Smoking tobacco or Cannabis vs Buddhist Meditation Practice, major impediment or not?

[rockyysdt]

The meditation practice I'm familiar with revolves around breath.

 

• Observation of breath.
• Breathing in, breathing out.
• Observation of the space between the in breath and the out breath.
• The effects of Short, or no breath, vs deep breath.
• Achieving a long regular, relaxed breath without feeling winded or strained.

 

With cannabis shops one sees these days just about everywhere I sometimes feel temptation.

 

But I also I automatically visualise the damage regular smoking might have on my practice.

I think of my lungs as a passport to successful Meditation and Mindfulness.

This thought generates an aversion in me towards smoking of any kind.

 

I think, why would I harm one of the most powerful tools available to me in pursuing my quest?

 

Don't know what others might have experienced mixing the two??

 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

With cannabis shops one sees these days just about everywhere I sometimes feel temptation. ... But I also I automatically visualise the damage regular smoking might have on my practice.\

Moderation, as with any vice.  I indulge in less than 1 doobie (joint/ganga cig) a month.

 

The other night, matter of fact, though didn't help me enjoy the latest 'Alien' movie, and just a decent time killer.

 

Just petting the dog, or relaxing after sex (not w/dog), is meditating / relaxing enough.  Walks in the park, looking for critters to take a snap of, or operating the drones.

 

Doing nothing on front or back porch, watching the birds.

Edited October 17 by KhunLA

[khaowong1]

A lot of senior monks I know, chew betel nut.  I've heard it has a similar experience to pot.  Never tried it so don't really know. 

[rockyysdt]

On 10/18/2024 at 12:39 AM, khaowong1 said:

A lot of senior monks I know, chew betel nut.  I've heard it has a similar experience to pot.  Never tried it so don't really know. 

I used to place Monks on a pedestal.

 

I learned that Monk hood, amongst other things, offers devotees freely given resource allowing them to focus on their practice.

 

The difference between a Monk and anyone else, is that Monks have devoted their life towards practice, and that the community freely offers resource in order for the Monks to focus on their journey.

 

When I learn of stories where Monks regularly chew betel nut, I think firstly that Monks, like everyone, are subject to aversion, delusion, and greed.

 

 

[rockyysdt]

On 10/17/2024 at 10:52 PM, KhunLA said:

Moderation, as with any vice.  I indulge in less than 1 doobie (joint/ganga cig) a month.

 

 

Moderation is important, but isn't it important what you choose to moderate?

 

Especially if what you moderate can eventually affect your goals.

Edited October 18 by rockyysdt

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Moderation is important, but isn't it important what you choose to moderate?

 

Especially if what you moderate can eventually affect your goals.

If it affects your goals, then you're not doing a very good job at moderation, and probably should quit all together.

 

I smoked a lot more, and drank a lot more alcohol pre 50 yrs old.  Didn't seem to interfere with my early retirement plans.  

 

Went from weekend warrior to monthly monthly warrior after retiring (46 yrs) old.  To now hardly indulge at all at 69, even less so with alcohol.  Neither drug falls into a healthy thing to do, especially if abused.

 

Common sense should tell people alcohol is poison to the body, and people should quit or live with their choices.  

 

Both will eventually kill you, if something else doesn't sooner.  No desire to rush the inevitable.  Especially since most everything I do is more enjoyable than taking stimulants.  That's a kid's game, been there, done that ... survived.

 

Marketing to the weak minded, keeps people addicted to drugs.  Don't know how they ignore the negative effect it has on their bodies.  And yet ... they continue to kill themselves.

 

I only smoke a doobie now because I simply have it, and do enjoy with a movie now and then.  But with all the crap they put out, once a month is a stretch.  I've had the ganga for about 2 yrs now, and will probably give it away or trash it soon.  I don't know anyone locally that smokes it, so off to the compost pile soon.

Edited October 19 by KhunLA

[jippytum]

Yes. But does not apply to many Thai monks. 

[Iron Tongue]

On 10/17/2024 at 6:39 AM, khaowong1 said:

A lot of senior monks I know, chew betel nut.  I've heard it has a similar experience to pot.  Never tried it so don't really know. 

Oh no, no, no.

Betelnuts contain alkaloids, the same ingredient found in coca leaves grown in South America.  It is a stimulant and euphoric, and when processed, becomes a product called cocaine.

I've chewed betel nut before for kicks and no, it is nothing like smoking weed.  

[Tarteso]

[markwhite]

On 10/17/2024 at 4:23 PM, rockyysdt said:

Achieving a long regular, relaxed breath without feeling winded or strained.

 

You seem to be referring to Anapanasati?

 

If a long relaxed breath happens, it's because conditions are right for it to happen. "Achieving" suggests setting a goal, which leads to a result of either success or failure, which is "my success" or "my failure" which feeds the ego. Usual guidance is to observe and let go, not to "achieve".

 

(semantics aside)

[markwhite]

9 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

The difference between a Monk and anyone else, is that Monks have devoted their life towards practice, and that the community freely offers resource in order for the Monks to focus on their journey

 

Admirable when that is the case, though I've had to accept the difference between a monk and anyone else is they have taken vows and wear an orange robe. They are still people who screw up in any usual way that people screw up. Taking the vows can be a threshold to a life focussed on practice, but sadly it can also be an escape for the criminally accused and those who have no intention of living a life of practice.

 

I wish the Sangha would self-police in a way that resulted in there being no place for those who are not truly committed. Sadly, it doesn't and Thai Buddhism has suffered as a result.

[wwest5829]

My understanding of the Buddha’s teaching is to avoid any substance which duos/enhances or otherwise interferes with your being naturally in the moment, being aware of carrying out the eightfold path. Many Buddhists, like many Christians, etc. are not strict in the adherence to the teachings. With that, I bid you a good evening as I am off to watch TV and sip my red wine. Ha! Yes, I am aware, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging and whosoever is there deceived is not wise”.

[connda]

Smoking tobacco or Cannabis vs Buddhist Meditation Practice, major impediment or not?

 

Tobacco?  No.  Some the the renowned Forest meditation masters where nicotine addicts.  Nicotine is simply highly addictive but it doesn't have any psychoactive properties.  But imho it's stupid to smoke tobacco.  I've enough friends and family who died of long-term tobacco use.  It should be outlawed as far as I'm concerned.

Cannabis?  Not conducive with Meditation practice as it has psychoactive properties that are counter to meditative states of consciousness.  If you're going to smoke pot, you're not going far with meditation. 

 

[RichardColeman]

i am not really sure monks should smoke anything, mostly due to alcohol consumption !

[dinsdale]

On 10/17/2024 at 4:23 PM, rockyysdt said:

The meditation practice I'm familiar with revolves around breath.

 

• Observation of breath.
• Breathing in, breathing out.
• Observation of the space between the in breath and the out breath.
• The effects of Short, or no breath, vs deep breath.
• Achieving a long regular, relaxed breath without feeling winded or strained.

 

With cannabis shops one sees these days just about everywhere I sometimes feel temptation.

 

But I also I automatically visualise the damage regular smoking might have on my practice.

I think of my lungs as a passport to successful Meditation and Mindfulness.

This thought generates an aversion in me towards smoking of any kind.

 

I think, why would I harm one of the most powerful tools available to me in pursuing my quest?

 

Don't know what others might have experienced mixing the two??

 

I know monks that smoke cigarettes and dope.

[rockyysdt]

23 hours ago, connda said:

Smoking tobacco or Cannabis vs Buddhist Meditation Practice, major impediment or not?

 

Tobacco?  No.  Some the the renowned Forest meditation masters where nicotine addicts.

My thinking was that breath is fundamental to practice.

I felt that chronic smoking compromises the quality of  breath.

The fine particles associated from smoking can accumulate in the lungs and lead to shortness of breath, worsen asthma, and reduce the ability of the air sacs to transfer oxygen and carbon dioxide.

 

Is it possible that there are always examples of alcoholics & heavy smokers such as the forest master, who may do well, but are the exception?

 

[rockyysdt]

On 10/19/2024 at 8:29 PM, wwest5829 said:

and sip my red wine. Ha! Yes, I am aware, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging and whosoever is there deceived is not wise”.

When I've been mindful enough of late, I've been observing myself.

I've noticed that after a drink or two,  I tend to more easily break resolutions, and/or attempts to change bad habits.

It ends in a full circle of resolve to change, ignore temptation, have a drink, and cheat.

Cheating might involve many things, such as eating poorly, drinking, missing exercise, missing practice, having too many coffees, or even thoughts of having a smoke.

In the mean time life ebbs away as you get closer to running out of time (tu es mort).

Edited October 20 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

On 10/19/2024 at 8:12 PM, markwhite said:

I wish the Sangha would self-police in a way that resulted in there being no place for those who are not truly committed. Sadly, it doesn't and Thai Buddhism has suffered as a result.

A great idea.

It's sad, as the poor behavior we witness gives many the excuse to believe that it's the teaching which is wrong.