Field trips don’t hurt students, poorly-maintained transport does : PM

[Will B Good]

Just now, dinsdale said:

No it won't. It won't make the families whose children die on the roads everyday feel much better either. What's the solution? Do you have one? Everyday I see clapped out old buses transporting kids on school excursions. The fact is that so much of the bus rolling stock here is old and poorly maintained. These buses are cheaper to hire and directors of schools will more than likely go for the cheapest option.

 

 

You have to wonder how many school buses 36 billion baht would buy......but what the hell, submarines that don't accidentally sink are more important.

 

 

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

We all know how it works here, was the school head related to the bus company owner? just hope there was no corruption involved here over the safety of the children, I have my suspicions 

Maybe or maybe it was just a cheap option. The school is a Wat school so down the bottom of the pile. 

[Stargeezr]

A field trip is nice to go on, but how much experience do 5 and 6 year olds get from

going to the place these students were headed?  Using such an old bus did not

help this situation.  Too bad some of the windows could not be broken to give an exit to the trapped children and teachers.

[Will B Good]

 

 

Guns don't kill people.....but someone with a gun could shoot and kill you.

 

Get these death traps of the road.....stop buying submarines and jet fighters and spend the money on your own children.

[gk10012001]

7 hours ago, Bohemianfish said:

It's still like that mostly. Formatting via copy paste from website:

 

— exit, a roof exit is required in the rear half of the bus to provide a means of egress when the bus is overturned on either side. (US gov site.

 

Google AI:

School buses don't have seat beltbecause they are designed with a passive restraint system called compartmentalization, which protects students in the event of an accident. This system includes: 

 

• Closely spaced seats: Seats are packed tightly together to create cushioned compartments for students. 
   
   
• Padded seats: Seats are wider, thicker, and have high backs to protect students. 
   
   
• Energy-absorbing seat backs: Seats are designed to absorb the force of a crash. 
   

School buses are also designed to withstand a lot of impact and are less likely to roll over than other vehicles. However, some say that compartmentalization doesn't fully protect students in all types of crashes. For example, if a child is only partially seated in their seat, they might fly down the aisle instead of hitting the seat in front of them. 

 

Some states and school districts have passed laws requiring seat belts on school buses. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has also pushed for lap and shoulder seat belts on school buses. 

 

 

 

Nice ideas and maybe newer ones do have some or all of those features but I doubt it.

[mran66]

1 hour ago, Watawattana said:

Not about to disagree with you.  But I live in hope.  “It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand”.  Apparently a quote by Peter Ustinov, or might have been Ted Lasso.

 

Living in hope in Thailand is fine as long as you don't take it too seriously. Many things even bigger than accidents like this here that really need hope for better tomorrow... It is just that forces and culture are against the progress 

[shackleton]

Maybe they should train the bus drivers up on safety procedures make sure they are Competent on doing their jobs looking after the peoples safety on their buses 

Instead of  fleeing the accident scene 

[Cereal]

An autopsy of the lungs of the deceased will tell whether they died of asphyxiation or burned. I can only hope it's the former. 

 

So sad. And that stinking coward of a bus driver who ran away. Why do Thais always seem to do that?

[Sydebolle]

a) inspect all public buses on a yearly basis - ALL 

b) retire public buses after X years or Y mileage, whatever comes first 
c) fine the operator of the bus in case of breach with a juicy fine of seven digits in Baht 

[richard_smith237]

59 minutes ago, Cereal said:

So sad. And that stinking coward of a bus driver who ran away. Why do Thais always seem to do that?

 

So many reports that the bus driver ran away....  but they paint a false narative. 

 

Upon catching fire, the bus driver can be seen in numerous videos attempting to open the rear door of the bus...  in another video he can then be seen to fetch a fire extinguisher (presumably from one of the other busses).... and attempt to use that (before the video cuts).

 

I suspect the 'LGV tank explosion' was so severe, he (he bus driver or other teachers) couldn't access the back of the bus from within.

 

 

That said: after all attempts failed to save the children, the bus driver did then 'flee'....  I think through fear of immediate retribution from bystanders. 

 

Thats not to forgive his actions - but to shine light on the reports that he fled when he did not, not immediately anyway.

 

 

[MikeandDow]

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

So many reports that the bus driver ran away....  but they paint a false narative. 

 

Upon catching fire, the bus driver can be seen in numerous videos attempting to open the rear door of the bus...  in another video he can then be seen to fetch a fire extinguisher (presumably from one of the other busses).... and attempt to use that (before the video cuts).

 

I suspect the 'LGV tank explosion' was so severe, he (he bus driver or other teachers) couldn't access the back of the bus from within.

 

 

That said: after all attempts failed to save the children, the bus driver did then 'flee'....  I think through fear of immediate retribution from bystanders. 

 

Thats not to forgive his actions - but to shine light on the reports that he fled when he did not, not immediately anyway.

 

 

 just to point out the bus was a CNG not LGV and the tank did not explode one of the tanks had a leak   CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) LGV (liquefied Natural gas vehicle)    In vehicle applications, the main advantage that LNG has over CNG is that it is more dense. For two tanks of the same size, the LNG tank will allow a vehicle to drive further than the CNG tank. which is Interesting.LNG, however, is more complicated to use, and is not widely available. LNG fueling stations require complex cryogenic equipment.LNG is also more hazardous than CNG. One safety concern results from the need for LNG vehicles to vent off fumes. LNG vehicles do not normally come with LNG cooling systems, so LNG tanks tend to gain heat. The heat gains cause some of the LNG to vaporize. Eventually, the vapors need to be vented to avoid excessive pressure build ups. This is why LNG vehicles should never be parked in interior garages unless special ventilation is installed. LNG, being very cold, can also cause freeze burn. Contact with LNG, LNG vapors and the uninsulated surfaces of LNG fuel system components should also be avoided, and drivers and mechanics need to be trained in LNG safety.

Edited October 3 by MikeandDow

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

 just to point out the bus was a CNG not LGV and the tank did not explode one of the tanks had a leak   CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) LGV (liquefied Natural gas vehicle)    In vehicle applications, the main advantage that LNG has over CNG is that it is more dense. For two tanks of the same size, the LNG tank will allow a vehicle to drive further than the CNG tank. which is Interesting.LNG, however, is more complicated to use, and is not widely available. LNG fueling stations require complex cryogenic equipment.LNG is also more hazardous than CNG. One safety concern results from the need for LNG vehicles to vent off fumes. LNG vehicles do not normally come with LNG cooling systems, so LNG tanks tend to gain heat. The heat gains cause some of the LNG to vaporize. Eventually, the vapors need to be vented to avoid excessive pressure build ups. This is why LNG vehicles should never be parked in interior garages unless special ventilation is installed. LNG, being very cold, can also cause freeze burn. Contact with LNG, LNG vapors and the uninsulated surfaces of LNG fuel system components should also be avoided, and drivers and mechanics need to be trained in LNG safety.

 

Thanks - I think the acrynms being used... LNG / LPG / CNG / LGV etc are being mixed up... 

 

I'm not sure what this bus was using - but for all gasses at these temperatures, they need to be compressed.

 

Also, as you pointed out, I'm not sure of an explosion - but the rate of the spread of fire was rapid...

 

This is a photo of the driver running to get a fire extinguisher after trying and failing to get the back door open. 

 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

This tragedy reflects the general tendency in Thailand regarding poor vehicle maintenance. In the past it was the break failure issues but this time it went a step further and ended in a very tragic and unacceptable manner. Even if new vehicle maintenance laws were implemented, with all the current corruption in the administration or the Police, small chance that things will change in a close future.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Middle Aged Grouch said:

This tragedy reflects the general tendency in Thailand regarding poor vehicle maintenance. In the past it was the break failure issues but this time it went a step further and ended in a very tragic and unacceptable manner. Even if new vehicle maintenance laws were implemented, with all the current corruption in the administration or the Police, small chance that things will change in a close future.

 

I think in the past - the brake failure excuses are for three reasons.

1) Poor driving - riding the brakes on a hill and them over heating

2) Driver inattention - brake failure is the go to excuse

3) Rare instances of genuine brake failure - poor maintenance. 

 

 

[Watawattana]

I wonder...  Many of you may not have heard of a certain UK politician who caused a bit of a stir during an outbreak of what was called 'Mad Cow Disease'?  This is him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gummer.

 

What he did, in 1990, was to try to feed a burger to his 4 year old daughter to try to reassure the British public that British beef was safe.  Of course it was not.  What it led to is people dying of Creutz-feldt-Jakob disease (vCJD).  The sad thing is that John Gummer daughter subsequently died of this - article here - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/oct/12/uk.bse.

 

The point of this is I'm wondering whether all Thai politicians and their families should made to travel round Thailand on these types of buses, rather than private helicopters or modern and well maintained vehicles, so that they can feel what's it's like?  Take the same risks that the majority of the Thai population?  Think that might help focus minds?

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, Watawattana said:

I wonder...  Many of you may not have heard of a certain UK politician who caused a bit of a stir during an outbreak of what was called 'Mad Cow Disease'?  This is him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gummer.

 

What he did, in 1990, was to try to feed a burger to his 4 year old daughter to try to reassure the British public that British beef was safe.  Of course it was not.  What it led to is people dying of Creutz-feldt-Jakob disease (vCJD).  The sad thing is that John Gummer daughter subsequently died of this - article here - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/oct/12/uk.bse.

 

The point of this is I'm wondering whether all Thai politicians and their families should made to travel round Thailand on these types of buses, rather than private helicopters or modern and well maintained vehicles, so that they can feel what's it's like?  Take the same risks that the majority of the Thai population?  Think that might help focus minds?

 

"The sad thing is that John Gummer daughter subsequently died of this - article here -"

 

The person in the article, who died of CJD, was NOT the daughter of John Gummer.

 

The person who died was the daughter of friends of the Gummer family.

 

It's in the sodding headline!:

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by ElwoodP
Unhelpful sentence removed

[Enoon]

Poor maintenance of vehicles........and an absurd, primitive reliance on amulets, prayer and luck.

 

I guarantee there was no shortage of amulets dangling in the cab of that coach.

 

I also guarantee she will do nothing to disabuse them of that stupidity.........nor will she do anything to challenge its primacy, or the primacy of the institutions that maintain it for their own hegemonic purposes.

 

 

Edited October 3 by Enoon

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Watawattana said:

The sad thing is that John Gummer daughter subsequently died of this - article here - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/oct/12/uk.bse.

Of topic ........ Says daughter of a friend, not Gummer's daughter.

 

@Enoon you beat me to it!

Edited October 3 by BritManToo

[Kwaibill]

I recall that as a US school bus driver it was required to perform a safety inspection before each run. Simply unbelievable that such is not required in Thailand for every public conveyance. Seems the baht supersedes human life in importance. 

[john donson]

I wonder how much the parents will get for the dead child... not morbid, but the disgusting low money for the loss of a child.. will the bus company suddenly become bankrupt after they sold all their busses to a family member or maid for 1 baht?

[NanLaew]

On 10/2/2024 at 9:55 PM, gk10012001 said:

The school busses I rode on here in the USA as a kid were right in the middle of the baby boom in the 1960s and early 1970s.  Big old yellow school busses.  No seat belts.  No padding on the back of the set in front of you.  Made us sit three in each of the seats meaning our little arses were half on the seat half off the seat if you were the last one in that seat.  I don't recall the side windows being emergency push out like newer busses have.  I am pretty sure there was no roof egress hatch either.  Not that any of us could have reached that roof hatch anyway just like the children on that Thailand bus probably were too young and short to reach either.

 

You mean the diesel-powered buses, with non-flammable fittings, that were mostly were driven inside town and cities where speed limits applied and had large pop-out STOP signs when they were loading or offloading kids to stop cars overtaking? Built to a NHTSA standard with emergency exits and regular inspection and certification of vehicle and drivers?

 

It's a miracle you made it.

 

Edited October 4 by NanLaew

[retarius]

That's it, let's wrap it all up in an inane Churchillian quip. 

[watchcat]

On 10/2/2024 at 10:37 AM, snoop1130 said:

She said that such trips are not harmful to children and blamed poorly-maintained public transport for road accidents

 

This is what you get with the rampant corruption in this country !

Edited October 6 by watchcat

[gk10012001]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:17 AM, NanLaew said:

 

You mean the diesel-powered buses, with non-flammable fittings, that were mostly were driven inside town and cities where speed limits applied and had large pop-out STOP signs when they were loading or offloading kids to stop cars overtaking? Built to a NHTSA standard with emergency exits and regular inspection and certification of vehicle and drivers?

 

It's a miracle you made it.

 

We had none of that.  I am talking 1970.  Rhode Island.  No STOP signs that pop out.  No pop out windows.  Was an exit at the back of the bus though.  heck on the last day of Junior High school we all dared each of us to go out the back and I know I did