Elderly Swiss man busted with gun at Phuket Airport

[HighPriority]

You’ve never seen the remnants from an icev crash ???

[wimpy]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

EV's have an 8 year battery warranty....    So, drive one for 5 or 6 years then sell it under warranty.

 

Doubt a BYD will be worth much with two years left on the warranty. Might make sense to pick up one cheap, and drive it until it dies.

Edited 5 hours ago by wimpy

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

BYD have reduced the price of cars in some cases by 300,000 baht. and a recall of 100,000cars in China is of concern to current owners.. 

However most owners are happy with their cars. 

Personally i would not buy an EV unless i could recharge at my home location. 

On a plus note for BYD Warren Buffet bought 10% of the company three years ago. 

Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway drops BYD stake to less than 5%

Even for Warren Buffett, BYD can be called a long-term holding. Berkshire Hathaway first bought a stake in BYD in 2008. Berkshire began selling shares in August 2022, cutting just over half its holding over the next two years. As of July 2024, Buffett owned less than 5% of BYD's Hong Kong H-shares, below the threshold where it has to disclose further sales.

[mstevens]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe, maybe they will last many years. But who wants to bet on that?

Who wants to buy a vehicle where the battery is maybe good for another 5 or 10 years, but maybe it is gone in two years, and then a replacement would cost more than the price of the second-hand car now.

With normal cars, people have decades of experience how they will last and about retail values. With EVs, no experience, big risk. 

 

Most car manufacturers offer a much longer warranty on the battery than they do on the rest of the vehicle. (That said, I wouldn't buy an EV myself!)

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, mstevens said:

Most car manufacturers offer a much longer warranty on the battery than they do on the rest of the vehicle. (That said, I wouldn't buy an EV myself!)

 

How much longer? Like 10 or 15 years?

If I would buy a BEV when it's 5 years old and still has 10 years warranty on the battery, then I wouldn't worry.

But if it had i.e. only 7 years warranty and I want to sell the car in maybe 3 years, what then? Who will buy a car which can suddenly have scrap value? 

 

 

[rwill]

16 hours ago, UWEB said:

Yes, around 15-20 years.

Or the first accident.

[john donson]

early adopters always pay a price to be first to show off to others...

[motdaeng]

from what i know, some companies are now offering battery warranties longer than 8 years. many studies show that newer batteries can last up to 600,000 km or more. @vinny41 is the expert on ev data.

 

i’m sure that as batteries continue to improve, ev-haters will have to find a new reason to criticize them ...

[motdaeng]

a battery warranty of 8 years don't mean the battery has to be replaced or can not be used anymore ... 

it's the same as for a ice car, after the warranty you still can use the car as normal as before 

[wimpy]

7 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

a battery warranty of 8 years don't mean the battery has to be replaced or can not be used anymore ... 

it's the same as for a ice car, after the warranty you still can use the car as normal as before 

Of course not, but if it fails, you are done.

[motdaeng]

10 minutes ago, wimpy said:

Of course not, but if it fails, you are done.

 

yes you are right! i had an ice car and the engine failed and I was done ... 

Edited 2 hours ago by motdaeng
typo

[wimpy]

8 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

yes you are right! a had a ice car and the engine failed and I was done ... 

Me too, but it was repairable, hence the vehicle still retained some value.

Edited 2 hours ago by wimpy

[CallumWK]

11 minutes ago, wimpy said:

Of course not, but if it fails, you are done.

 

Not entirely true. While an EV now is ideal to go shopping at the nearest 7/11, at that point you will still be able to visit your neighbours, if they have a charging point so you can get back home as well.

[newbee2022]

19 hours ago, retarius said:

Porches

Unknown brand 😳😂

[motdaeng]

12 minutes ago, wimpy said:

Me too, but it was repairable, hence the vehicle still retained some value.

 

you absolutely right, it is the same as for an ev car ... normally repairable and still retaining some value ...  

you seem to have some very basic knowledge about ev cars at least ...

[OneMoreFarang]

40 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

a battery warranty of 8 years don't mean the battery has to be replaced or can not be used anymore ... 

it's the same as for a ice car, after the warranty you still can use the car as normal as before 

 

If the battery has a defect, then likely it has to be replaced.

Even if 99% of the battery is ok, if 1% is a risk issue, then it has to be replaced.

And this is not just the age and the usage. Maybe the car has an accident and the battery (case) is slightly damaged, that is reason enough to get rid of it, because the alternative would be driving around with a high risk battery.

 

47 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

i’m sure that as batteries continue to improve, ev-haters will have to find a new reason to criticize them ...

 

I am also sure they will improve. Personally, I don't see myself as a hater. I am just looking realistically and the risks.

Fact is that the battery is a big part of the value of the car. If the battery is damaged, then the car loses a big part of its value. And if the battery is in an unknown condition, and might fail "soon", then sane people won't spend much money on a risky investment.

 

The way batteries are built, it is unlikely that they will ever be something which will be repairable. If it is damaged, then throw it away and buy a new one, or secondhand battery.

 

I think it would be great if electric cars would have no battery problems (fire, charging, long life). But currently they have these problems. Should we ignore them? Or is it for many people probably the better choice to buy a normal car?

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by OneMoreFarang

[AndreasHG]

4 hours ago, jippytum said:

On a plus note for BYD Warren Buffet bought 10% of the company three years ago. 

 

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway acquired a 10% stake in BYD for $230 million in 2008.

In recent years the company aggressively reduced its stake in BYD and currently holds a 4.936% stake worth $280 million.

 

BYD Company Limited: Shareholders Board Members Managers and Company Profile | CNE100001526 | MarketScreener

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How much longer? Like 10 or 15 years?

If I would buy a BEV when it's 5 years old and still has 10 years warranty on the battery, then I wouldn't worry.

But if it had i.e. only 7 years warranty and I want to sell the car in maybe 3 years, what then? Who will buy a car which can suddenly have scrap value? 

 

 

 

Some manufacturers guarantee for 8 years, some for 10 years....and maybe others for different periods. I agree, if 15 years then that would make a purchase worthwhile. But remember, this is a guarantee against battery failure. It's inevitable that range of the battery will reduce over time. A car which started with a range of 400 km on a full battery when new might now only have a range of 200 or 250 km after 7 or 8 years. That kinda sucks, and that does not happen to petrol engine cars.

[Bandersnatch]

18 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Woke EV madness.  Hopefully, the EV stupidity will all be gone in the next several years.

 

Certainly a lot of stupidity in evidence on this forum from people who don't own EVs and clearly know nothing about them. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, mstevens said:

Some manufacturers guarantee for 8 years, some for 10 years....and maybe others for different periods. I agree, if 15 years then that would make a purchase worthwhile. But remember, this is a guarantee against battery failure. It's inevitable that range of the battery will reduce over time. A car which started with a range of 400 km on a full battery when new might now only have a range of 200 or 250 km after 7 or 8 years. That kinda sucks, and that does not happen to petrol engine cars.

 

I think if the problem is only that the battery has no full power anymore, that would not be a huge issue. When people buy old ICE cars they should realistically not expect that they can drive such a car with full power all the time. They will/should drive it like an old car, "slow" and steady.

 

The problem with batteries in EVs is the total failure because that means total replacement which is very expensive.

Obviously ICE cars also get old. But many of them can be restored little by little which is a much lower risk.

 

 

[jippytum]

14 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

 

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway acquired a 10% stake in BYD for $230 million in 2008.

In recent years the company aggressively reduced its stake in BYD and currently holds a 4.936% stake worth $280 million.

 

BYD Company Limited: Shareholders Board Members Managers and Company Profile | CNE100001526 | MarketScreener

not a bad investment for Buffet recouped his original stake. 

Selling Some BYD more to do with import tariffs than dislike of the brand. 

[Gweiloman]

19 hours ago, stratocaster said:

From the Thai media. The group, Thai BYD owners association have petitioned the government about the unfair discount practices that have seen some members  claim that their BYD EV has lost 340,000 in the last12 months on resale value. Also they were promised from BYD, free charging at dedicated charging points which turn out to be only open at certain times and normally there is a large queue.

Some charging stations are available for free charging only during off peak hours (22:00 - 09:00 weekdays and all weekends and public holidays). Some others are available 24/7. 
 

Sometimes, during busy hours, there is a queue. Sometimes, you can arrive and start charging immediately. Luck of the draw, especially when it’s free.

[wimpy]

26 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

you absolutely right, it is the same as for an ev car ... normally repairable and still retaining some value ...  

you seem to have some very basic knowledge about ev cars at least ...

We were talking about battery failure - usually not repairable.

[CallumWK]

5 hours ago, ronster said:

Like buying a pair of trainers and two weeks later the sports shop that sold them has a 25% off sale !

Would they be going back to the shop asking for their 25% back from when they paid full price 🙄🙈

 

Not the same. A permanent discount, followed by more permanent discounts, is not the same as a temporary sale

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Certainly a lot of stupidity in evidence on this forum from people who don't own EVs and clearly know nothing about them. 

 

 

So, according to you, if someone does not own an EV, that means that someone can't possibly be informed about EVs.

Interesting.

But then, I don't expect much logic from people who buy such cars.

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

28 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

28 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

What a stupid graphic! How about.

What is the topic?

Inform yourself before you take a position.

After you informed yourself you should mostly see pros and cons.

Don't take a position and ignore the rest what you learned.

If you have to make a decision then weight what is best in for your situation. If you think an EV is good for you, fine. But that doesn't make it good for everybody.

Gather more information, and maybe change your mind.

Don't ignore fact only because they don't confirm what you think you know.

 

And: "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable position. 

 

[Bandersnatch]

As usual the main concern for those who don’t own an EV is depreciation. So let’s consider some evidence.

 

I purchased a D segment Saloon/Sedan in the same class as a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord. My car is the top of the range BYD Seal AWD Performance so I will compare with the respective top of the range cars.

 

The Camry and Accord cost ฿200,000 more than the Seal 

 

 

 

I will ignore the fact that the Seal came with ฿230,000 worth of freebies 

 

 

 

So what is the dealer price for an Accord and a Camry after 10 years?

 

 

 

 

 

So if a BYD Seal AWD Performance is worth ฿200,000 after 10 years then the depreciation would be the same.

Edited 1 hour ago by Bandersnatch

[Bandersnatch]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

So, according to you, if someone does not own an EV, that means that someone can't possibly be informed about EVs.

Interesting.

But then, I don't expect much logic from people who buy such cars.

 

 

 

 

Clearly the poster I was responding to “Woke EV Madness” “EV Stupidity” had failed to demonstrate that they were informed 

[Bandersnatch]

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you think an EV is good for you, fine. But that doesn't make it good for everybody

 

I have said many, many time in my “EVs in Thailand” Discussion that EVs are not for everyone.

 

If you can’t use your phone to pay at a self checkout at Tops then you will find EV apps a challenge.

 

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And: "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable position. 

 

Agreed

 

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Gather more information, and maybe change your mind.

 

I have been driving EVs in Thailand for over 4 years. I own 2 EVs and an electric motorbike.

 

My experience with my BYD Seal AWD Performance:

 

I love being able to charge it at home for free from excess solar power

I love not having to go to a stinky gas station to fill up
I love that it comes with over 6 Tesla powerwalls of backup power for my house which means I don’t need PEA anymore
I love the instant torque
I love the 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds without spinning my wheels 
I love that it has perfect 50:50 weight distribution
I love that it has an incredible low centre of gravity and goes round corners like it’s on rails
I love the drag coefficient of just 0.219 Cd which is better than a Porsche Taycan
I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the brake pedal
I love the adaptive suspension
I love that the battery pack is a structural component, increasing torsional stiffness and so increasing handling limits
I love the Torque vectoring which sends power to which wheel needs it most
I love that it only has one gear  
I love that it has a very long wheel base
I love that it is so silent to drive for me and other road users
I love that I am not poisoning the pedestrians and motorbike riders around me when I drive or sit at the traffic lights
I love that it has a front storage compartment where the engine would be in an ICE car
I love being able to switch on the aircon while I’m still in the restaurant
I love being able to do “Find My Car” because the car has a 5G chip

I love being able to unlock my car with my smart watch
I love the 8 year warranty for the car and battery
I love 8 year completely free servicing and breakdown recovery
I love the way it looks

 

I don’t like the abuse and name calling I get from EV haters

I don’t like having to fact check the bs most people post about EVs 

 

Will I be changing my mind and buying a Camry or an Accord next time?

 

No!

Edited 1 hour ago by Bandersnatch

[Lacessit]

17 hours ago, KhunLA said:

.

 

ICEVs won't be around much longer ... so how can you sell them in the future.  The ignorance won't last for ever, and people won't be buying 2nd hand ICEVs.

 

 

Incorrect. ICE's will be around for another 30 years, minimum.

 

My Vios is close to 20 years old. My mechanic claims it has another 5-10 years left.

 

That means any reliable ICE sold today will still be around at the 30 year mark, and AFAIK the ICE market has not collapsed overnight. It is still 86% of market share in Thailand.

 

Anyone who buys a secondhand ICE with 50,000 km on the odometer knows they can expect another 200,000 km before any major maintenance. With EV's, the track record is far less

 

established.