Addiction

[Thingamabob]

Vitamin B12 can, in some cases. help with addiction to the likes of Tramadol. Worth a try. It is available in capsule form from most top pharmacists in Thailand.

[carlyai]

One thing for pain and mental state is an app named Headspace.

As I said in a previous post, I worked with a Clinical Psychologist for about 6 months.

(Luckily my company paid all the bills.)

He taught me hypnosis. At the end I could control my panic attacks and get my pain level from about 8 down to 4, which was huge for me.

For years and still today I use the app. Maybe because I've had a lot of meditation experience, but now 20mins can take me to a calm place and help set up the rest of the day.

The Headspace app was origionally started by a monk who spent years at monostaries. He has since left the app. but some of the meditation programs in the app are still great for controlling pain and generally being in a good headspace.

For me I just repeat the 365 day program, but there is a specific Pain Managment meditation.

As with addiction, meditation takes time to work.

Also the simple act every morning of walking out to give rice to the monks, sets up the day. 

Like in the old days we used say The Lord's Prayer before eating.

I'm not really religious, but when you have 24/7 pain your mind eventually gets possed by the pain and you think about it all the time, so if you can include meditation to help break the pain cycle, why wouldn't you?

 

 

[Badrabbit]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

How much are you assuming a simple doctor consultation is going to cost?

I was referring to in patient re-hab, I know a doctor would be about 2500bht for a consultation.

Edited October 28 by Badrabbit

[kingstonkid]

On 10/26/2024 at 6:16 PM, CanadaSam said:

With any addiction, tapering off is the way to go.

 

But it takes a lot of awareness, and effort, to do it.

 

Keep track of when you take the pills, start by reducing intake by 10-20% per day, in about a week, you will be down to negligible amounts, when you can stop completely without any ill effects.

 

BTW the same goes for alcohol.

 

On 10/25/2024 at 10:37 PM, Badrabbit said:

I've got my self into a big big mess, been using Tramadol since my pains started approx 4 yrs ago(I think) taking 1 50mg tablet every six hours even though I didn't have any pain (taking them to stop pain returning) people warned me as did the Hospital but I was so scared of the pain returning that I foolishly kept taking the tablets, I've not taken the tablets for 1 day now, im in terrible pain, my body feels like it's electrified, I don't know how to make myself better, I'm at my wits end.

I know I've been stupid, the tramadol made me pain free.

I'm not looking for a telling off just helpful advice as to how I can make myself better.

Am I experiencing withdrawal, it's awful.

My gf is with me so I am not on my own, this is not nice for her.

Never thought this would happen to me,  I'm 68.

In my desperation I've taken 2 50 mg tablets to try and stop the pain, it's worked, not better just more bearable, how do I go on from now, I never want to take Tramadol again.

 

 

Have you checked out https://thailandrehabguide.com/blogs/thailand-rehab-monastery/

 

The price may be right up your alley, and they do have a success rate.  

 

that has become a habit or addiction on your own, especially when pain is involved, is very difficult.  Being ina location that can help you and with people that will have empathy for you is a good thing.  

 

[ujayujay]

Painkillers only treat the cause of an illness. Go to the doctor and get advice on how to treat the cause of your pain!

[jeppeinasia]

Not an expert at this at all, but id go 3/4 of a pill for a couple of weeks, then down to 1/2 a pill for a couple of weeks then down to a quarter for a couple of weeks, and then try to stop. If I couldn't drop from 3/4 to a half in a couple of weeks, maybe try a month, etc. Seeking professional help is best.

[carlyai]

17 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Will the three days make all the difference?   5555

87 sounds better than 90.

From my experience 3 months give up is a great start, then 3 years you're probably there.

At least that was my experience giving up smoking. 🙂

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

Painkillers only treat the cause of an illness. Go to the doctor and get advice on how to treat the cause of your pain!

The cause of his pain is withdrawal. He is addicted to tramadol. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, jeppeinasia said:

Not an expert at this at all, but id go 3/4 of a pill for a couple of weeks, then down to 1/2 a pill for a couple of weeks then down to a quarter for a couple of weeks, and then try to stop. If I couldn't drop from 3/4 to a half in a couple of weeks, maybe try a month, etc. Seeking professional help is best.

Tramadol  is a capsule. Ultracet is s tablet but cannot be split. So 1/2, 1/4 etc are not options. He has to work wuth dosages of 37.5 or 50 and number of doses per day.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

I was referring to in patient re-hab, I know a doctor would be about 2500bht for a consultation.

No reason at all to think about costly  inpatient programs. 

 

Sounds like you have now decided to remain addicted. If in the future you ever decide to come out of the addiction I can refer to doctor specializing in this who can help with medications to control/lessen withdrawal symptoms. But you need to make that decision, and to summon up the determination to follow  through. 

[scubascuba3]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The cause of his pain is withdrawal. He is addicted to tramadol. 

Has his original pain gone? he never seemed to find a cause

[Badrabbit]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No reason at all to think about costly  inpatient programs. 

 

Sounds like you have now decided to remain addicted. If in the future you ever decide to come out of the addiction I can refer to doctor specializing in this who can help with medications to control/lessen withdrawal symptoms. But you need to make that decision, and to summon up the determination to follow  through. 

No I have not decided to remain addicted, I've been okay for years taking the Tramadol, I honestly can not cope with the withdrawel pain, at some point I might have to tackle it but for the moment I will continue as I am.

I'm obviously no where near as strong as other people when it comes to pain and the awful body relaxing syndrome, 

When the time comes for me to tackle getting rid of this addiction I will contact you for the details of the doctor you have mentioned.

 

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Has his original pain gone? he never seemed to find a cause

No cause was ever found other than the doctor saying "you have nerve pain"

Don't know if the original pain has gone as I have never stopped taking Tramadol, got myself into a big mess 

Edited October 28 by Badrabbit

[thecyclist]

Don't suddenly stop. You have to gradually taper off the dose. Very gradual. From 50 mg every 6 hours ,to either 50 every 7 hours for a week ,or down to 45 mg for a few weeks until maybe after 6 months your body can manage without the drug.

[Badrabbit]

Just now, thecyclist said:

Don't suddenly stop. You have to gradually taper off the dose. Very gradual. From 50 mg every 6 hours ,to either 50 every 7 hours for a week ,or down to 45 mg for a few weeks until maybe after 6 months your body can manage without the drug.

This is what I am trying to do, thanks for commenting.

[dddave]

Internet sources say taking no more than 100mg of tramadol/day is non-addictive.  I've been taking Ultracet (37mg) for two years to alleviate arthritis knee pain. Usually one tablet a day before activity, occasionally two tablets but never at the same time.  Each tablet taken usually gives me about 3 hours of useful pain alleviation.  I never take more than two tablets in a 24 hour period. So far, there seems to be no diminishment of effectiveness over my two years of use. I also will skip a day if no walking activities planned.

 

For me, Tramadol has been the most effective OTC medication I've tried for pain alleviation.  I understand it's risks and try to take those risks into account with my usage.  I'd hate to see Tramadol demonized as a treatment for whom there is no other easily available alternative.  NSAIDs are not nearly as effective and have their own dangers.  Tramadol is not a "cure" for anything, it's a treatment the consequences of which need to be balanced with it's benefits. 

It's a tragedy that so many very effective pain killers are not available because of overuse, demonization and outright greed by the Pharma industry.

Edited October 28 by dddave

[Sheryl]

23 minutes ago, dddave said:

Internet sources say taking no more than 100mg of tramadol/day is non-addictive.  I've been taking Ultracet (37mg) for two years to alleviate arthritis knee pain. Usually one tablet a day before activity, occasionally two tablets but never at the same time.  Each tablet taken usually gives me about 3 hours of useful pain alleviation.  I never take more than two tablets in a 24 hour period. So far, there seems to be no diminishment of effectiveness over my two years of use. I also will skip a day if no walking activities planned.

 

For me, Tramadol has been the most effective OTC medication I've tried for pain alleviation.  I understand it's risks and try to take those risks into account with my usage.  I'd hate to see Tramadol demonized as a treatment for whom there is no other easily available alternative.  NSAIDs are not nearly as effective and have their own dangers.  Tramadol is not a "cure" for anything, it's a treatment the consequences of which need to be balanced with it's benefits. 

It's a tragedy that so many very effective pain killers are not available because of overuse, demonization and outright greed by the Pharma industry.

The OP is taking more than 100 mg a day. And he is addicted. He also has no known reason for needing a pain killer as such, and what he is experiencing now is not return of chronic pain but withdrawal symptoms.

 

No one is "demonizing" tramadol. The OP however posted about an addiction problem.  Which he definitely has.  His situation and yours are different.

[how241]

You can easily pull apart the 50 mg tramadol  and knock out a little bit of the power.  It won't be and exact amount but you can certainly lower the amount you take.  Also you can dump out the entire capsule  and cut the power into 4 or 5 approximate size piles.  Again. won't be exact but close enough so you can slowly lower the amount you take each day.   You can then either add the small pile to water/soda and drink it down or to totally avoid the taste or buy some empty gelatin caps and put the power into that.   There have been many good suggestion made here. It's up to him to follow them or just keep talking about it.  

Edited October 28 by how241

[dddave]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The OP is taking more than 100 mg a day. And he is addicted. He also has no known reason for needing a pain killer as such, and what he is experiencing now is not return of chronic pain but withdrawal symptoms.

 

No one is "demonizing" tramadol. The OP however posted about an addiction problem.  Which he definitely has.  His situation and yours are different.

Sheryl:  I fully understood the distinction between the OPs situation and what I posted.  i was just making an effort to make clear that Tramadol is a useful medication.  There are those on this forum for whom everything is black & white and who are inclined to demonize medications without knowledge.  I wanted it to be clear to those for whom Tramadol is one of the few options that works, they needn't feel they are at risk for addiction if they use the medicine properly.

[PuiPuiHarry]

That's why I used tramadol ( or any other pain killer ) ONLY when the pain was too much. And after permission of my family docter even 8 per day, three days long. From then, only two a day, till the operation day, 3 months later. Yes, I suffered pain, but bearable.

[Gaccha]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:58 PM, Badrabbit said:

I am reducing the amount I take, was 4 now down to 3 over 24hrs.

 

Are the pills coated or slow release pills? You might be able to cut the pills up so you could taper more gradually. One entire pill cut is a big leap. 

 

Do you have a pill cutter device? You can buy at a big pharmacist or at Lazada for little more than 30 baht.

 

You then could make 1/4 pill cuts over a period of 2 or 3 months. You'd probably not even notice a withdrawal.

[JackGats]

Kratom was legalized in Thailand as an alternative to methadone. Switching from Tramadol to Kratom might be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire though.

[wombat]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:19 PM, Gaccha said:

methadone

Er...you can die coming off methadone.

He has an opioid addiction...no one dies from going cold turkey...suck it up cupcake and put up with the sh!t you're going to go through.

If that sounds harsh ...stiff sh!t, I watched friends after the Vietnam fiasco with habbits longer than your arm go through withdrawals and come out the other side.

There us no such thing as an ex junky...you're just a junky that hasn't scored yet.

[Badrabbit]

14 minutes ago, wombat said:

Er...you can die coming off methadone.

He has an opioid addiction...no one dies from going cold turkey...suck it up cupcake and put up with the sh!t you're going to go through.

If that sounds harsh ...stiff sh!t, I watched friends after the Vietnam fiasco with habbits longer than your arm go through withdrawals and come out the other side.

There us no such thing as an ex junky...you're just a junky that hasn't scored yet.

No thanks.

Your friends are well hard and I have nothing but admiration for them, I'll do this my way which is slowly.

Edited October 29 by Badrabbit

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, wombat said:

Er...you can die coming off methadone.

He has an opioid addiction...no one dies from going cold turkey...suck it up cupcake and put up with the sh!t you're going to go through.

If that sounds harsh ...stiff sh!t, I watched friends after the Vietnam fiasco with habbits longer than your arm go through withdrawals and come out the other side.

There us no such thing as an ex junky...you're just a junky that hasn't scored yet.

And how many end up in line for the methadone in the morning for a taste to take the edge off and spend all day doing what they have to get high? 

[connda]

On 10/27/2024 at 11:01 PM, Sheryl said:

You CANNOT safely do this. It is very dangerous and not at all the same as spliutting plain paracetemol.

 

"Cutting, breaking, crushing, chewing or dissolving ULTRACET can lead to dangerous adverse events including death"

https://www.mims.com/hongkong/drug/info/ultracet?type=full

There is a huge difference between breaking, crushing, chewing or dissolving any opioid (which addicts do to get a rush, especially if the pill is "extended release") and splitting a solid pill that is homogenized with equal amounts of acetaminophen and tramadol, and splitting it into two "half doses" of the original pill. I think you are missing the context of the warning.  Yeah, if someone chewed a few Ultracet tablets it could be dangerous.  Why?  Acetaminophen overdose.  Context.  Take too much Ultracet and introduce it into your system too quickly and, yeah, liver damage ala acetaminophen.

1/2 of an Ultracet exposes a person to 18.75 mg of Tramadol and 162.5 mg of acetaminophen.
That's low dosages of both drugs.

Btw, 50mg Tramadol capsules are in gelatin capsules with dissolve in the stomach and release the entire dosage of 50mg into a person's system.  Maximum dosage is 400 mg / day.  But if someone decides to get a buzz and just takes 400 mg of Tram?  That's dangerous.  And taking a bunch of Ultracet to get a Tramadol buzz?  Really dangerous and you don't even have to chew them.  Acetaminophen.  Liver damage.  Potentially deadly.
"Got NAC?"

Now if you are talking about "extended release" of pretty much any drug, I'll agree with you.  "Cutting, breaking, crushing, chewing or dissolving" any extended release drug exposes the body to a potential overdose.  Again - context. I think we both have backgrounds in Life Sciences and we're both intelligent people.  Think about it.

Edited October 29 by connda

[Badrabbit]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

There is a huge difference between breaking, crushing, chewing or dissolving any opioid (which addicts do to get a rush) and splitting a solid pill that is homogenized with equal amounts of acetaminophen and tramadol, and splitting it into two "half doses" of the original pill. I think you are missing the context of the warning.  Yeah, if someone chewed a few Ultracet tablets it could be dangerous.  Why?  Acetaminophen overdose.  Context.  Take too much Ultracet and introduce it into your system too quickly and, yeah, liver damage ala acetaminophen.

1/2 of an Ultracet exposes a person to 18.75 mg of Tramadol and 162.5 mg of acetaminophen.
That's low dosages of both drugs.

Btw, 50mg Tramadol capsules are in gelatin capsules with dissolve in the stomach and release the entire dosage of 50mg into a person's system.  Maximum dosage is 400 mg / day.  But if someone decides to get a buzz and just takes 400 mg of Tram?  That's dangerous.  And taking a bunch of Ultracet to get a Tramadol buzz?  Really dangerous and you don't even have to chew them.  Acetaminophen.  Liver damage.  Potentially deadly.

I  don't and have never had a buzz from Taking tramadol.

[shackleton]

See a doctor and get the correct professional advice on your medical problem 

[Badrabbit]

5 minutes ago, shackleton said:

See a doctor and get the correct professional advice on your medical problem 

I intend on going to Hospital at some point to get advice, at the moment I'm okay with my situation.

Thanks for the comment.

[connda]

12 hours ago, JackGats said:

Kratom was legalized in Thailand as an alternative to methadone. Switching from Tramadol to Kratom might be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire though.

Got any experience with either?  If not, you don't really know what you're talking about.  I could go into the chemical structures of the two and discuss stuff like the mu opioid receptors, various alkoloids, effect on serotonin and norepinephrine, etc., and as such why Kratom is an easier step-down then Tramadol, or Methadone, or Morphine, and other opioids. And there are chemical and biological reasons why.  But?  Probably over the heads of most AN readers who probably would be interested anyway.

 

[connda]

10 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I  don't and have never had a buzz from Taking tramadol.

True - but you have a Tramadol dependence, and given the discussions here you seem to be reluctant to take the steps necessary to taper and then quit - permanently.  Personally based on your discussion on this forum, I'd really suggest looking for professional help in withdrawing from Tramadol. 
If that is too much money for you, then look into a NA meetings in your area.  You strike me as someone who needs assistance with their withdrawals.  Go get it.