Transport Department Clarifies Fatal Bus Fire Incident to Committee: CNG Leak Confirmed

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, connda said:

So, shouldn't you now be dragging the owners of the bus into court to show why the bus wasn't adequately maintained and inspected.  Nah - throw the bus driver under the bus.  He's a nobody.  Sh*t does roll downhill. 

 

He's got bigger trouble now, BangkokPost just put an article out saying the owner failed to bring the other two buses in, but the authorities found them by GPS signal at a garage having the illegal extra tanks removed. The owner should get the death penalty at this point, and the garage removing the tanks should also be charged. 

[connda]

3 hours ago, Gobbler said:

Who installed and did the conversion? 

 

No smell. I am not being Krass, but I'm angry about this. 

 

How about the smell of 20+ children and teachers burning to death? 

 

No one cares about child safety. 

 

It's disgusting. 

Sad but true.  A few 🐊tears from the PM.  This will be swept under the bus rug and promptly forgotten.  It was just the peasant children of lowly commoners anyway.  Nobody special.  The children of special people would go on a field trip in luxury vans headed up by a motorcade of police leading the way with lights-a-flashing. 

🚔 🚔"Get out of the way, get out of the way - children of special people coming though." 🚔🚔🚔🚔🚔

[connda]

5 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

He's got bigger trouble now, BangkokPost just put an article out saying the owner failed to bring the other two buses in, but the authorities found them by GPS signal at a garage having the illegal extra tanks removed. The owner should get the death penalty at this point, and the garage removing the tanks should also be charged. 

They still try to pin the entire responsibility on the driver alone.  Like the children, the bus driver isn't someone special. 

[Lorry]

Anybody can look up the "reputed company" who owns the busses.

Quite interesting. 

BTW during the last 24 hours,  they didn't get many good reviews. 

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

most of this I wrote about  10 years ago after a fatal crash then.....

 

"“VIP” Buses in the event of an accident are the least safe – size isn’t everything it’s what happens to the passengers that counts.

 

2016

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has ordered a ban on the registration of new double-decker tour buses and stricter road worthiness checks for all public transport vehicles.

The 4,800 double-decker buses and 16,000 single-deck buses with a height of more than 3.6 metres already in operation must all pass a strict tilt test on a 30 degree slope. Any that fail to pass the test must be taken out of service, Mr Arkhom said."
 

now as then....

Forget the tire! It’s a red herring!

 

Accidents will happen – they occur due to human error but most people don’t understand what human error actually is they mistakenly think it’s down to “stupidity” or “bad driving” – but theirs is the stupidity for not understanding the true nature of human error in road safety. …and that is what is happening in most of the comments on this tragedy.

 

What the crash reports never reveal in Thailand is an accurate picture of what went wrong – they will try to naively apportion blame and sweep the matter under the carpet ASAP.

The fact that it has laid bare one of the most critical issues in Thai road safety will be hurriedly ignored.

 

Road safety is a health issue and it is the responsibility of the government (successive governments in Thailand’s case), and the authorities don’t want to face this as it impinges of businesses and their economic plans of untrammelled development.

 

Thailand is not  an oil rich country, it depends on imports for its energy – so for years it has been encouraging the use on natural gas to power vehicles. …and this comes with a range of safety responsibilities that the Thai authorities need to enforce – sadly they fall short again and again. They should have been taking precautions to help mitigate the risks associated with the high volatility of CNG, making it a safe and viable fuel alternative for buses and coaches, especially in urban settings where environmental concerns are prioritized.

 

 

So how can CNG or LNG be used safely? – This is down to the government… here is an overview of the issues that need to be addressed concerning the bus (buses) involved in this incident……

 

First how is CNG stored on the vehicle? – In high-pressure tanks; it is stored in  tanks that are built to stringent safety standards. (reinforced steel, aluminium, or composite materials) designed to withstand high pressure and external impacts…and it looks as if the tanks on the bus retained their structural integrity. Probably imported from China or maybe Europe, they should also periodically inspected and recertified to ensure long-term safety.

 

All these systems are fitted with pressure relief devices to prevent explosions in the event of overpressure or fire, they release gas in a controlled manner when pressure or temperature exceeds safe limits. – but where did the fire start??

 

Where the tanks are placed is important on trucks it is usually outside behind the cab they can be mounted on the roof or under the chassis of a bus,  they should be AWAY from passengers and in areas that are less likely to be affected in the event of a collision. Roof-mounting also helps in case of gas leaks,  CNG is lighter than air and will rise and dissipate.

 

All vehicles are fitted with gas leak detection systems - CNG-powered buses are/should be equipped with sensors to detect even small gas leaks. Sensors are installed in key areas such as the engine compartment, fuel storage areas, and the passenger cabin and are connected to alarm systems, which in the event of a leak, the system triggers an alarm to alert the driver AND automatically shuts off the fuel supply to prevent further gas leakage. Did this happen??

 

In the engine compartment design CNG-powered buses are designed with enhanced ventilation to allow any leaked gas to dissipate quickly and prevent the accumulation of gas that could lead to ignition. – did this happen??

 

Special care should have been taken to reduce the risk of sparks in the engine compartment. Electrical components are sealed or shielded, and potential sources of sparks are minimized to reduce the likelihood of ignition in the presence of a gas leak. Did this happen or was it some shabby, thrown together back street wiring loom?

 

In the event of a collision or severe mechanical failure, automatic shut-off valves will stop the flow of gas from the tank to the entire vehicle  - well this doesn’t seem to have happened at all!!

 

There will also have been a manual shut-off valves that can be operated by the driver or maintenance personnel in case of emergencies, allowing the isolation of the fuel system for added safety. Obviously they were inaccessible due to the heat.

 

What about the onboard fire suppression system? CNG-powered buses should be equipped with fire suppression systems that automatically activate if a fire is detected, particularly in the engine and passenger compartments. These systems are designed to help control or extinguish a fire before it spreads.

 

Thermal fuses are a worry as they are designed to vent gas safely if the tank becomes exposed to high heat from an external fire, reducing the risk of tank rupture. Where they part of the problem?

 

A universal problem in Thailand is that of driving education and training – there appears to be no comprehensive training: Drivers of CNG-powered buses should undergo specialized training to handle safety crises, such as identifying gas leaks, using emergency shut-off systems, and responding to fire alarms or other emergencies. I’d like to know if this company has a training program of any kind. Of course they cost money and you’d have to pay a “skilled” driver more money.

 

 

Obviously in this appalling case, evacuation procedures failed. Was the driver trained in proper evacuation procedures?

 

 One of the 5 Es of road safety is “Engineering” – which covers both vehicles and the road themselves – under this category one had to include maintenance and service of the vehicle – without effective monitoring by the DLT this is a huge gap in Thai road safety. The system relies on the movement of brown envelopes rather than the mechanical health of vehicles.

 

CNG buses require more frequent inspections than their diesel counterparts, especially in areas like fuel storage, fuel lines, and engine compartments. Maintenance personnel need to be trained specifically to work with high-pressure gas systems. Does this happen??

 

There needs to be regular gas leak testing which should be mandatory to ensure that all seals, hoses, and connections are secure and functioning properly.

Tanks need to be inspected and re-certified regularly:

 

All CNG-powered buses are equipped with easily accessible emergency shut-down switches that allow for immediate deactivation of the fuel system in case of an accident or leak. Why did this not happen??

In extreme situations, emergency venting systems can release gas safely from the tanks to prevent pressure build up and potential explosions. – did this go wrong??

 

Many people have pointed to the “Merc” badge on the front of this vehicle – and that’s what it is – a badge on the front of the vehicle – almost certainly this bus was coach built of a second-hand or imported chassis – even the claim that was a Merc needs to be verified

There is virtually no vehicle construction and crash safety regulation enforced in Thailand.

Were the fuel systems on this bus crash-tested?: The entire fuel system, including the CNG tanks, lines, and connectors, should be designed to withstand impact forces from collisions. I very much doubt they would stand up to serious scrutiny.

 

So, what is the guarantee that they remain intact and do not rupture in accidents?

Did the areas housing CNG tanks have reinforcement with extra protection to minimize damage from external impacts during crashes?

We need to ask the coachbuilder!!

 

On all buses passenger awareness is crucial – in this case the adults should be informed of what to do – there should be clear signage and instructions on emergency evacuation and safety procedures need to be posted inside the coaches so that passengers are aware of what to do in case of an emergency. – were they???

 

It looks as if at least of the emergency exits were unavailable due to where the bus came to rest but buses are equipped with emergency exits and easy-to-use systems for passenger evacuation, on all sides – this is critical in case of a fire or gas leak so what went wrong there?

 

There are loads of questions as yet unanswered about this disaster but it is easy to get that sinking feeling when you realise the chances of them being comprehensively addressed and answers are incredible slim. Saving face will come first.

While I and others agree entirely, your final 5 word sentence summarises the whole discussion nicely. 

Edited October 3 by Artisi

[john donson]

lots of brown envelopes then to 'certify' these busses

[newnative]

   This accident was truly horrific with wide-spread public anger that something like this could happen.  You can see the officials scrambling to pass the blame on to someone, anyone, but themselves.  Maybe this time it might bring some needed changes.  But, sad it has to take so many dying children and teachers to get the officials to get off their asses and start to do the things that should have been done years ago--that is if anything actually gets done.

[lordgrinz]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

   This accident was truly horrific with wide-spread public anger that something like this could happen.  You can see the officials scrambling to pass the blame on to someone, anyone, but themselves.  Maybe this time it might bring some needed changes.  But, sad it has to take so many dying children and teachers to get the officials to get off their asses and start to do the things that should have been done years ago--that is if anything actually gets done.

 

I won't be holding my breath, but I am willing to bet this time next year, nothing will have changed. The streets, Zebra crossings, sidewalks, and public/private transportation will continue to be death traps.

[PETERTHEEATER]

22 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

found guilty, both will face severe penalties, including permanent revocation of their licenses.

I opine that a court of law will determine penalties for any successful prosecution and not a head of DLT.

[Mr Meeseeks]

14 hours ago, connda said:

They still try to pin the entire responsibility on the driver alone.  Like the children, the bus driver isn't someone special. 

 

The driver is low-hanging fruit. Probably has no money or connections, thus will not cause repercussions if thrown in jail to satisfy the baying mob. 

 

Here we have Thais, in total indecency, trying to avoid responsibility for their actions that killed 20 children, so they can avoid being punished. 

 

This is beyond the pale for me. 

 

Every day, my disdain for these despicable people increases. They are unworthy of respect by any person with half a brain and any ethics and morals whatsoever. 

[cowellandrew]

Further questions were raised about the vehicle’s age, as it was first registered in 1970

 

[Sydebolle]

So all the transport ministers for the last 40+ years are getting cross-examined on a one-to-one basis on live TV transmissions now and, if proven not having done their jobs and running their ministry in line with given criteria = off to the slammer? 

And, if you are it, do the same with the DLT and their staff checking the roadworthiness (in this case the bus was cleared apparently on 23 May this year); do this now with all buses and coaches and wherever there is such an irregularity = off to the slammer.

This endless corruption and blunt ignorance to any given law in this country has to come to a screeching halt without any further delay. 

Yes, I know, wishful thinking ...... nothing will happen; let the dust settle and then it's business and envelopes as usual!