fact that he help the black population, hate the fact that he wanted to make America a better country for the Americans.  

[TigerandDog]

12 hours ago, Inderpland said:

So, you're just posting your hopes and dreams. OK then.

even the legal eagles at Meidas Touch expect it to be reduced on the basis of EVERY appeal that has gone before the appellant court has been reduced. They're estimating that it will be reduced to within the range of $175m - $300m PLUS the interest.

[Kwaibill]

My guess at a likely outcome is that the punitive award will be reduced by maybe 100 million, but not overturned. I’ve noticed similar outcomes in past cases if I recall correctly. The one that comes to mind is the woman who spilled a cup of McDonalds coffee on herself and was initially awarded some astronomical sum ( I forget the numbers involved) but it was reduced considerably on appeal. Personally I think that one should have been vacated entirely because some personal responsibility should be attached to handling hot liquids, but not how the world wags anymore.

[Danderman123]

In such cases, juries tend to vote for astronomical sums, and appeals courts dial it back.

[renaissanc]

I think that the New York Appeals Court will reduce the fine significantly, and the Supreme Court will dismiss the case afterwards. Then when Trump is President he'll clean out the DoJ of the biased, corrupt Democrat(-Marxist) judges around the country. Get our resume ready, Engoran!

[mdr224]

1 hour ago, Theforgotten1 said:

There are so many people on this forum who hate Trump , hate the fact that he never started a war under his presidency, hate the fact that he help the black population, hate the fact that he wanted to make America a better country for the Americans.  

I think its just because hes mean. Americans are very sensitive people…

[jerrymahoney]

49 minutes ago, renaissanc said:

I think that the New York Appeals Court will reduce the fine significantly, and the Supreme Court will dismiss the case afterwards. Then when Trump is President he'll clean out the DoJ of the biased, corrupt Democrat(-Marxist) judges around the country. Get our resume ready, Engoran!

The NY State court system gets confusing:

 

The verdict by Judge Engoron WAS in the Supreme court.

 

The current appeal is in the Appelate Division of the Supreme Court

 

and the top Court is the Court of Appeals.

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

 

 

So a big fat nothing burger......I'm surprised you haven't cottoned on to putting BOMBSHELL in your title.

[Inderpland]

3 hours ago, Theforgotten1 said:

There are so many people on this forum who hate Trump , hate the fact that he never started a war under his presidency, hate the fact that he help the black population, hate the fact that he wanted to make America a better country for the Americans.  

But most of all we hate the fact that none of that happened.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, mdr224 said:

I think its just because hes mean. Americans are very sensitive people…

Is that why they kill so many of each other and people in other countries?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Inderpland said:

But most of all we hate the fact that none of that happened.

Were you asleep during his presidency? Seems so.

[Inderpland]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Were you asleep during his presidency? Seems so.

Unfortunately not. It was impossible to sleep while the orange traitor conducting the greatest s**t show the world has ever seen. And, killing thousands of his own countrymen in the process.*

Handing him the presidency and expecting good things was very much like giving a laptop to a monkey and expecting Shakespeare.

 

*https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/10/us-coronavirus-response-donald-trump-health-policy

Edited 1 hour ago by Inderpland

[Patong2021]

18 hours ago, theblether said:

Gordon Gecko famously said in the movie Wall Street "greed is good." Sometimes controlling your appetite for revenge is the better course. While he may lose the appeal against conviction, he'll almost certainly get the amount of the fine reduced.

 

"A five-judge New York appellate panel questioned both the size and validity of a judgment of more than $450 million against Donald J. Trump at a hearing."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/nyregion/trump-civil-fraud-penalty-appeals-court.html

 

Not unusual when there is a large jury award. The judgement is not being questioned, which is really what matters.

The award may be reduced, but it will not be vacated, which means that Trump would still be found responsible for vile and illegal acts.

 

[jerrymahoney]

57 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Not unusual when there is a large jury award.

There was no jury -- bench trial by Judge Engoron.

[Patong2021]

17 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

There was no jury -- bench trial by Judge Engoron.

You are correct. I confused this with the other trial. I checked the judgement and the calculation is derived from the  valuations that had been used. If Trump's lawyers can recalculate the valuations and justify a lower mount, the amount will be reduced. However, so far the appeals court has not questioned the judgement, only the amount of the penalty and compensation to be paid.

[jerrymahoney]

21 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

However, so far the appeals court has not questioned the judgement, only the amount of the penalty and compensation to be paid.

NY appeals court seems open to altering Trump's 'troubling' $454 million civil fraud penalty

 

NEW YORK — via  AP Updated: 3:17 PM EDT Sep 26, 2024

Some judges in a New York appeals court appeared receptive Thursday to possibly reversing or reducing a civil fraud judgment that stands to cost Donald Trump nearly $500 million. One judge called the former president’s penalty “troubling” and wondered if the state’s policing of private business transactions amounted to “deterrence” or “mission creep.” ...

 

But Judge Peter H. Moulton questioned if James' office was engaging in “mission creep,” and whether the law she sued Trump under had "morphed into something that it was not meant to do.” Later, Moulton questioned Vale about Engoron's hefty punishment, observing that “the immense penalty in this case is troubling.”

 

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/ny-appeals-court-hears-arguments-on-trump-civil-fraud-judgment/62390658

Edited 2 minutes ago by jerrymahoney