Spain Threatens Hard Border at Gibraltar Amid Post-Brexit Tensions Over 'Generous' Deal

[RayC]

38 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Why not completely ignore what the people of Gibraltar want?

 

They only live there.

 

Where have I suggested that the views of the people of Gibraltar should be ignored?

[newbee2022]

When UK will give back NI to the Republik of Ireland ?Long Time overdue.

The fight is not over!

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

Why not completely ignore what the people of Gibraltar want?

 

They only live there.

I would presume the people living in Gibraltar want to be able to enter Spain easily.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

When UK will give back NI to the Republik of Ireland ?Long Time overdue.

The fight is not over!

This from the poster who further up the page castigated @Cameroni for making irrelevant posts when he mentioned Melila & Cueta.

 

Yet somehow Northern Ireland is relevant!

[newbee2022]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I would presume the people living in Gibraltar want to be able to enter Spain easily.

Yes, most are working in Spain

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I would presume the people living in Gibraltar want to be able to enter Spain easily.

There have been 2 referendums in recent years. The overwhelming majority Of the Gibraltar people voted to remain British.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

 

Try not to presume what other people want. What you presume may well not be what the people concerned actually want.

[vinny41]

More than half (53 Percent) of the labour force are resident in Spain or are non Gibraltarians. According to the Government of Gibraltar's statistics, around 45 Percent of the total employee jobs, and 58% of the private sector jobs, are held by frontier workers (employees who are normally resident in Spain but are employed in Gibraltar). Around 63 Percent of the frontier workers are Spanish nationals. More than half (55 Percent) of the private sector employee jobs are held by persons who are not Gibraltarians or Other British nationalities. The public sector, on the other hand, employs mainly Gibraltarians and other British (90 Percent) [90]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Economy

It seems that the majority of the workforce are Spanish nationals living in Spain

[billd766]

11 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Where have I suggested that the views of the people of Gibraltar should be ignored?

You didn't even bother to think or ask what the people of Gibraltar even want, and they are the ones who will be affected the most.

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There have been 2 referendums in recent years. The overwhelming majority Of the Gibraltar people voted to remain British.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

 

Try not to presume what other people want. What you presume may well not be what the people concerned actually want.

Strange post. Maybe what you presume that i presume is not what i presume.

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You didn't even bother to think or ask what the people of Gibraltar even want, and they are the ones who will be affected the most.

I wonder what the residents of Gibralter will want, if not acceding to Spain's demands means that they have to put up with a hard border rather than allow Spanish troops to be stationed there.

Edited October 14 by placeholder

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Yes, most are working in Spain

Which will be not possible soon if something is not done. Britons will not be allowed in the Schengen area for more than 90 days in a 180 days period.

[vinny41]

27 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Yes, most are working in Spain

That is incorrect the majority of the workforce working in Gibralter are Spanish nationals. Living and residents in Spain

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Which will be not possible soon if something is not done. Britons will not be allowed in the Schengen area for more than 90 days in a 180 days period.

Not if they have a work permit.

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I wonder what the residents of Gibraltar will want, if not acceding to Spain's demands means that they have to put up with a hard border rather than allow Spanish troops to be stationed there.

It wouldn't be the first time that the border was closed, and I don't expect it to be the last.

[newbee2022]

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That is incorrect the majority of the workforce working in Gibralter are Spanish nationals. Living and residents in Spain

At present Gibraltar is an attraction with kind of immigration as a foreign country. This might be shifting if Gibraltar would belong to Spain, another rock at the coast.

The Spaniards who are working in Gibraltar benefitting from the status quo. And sure, there are a lot (15.000) Spaniards working there. 32.000 inhabitants in Gibraltar 

[newbee2022]

35 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Which will be not possible soon if something is not done. Britons will not be allowed in the Schengen area for more than 90 days in a 180 days period.

Well, that might be a problem. However, when I visited Gibraltar 3 years ago, a taxi driver told me about the benefits of being a resident of Gibraltar.( Free housing, lowest taxes, lowest price for fuel, UK passport, special car plate GBZ.) They are happy people. Not similar to those on the frosty island.

[candide]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I wonder what the residents of Gibralter will want, if not acceding to Spain's demands means that they have to put up with a hard border rather than allow Spanish troops to be stationed there.

It's not about stationing troops, it's about having the Spanish police controlling entry into the Shengen zone at the airport.

There are hundreds of thousand travellers who use Gibraltar airport for their holidays in Spain.

 

"By the end of 2022, negotiations were deadlocked over the issue of policing passport control at Gibraltar Airport.[57] Talks remained stalled during 2023, with Spain insisting that its Policía Nacional control entry into the Schengen area (as is the norm on all Spanish entry points to Schengen) and the UK demanding that the work be done by Frontex officers (who elsewhere only supplement national authorities by exception).[45]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_Brexit_on_Gibraltar

Edited October 14 by candide

[RayC]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

You didn't even bother to think or ask what the people of Gibraltar even want, and they are the ones who will be affected the most.

 

And that will be because I made no reference to Gibraltar's sovereignity, other than to say that imo it is easier for Spain to raise it as an issue now that the UK has left the EU.

[billd766]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

And that will be because I made no reference to Gibraltar's sovereignity, other than to say that imo it is easier for Spain to raise it as an issue now that the UK has left the EU.

It was made quite clear at the 2 referendums that the majority of the Gibraltar people want nothing to do with Spain.

[RayC]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It was made quite clear at the 2 referendums that the majority of the Gibraltar people want nothing to do with Spain.

 

That may well be the case, but that doesn't change my opinion that Spain will be more inclined to raise the issue of Gibraltar's sovereignity once again now that the UK is outside the EU.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

It was made quite clear at the 2 referendums that the majority of the Gibraltar people want nothing to do with Spain.

They want nothing to do with Spain? Well, then, if that's the case then a closed border shouldn't even be an issue.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

They want nothing to do with Spain? Well, then, if that's the case then a closed border shouldn't even be an issue.

But it was an issue with the Spanish when the Spaniards living in La Linea, who work in Gibraltar couldn't cross the border to go to work

[vinny41]

9 hours ago, RayC said:

 

That may well be the case, but that doesn't change my opinion that Spain will be more inclined to raise the issue of Gibraltar's sovereignity once again now that the UK is outside the EU.

When the Uk was part of the EU it didn't stop Spain raising the Issue of Gibraltar many times as detailed here 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Gibraltar

Spain tried to move the goalposts last Friday but came unstuck as their actions also affected Spainish Nationals trying to enter Gibraltar

Tit-for-tat immigration controls cause rush hour border chaos

https://www.chronicle.gi/tit-for-tat-immigration-controls-cause-rush-hour-border-chaos/

[RayC]

On 10/14/2024 at 5:49 PM, vinny41 said:

When the Uk was part of the EU it didn't stop Spain raising the Issue of Gibraltar many times as detailed here 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Gibraltar

Spain tried to move the goalposts last Friday but came unstuck as their actions also affected Spainish Nationals trying to enter Gibraltar

Tit-for-tat immigration controls cause rush hour border chaos

https://www.chronicle.gi/tit-for-tat-immigration-controls-cause-rush-hour-border-chaos/

 

Spain has always been vocal about its' claim to sovereignty over Gibraltar and that predates its' membership of the EC/EU. However, my point is that the voices from Madrid may become louder as a result of Brexit. Spain may find more support from Brussels and/or other EU member states now that the UK is outside the bloc. Indeed, it started to happen during the negotiations themselves. Your Wikipedia link states that, " ... the EU does not consider Gibraltar to be part of the United Kingdom". Such a statement would not only have been unnecessary prior to the referendum, but would have been inconceivable. 

[placeholder]

On 10/14/2024 at 9:56 PM, billd766 said:

But it was an issue with the Spanish when the Spaniards living in La Linea, who work in Gibraltar couldn't cross the border to go to work

And not an issue for the residents of Gibraltar when the workers couldn't cross the border? Services and commerce in general weren't affected?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

And not an issue for the residents of Gibraltar when the workers couldn't cross the border? Services and commerce in general weren't affected?

I would think that commerce slowed down. Dock yard work would certainly have done.

 

OTOH for the Spanish workers, no work = no pay.

 

It was a double edged sword. For the Spanish government, it would have been a diplomatic problem. For Spanish workers, it would mean a choice of finding another job in Spain for less money or going hungry and going into debt.

 

Gibraltar is still there, despite Spain and the UK Labour government.

 

Freedom to choose is important, don't you think?