WrLife still ok?

[Jingthing]

Do you agree with General Kelly that Trump is a fascist?

 

Unless you've been living under a rock you have heard by now that ex Chief of Staff General Kelly (very high level role and long serving working very closely with Trump) has stated that he believes Trump is a fascist.

 

He's not telling people how to vote of course. If people want to vote for a fascist, that's their right.

 

This poll is not telling people how to vote in this poll either. As usual, it is for discussion and entertainment purposes only.

 

 

John Kelly says Trump is a 'fascist' who while in office repeatedly praised Hitler - Los Angeles Times

 

 

John Kelly says Trump is a ‘fascist’ who while in office repeatedly praised Hitler

 

Retired Marine Gen. John F. Kelly, who was Donald Trump’s longest-serving White House chief of staff, has warned that his former boss, if elected again, would govern like a dictator, that he lacks empathy, and that he has no understanding of the U.S. Constitution.

While other Trump administration officials have criticized the former president, including from the stage of the Democratic National Convention in August, Kelly is perhaps the most high-profile, telling the New York Times in an interview published two weeks before election day that he had grave concerns about Trump’s fitness for office.

“Certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he’s certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators — he has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure,” Kelly said.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24 by Jingthing

[Cameroni]

Harris is a feminist, that's much worse. She praised "Me Too".

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Harris is a feminist, that's much worse. She praised "Me Too".

Feminism is much worse than Fascism?

The many many millions who perished due to the inherent racism and warmongering of Fascism and associated creeds between 1930 and 1945 may offer s different perspective!

[expat_4_life]

It's a ridiculous poll, IMO
Kelly left the WH in Jan 2019 and completely forgot all about this until 2 weeks before the election. Got it

Maybe the "Trump-is-Hitler" thing could work if Trump were unknown. But.... He's been famous for 5 decades. Beloved by US elites. The star of a hit NBC prime-time show. Oprah suggested he should run for President. Hung out with rappers and billionaires. The Clintons went to his wedding.

And -- just 3 years ago! - he was President for 4 years and nobody except MSNBC viewers remembers death camps, wars of conquest or other Hitlerian behavior. And it's been all tried before, including this same John Kelly crap. Has the stench of desperation.

Image below shows former President Bill Clinton and former First Lady and NY Senator Hillary Clinton celebrate the wedding of German dictator Adolf Hitler to long-time girlfriend Eva Braun.

The BS that works among US media elites is regarded as too blatantly stupid by the general public.

Edited Friday at 01:56 AM by expat_4_life

[bannork]

Trump is not only a fascist, he's a stupid fascist who is exploited by Putin as a useful idiot 

[Tug]

I like how general Kelley ticked off point by point the definition of a fascist he also drew the comparison of trump’s behavior……or if you prefer Rex tillersons thoughts on trump….hes an imbecile.not only does Putin play him little Kim used him like shop rag….

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, bannork said:

Trump is not only a fascist, he's a stupid fascist who is exploited by Putin as a useful idiot 

Yet Americans may soon bring him to power.

The champagne merchants in Moscow are ready.

Consider the fools that think Trump 2.0 would be the same as Trump 1.0.

 

 

[John Drake]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

I like how general Kelley ticked off point by point the definition of a fascist he also drew the comparison of trump’s behavior

 

Which fascism? This term is being thrown around by an ahistorical, illiterate mob right now. People such as Kelly are more likely to fit the definition than the people he thinks are fascist. Look into it. Why not start with a well grounded text that acknowledges the differences among fascists themselves? Begin with Ernst Nolte's work, which was translated into English with the title, The Three Faces of Fascism. Nolte writes three different portraits of fascism, taking as his subjects Action francaise, Mussolini's Italian Fascism, and Hitler's National Socialism. Out of a common cultural origin, they developed differently yet in a complementary form. It's a shame Nolte didn't include Franco's Falangists. Because there the differences show up more clearly. For example, Franco's thing was Freemasons. He went after Freemasons. Meanwhile, in Italy, the Grand Council of Fascists had over 50 percent of its members as Freemasons. Mussolini, at one point, was an honorary Freemason. The Council, btw, first positioned itself against Hitler when he came to power, and among the reasons was the Grand Council was in those days philo-Semitic and opposed Hitler's anti-Semitism. Here is a short article on one of the fascist quadrumvirs, Italo Balbo:

 https://chicago.suntimes.com/2018/6/26/18455986/italo-balbo-a-complex-and-controversial-figure-from-italy-to-grant-park

[Captain Monday]

Fascism, the corporate State. 
 

“Italian Fascism involved a corporatist political system in which the economy was collectively managed by employers, workers and state officials by formal mechanisms at the national level.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism#:~:text=Italian Fascism involved a corporatist,mechanisms at the national level.

[Inderpland]

Ex-Trump aides emerge to back Kelly’s harsh warnings

 

'More than a dozen former Trump administration officials on Friday came out in support of former chief of staff John Kelly, who went on the record this week to say the former president fits the definition of a fascist, would govern like a dictator and has no concept of the Constitution.

The letter was signed by Trump administration officials, including Kevin Carroll, former senior counselor to Kelly; former deputy press secretary Sarah Matthews; former assistant secretary of homeland security Elizabeth Neumann; former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci; former chief of staff at the Dept. of Homeland Security Miles Taylor; former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham; former press secretary to the vice president Alyssa Farah Griffin; and former national security adviser to vice president Pence, Olivia Troye.'

[Inderpland]

Double post.

Edited Saturday at 10:04 AM by Inderpland

[MalcolmB]

No. 
He is too woke. 

[connda]

General Kelly doesn't know what the term "Fascist" actually means.

In his case, he is using the term "Fascist" as a word to demean and degrade Trump.  Basically he is name calling.

The fact is that most US politicians implicitly (or explicitly) support a Fascist form of government, the term "Fascist" in this case being used in its classic form as Mussolini would have used it.  Essentially the public-private (government/corporate) partnership which seeks to benefit the stakeholders (government and corporate interests) at the expense of the public itself. And it does so in a centralized, authoritarian manner.  As George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it."  A "Fascist" is someone who supports such a form of governance.

So calling Trump a "Fascist" is missing the point that virtually all of those in Congress and the Administration, in the Pentagon, and the Washington bureaucracy are essentially defacto, Fascists.  They work for the government but integrate tightly with corporate interests via lobbies and corporate marketing.  Given that definition, Gen John Kelly is not doubt as much of a "Fascist" as Trump, Biden, Harris, or any other critter scurrying around in the swamp that is Washington DC.

"Then Trump is Hitler!!! Grrrrr."

That's better! 

[connda]

"America's not Fascist!  Grrrrr."

🤔 Hummmm...just a coincidence 'eh? 

 

 

[Inderpland]

1 hour ago, connda said:

"America's not Fascist!  Grrrrr."

🤔 Hummmm...just a coincidence 'eh? 

 

 

Tinfoil hat time!

[Jingthing]

If you please you can substitute authoritarian or autocratic for fascist.

 

In other words, in the context of Trump do you think he wants to rule in a dictatorial style such as Putin, Xi, Orban, Kim, Hitler etc. or does he want to be a normal rule of law respecting president in the style of a western liberal democracy?

 

To me the answer is totally obvious. He tells us the former publicly. You don’t need Kelly's revelations to see that very clearly.

Edited Saturday at 01:46 PM by Jingthing

[connda]

 It's ironic that those who are the most likely to call someone else a "Fascist" are also more likely to embrace that exact totalitarianism that Fascism extols.  Coincidence?  Nope. The primary problem with people like this is they are dumber than a box of hammers, although they think they are smart.  Clever?  Maybe.  Intelligent?  No so much. Therefore their single most effective line of defense is ridicule and spewing the exact hatred they claim that those who are "haters" spew.  Why?  Well, when you run out of word-salad you just devolve to name calling.

"You're a Fascist!!!"

Try looking in a mirror.

[connda]

2 hours ago, Inderpland said:

Tinfoil hat time!

Speaking of tin-foil hats - watch out if Trump is elected.  Project 2025 is gonna get 'cha, and your little dog too!

[G_Money]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:55 AM, expat_4_life said:

It's a ridiculous poll, IMO
Kelly left the WH in Jan 2019 and completely forgot all about this until 2 weeks before the election. Got it

Maybe the "Trump-is-Hitler" thing could work if Trump were unknown. But.... He's been famous for 5 decades. Beloved by US elites. The star of a hit NBC prime-time show. Oprah suggested he should run for President. Hung out with rappers and billionaires. The Clintons went to his wedding.

And -- just 3 years ago! - he was President for 4 years and nobody except MSNBC viewers remembers death camps, wars of conquest or other Hitlerian behavior. And it's been all tried before, including this same John Kelly crap. Has the stench of desperation.

Image below shows former President Bill Clinton and former First Lady and NY Senator Hillary Clinton celebrate the wedding of German dictator Adolf Hitler to long-time girlfriend Eva Braun.

The BS that works among US media elites is regarded as too blatantly stupid by the general public.

I love that photo!  During happy times they were all friends.  Even Hillary.

 

Who would of thought?

 

“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned “

You better believe it!

Edited Saturday at 03:37 PM by G_Money

[G_Money]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

Speaking of tin-foil hats - watch out if Trump is elected.  Project 2025 is gonna get 'cha, and your little dog too!

Project 2025.  The modern day boogeyman!

[John Drake]

9 minutes ago, connda said:

 It's ironic that those who are the most likely to call someone else a "Fascist" are also more likely to embrace that exact totalitarianism that Fascism extols.  Coincidence?  Nope. The primary problem with people like this is they are dumber than a box of hammers, although they think they are smart.  Clever?  Maybe.  Intelligent?  No so much. Therefore their single most effective line of defense is ridicule and spewing the exact hatred they claim that those who are "haters" spew.  Why?  Well, when you run out of word-salad you just devolve to name calling.

"You're a Fascist!!!"

Try looking in a mirror.

 

"Fascism" in these discussions is being used as an adolescent smear word. You're right. The simians attempting a type of political discourse with it can't quite bring themselves to come out and hurl the "Nazi" epithet, because that would mean to be dismissed as an unserious person, a hyperbole filled hysteric. So they use Hitler and Fascism. Of course Europe and America were not only tightly allied to "Fascist" governments throughout the Cold War but, as you say, contain elements of Fascism within their very own core ideology. 

Edited Saturday at 03:37 PM by John Drake

[connda]

On 10/26/2024 at 6:53 AM, bannork said:

Trump is not only a fascist, he's a stupid fascist who is exploited by Putin as a useful idiot 

Yep - and Putin's Ruskie satellites are beaming propaganda into the third-eye of Blue State voters and twisting their minds to vote from Trump.  And the DPRK's Kim is sending Trump instructions to help Putin win the war in Ukraine so that he can built Trump Towers in Kiev and Pyongyang.  Trump is Hitler!!!  Grrrrr!