When Our Money Dies

[soalbundy]

14 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

Thank you, @timendres for taking your time to write and post.

 

However, the topic here is NOT USA social security.

That might be a big topic and worth some discussion, but this not that topic.

 

What my original post suggests is that all Western currencies, everywhere in the world, and going to zero value.

 

That is an exaggeration, it isn't in anyone's interest, not even BRICS would want that although in 3 to 5 years BRICS will cause a massive wealth transfer from West to East but an impoverished West will cause cause huge problems for BRICS themselves. As BRICS nations will see an increase in living standards there will be a corresponding fall in standards in the West, especially in heavily indebted America but not to poverty levels. The West will fight back of course and Europe with its great experience in manipulation  due to its colonial past may even mitigate the BRICS successes to some degree, America with its usual less sophisticated approach may even try war as a last resort but such methods are doomed to fail. Whatever, a great reset is coming, blessed are those without debt.

[1FinickyOne]

15 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

the OP on this thread goes much, much deeper than that.

the OP presented an upside down chart - how can that be taken as deeper or serious?

[ravip]

17 hours ago, UWEB said:

May be start learning how to post a Graph in the right way?

This is a graph showing money gone 'belly up'

[newbee2022]

17 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

When Our Money Dies

 

Our money is dying: Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Loonies, Shekels, Rand; all of it.

Here's a health chart:

 

 

 

Health chart is US Dollars, but similar decline for all Western currencies.

 

I'm not worried about me dying.

What worries me is my money dies before I do.

Bank account will still have some numbers.

Pension will transfer in every month.

But won't buy much of anything here.

Or anywhere.

 

Among my fellow Americans, a "last ditch" job for oldsters is working as a "greeter" at Walmart.

Big-C doesn't have greeters.

Retired expats can't work anywhere here.

Not even poke-poke sohm-dtam at a little market stall.

So, as our fiat money dies, buying less and less of life's little necessities -- like food -- what will expats do?

 

Comments and critique welcome.

 

 

I can't remember when I paid my bills with Gold😳

[FlorC]

17 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

When Our Money Dies

 

Our money is dying: Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Loonies, Shekels, Rand; all of it.

Here's a health chart:

 

 

 

Health chart is US Dollars, but similar decline for all Western currencies.

 

I'm not worried about me dying.

What worries me is my money dies before I do.

Bank account will still have some numbers.

Pension will transfer in every month.

But won't buy much of anything here.

Or anywhere.

 

Among my fellow Americans, a "last ditch" job for oldsters is working as a "greeter" at Walmart.

Big-C doesn't have greeters.

Retired expats can't work anywhere here.

Not even poke-poke sohm-dtam at a little market stall.

So, as our fiat money dies, buying less and less of life's little necessities -- like food -- what will expats do?

 

Comments and critique welcome.

 

 

Our money is dying ?? Not my money.

Isn't it your own fault ?

 

I'm getting richer every day doing nothing .

With gold and silver going up much , I now get a bit of the thrill of the bitcoiners.

 

You should have bought precious metals or crypto .

What worries me is that I die way before my money does.

Too much money and nothing to spend it on.

 

So basicly my post is the opposite of yours.

 

[renaissanc]

17 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

When Our Money Dies

 

Our money is dying: Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Loonies, Shekels, Rand; all of it.

Here's a health chart:

 

 

 

Health chart is US Dollars, but similar decline for all Western currencies.

 

I'm not worried about me dying.

What worries me is my money dies before I do.

Bank account will still have some numbers.

Pension will transfer in every month.

But won't buy much of anything here.

Or anywhere.

 

Among my fellow Americans, a "last ditch" job for oldsters is working as a "greeter" at Walmart.

Big-C doesn't have greeters.

Retired expats can't work anywhere here.

Not even poke-poke sohm-dtam at a little market stall.

So, as our fiat money dies, buying less and less of life's little necessities -- like food -- what will expats do?

 

Comments and critique welcome.

 

 

In my opinion,  people should keep  a minimum of their money in cash. Bank interest is extremely low. Gold has increased by 29% this year alone. The price sometimes drops a bit when buyers sell to reap the profit, but a week later the price goes back up again to new levels. ... if you buy it, hide it very well in secret locations.

[Peterphuket]

6 hours ago, zackxx said:

Yes physical gold is money (also physical silver) whereas all those fiat currencies you mention (and all fiat currencies used in the world) are just that: 'fake money", currencies (not money).

 

The rising "price" of gold in a fiat currency, like in your chart, just shows the value of that fiat losing value, or purchasing power, over time rather than the gold increasing in "value". Never save in a currency,  but in real money.

 

A simple analogy is a plane full of skydivers: the skydivers represent currencies that bob up and down relative to one another after they jump out of the plane. Gold on the other hand is the plane that follows a level course. Eventually all the skydivers reach the ground, like currencies with a value of zero.

The comparison is a bit off. If the plane runs out of fuel.....

Fill in the rest yourself.

[Andycoops]

My money increases by the rate of CPI every year, unless of course it's zero or minus and it that case my pension remains the same for another year.

[john donson]

I guess if you come from venezuela, or germany post WW2, you might understand

 

you had 10 million of whatever one day and a few days/weeks/ later it is worth a percentage of that...

[zackxx]

19 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

The comparison is a bit off. If the plane runs out of fuel.....

Fill in the rest yourself.

Or a skydiver could fall into an airborne hot air balloon basket?

 

The skydivers will hit the ground before their plane does, even if it does run out of fuel. Planes can glide right? 

So when the skydivers hit the ground, aka the value of these fiat currencies becomes valueless, the value of gold will skyrocket up.

[Wrwest]

18 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

When Our Money Dies

 

Our money is dying: Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Loonies, Shekels, Rand; all of it.

Here's a health chart:

 

 

 

Health chart is US Dollars, but similar decline for all Western currencies.

 

I'm not worried about me dying.

What worries me is my money dies before I do.

Bank account will still have some numbers.

Pension will transfer in every month.

But won't buy much of anything here.

Or anywhere.

 

Among my fellow Americans, a "last ditch" job for oldsters is working as a "greeter" at Walmart.

Big-C doesn't have greeters.

Retired expats can't work anywhere here.

Not even poke-poke sohm-dtam at a little market stall.

So, as our fiat money dies, buying less and less of life's little necessities -- like food -- what will expats do?

 

Comments and critique welcome.

 

 

Retired to Thailand 13 years ago as I could not enjoy an earned working middle class in the USA on my sustainable $2400 am onto ($1570 of that from SS). Pretty much retirement funds totally invested and showing a slight growth net even after that sustained transfer per month for living expenses (family of three) here in Chiang Mai. Happy camper.

[steve bn]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

 In most places   worldwide  governments are giving free handouts to millions and millions of illegals who have never paid one iota into the system and never will. 

No wonder western currencies are under pressure. 

They've paid alright, the invasion of Their countries by colonialists e.g Uk, Spanish, French, Usa, to name a few.

    They sucked Trillions out of the global south, even today the G20 still bleeds the poor countries dry, with unfair loans and free trade ripoffs. 

      No one is illegal, borders are for G20 to keep the poor out, while they rape and bomb their countries.

     I feel good when rich countries help out people fleeing, war, famine.  Australia gave visas/financial assistance to Ukrainian people who had their villages blown up by Putin.

     Dont be sucked in by rich White politicians who blame refugees to win votes.

        People of the world Unite

[spidermike007]

I am in the US right now, and the prices and inflation are mind blowing. The cheapest lunch we have found was $30 for two. Junky good. That is 1,000 baht, anytime you want something basic. A bag of groceries is 3,000 baht.

 

 A friend of mine is looking for an apartment to move to in LA, and really small, simple places are 70,000 baht per month and up. Nice two bedrooms are closer to 100,000 baht. Decent homes start at 125,000 baht per month. The cost of nearly everything has gone up dramatically. Runaway inflation? 

 

Thailand is still reasonable. It used to be cheap. Has not been cheap for a long time. But, it is still reasonable. I know people who pay 10,000 baht a month for newer 3 bedroom houses in nice towns. In major cities in the US? $2000-3800 a month. That is 120,000 baht!

 

I had my motorbike seat recently redone on my scooter. 400 baht. A friend of mine had similar work done in the US. $275.

 

I recently had a guy come over and insulate my ceiling. I bought the insulation and paid him 2000 baht for labor. In the US? $500 and up.

 

I recently had an electrician do some work on the house. Nearly a full day of work for two men. Paid him 2000 baht. In the US? $800 and up.

 

An oil change for my scooter costs me 200 baht, with Castrol oil. In the US? $75.

 

When I travel here I stay in nice four star hotels in Bangkok. Usually 1800-2000 baht. In the US? $130 for a crappy motel. $250 and up for a nice room.

 

I eat well here. In a smaller town you can get a three course meal for 150-250 baht. In the US? 2000 baht and up, plus tax and a nearly mandatory 15% tip.

 

I visit the emergency room here to visit a specialist, and with x-rays I am out the door for 2000 baht, at a private hospital. In the US? $300-2000.

 

An anecdote on this subject. A good friend of mine got in a bad motorcycle accident some time ago. He almost lost his leg. He got his first of 11 operations at Bangkok Hospital Samui. It costs him over a million baht. They wanted to do a second procedure. They quoted him 1,400,000 baht. He decided to transfer to Bangkok. He was quoted 460,000 baht for the same procedure, at a top private hospital there. The surgeon told him that he worked at a public hospital too, and could do the same operation there, for alot less money. He told him he would get him a quote. In the interim, my friend called a good friend of his, in San Diego, who is an orthopedic surgeon. Since my friend is a retired chiropractor, he knew all the terminology, and explained what he needed, and asked for the best price. His friend called him back the next day, and quoted him $960,000, with cash discounts! The local surgeon here got back to him, and told him he could do it for 46,000 baht. He transferred, and they did all the rest of his procedures. So, 1,400,000 at Bangkok Hospital, 460,000 at Vejthani Hospital, and 46,000 at the public hospital, with an excellent surgeon. VS. 31,000,000 baht in the US. Again, no complaints from this peanut gallery.

 

Friends of mine, who are single, enjoy the company of a young, beautiful woman for a couple of hours, for 2500 baht. In the US? $800 an hour now for a beauty, with alot of attitude.

 

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada. 

 

 

[Unamerican]

13 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I can send about £1460 a month to live here, made up of both an early pension and UK rental income (I rent out for £1000 but my village is £1500 - but I want my tenant). I get my full UK pension in 6 years.

Sounds good, and this prompts a question: 

Have you worked out the effects  (on you) of the new tax rules for money remitted  to Thailand?  Assuming you were tax-resident here. 

[Old Curmudgeon]

2 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

If the plane runs out of fuel.....

Fill in the rest yourself.

 

Excellent. 

Really excellent summary.

Wish I'd thought of that.

 

Thank you, @Peterphuket

[Old Curmudgeon]

2 hours ago, john donson said:

I guess if you come from venezuela, or germany post WW2, you might understand

you had 10 million of whatever one day and a few days/weeks/ later it is worth a percentage of that...

 

Right on target.

 

Thank you, @john donson for posting that here.

Edited October 28 by Old Curmudgeon

[Jenkins9039]

21 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

When Our Money Dies

 

Our money is dying: Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Loonies, Shekels, Rand; all of it.

Here's a health chart:

 

 

 

Health chart is US Dollars, but similar decline for all Western currencies.

 

I'm not worried about me dying.

What worries me is my money dies before I do.

Bank account will still have some numbers.

Pension will transfer in every month.

But won't buy much of anything here.

Or anywhere.

 

Among my fellow Americans, a "last ditch" job for oldsters is working as a "greeter" at Walmart.

Big-C doesn't have greeters.

Retired expats can't work anywhere here.

Not even poke-poke sohm-dtam at a little market stall.

So, as our fiat money dies, buying less and less of life's little necessities -- like food -- what will expats do?

 

Comments and critique welcome.

 

 

Debased by monetary inflation annually at ~8%

Variable inflation annually at ~2/4%

 

Salary increase average per annum 10%

 

Asset loss against debasement annualised 2.5% (real estate), Gold (2.7%) SPX - Flat. (2014-2024)

[Old Curmudgeon]

2 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Debased by monetary inflation annually at ~8%

 

Probably correct (I don't know), but missed the point of this thread.

 

Posts just above from @Peterphuket and @john donson explain it clearly.

 

I hope @Jenkins9039 will think a bit more and post further thoughts.

[Guderian]

Blame the Russian, Chinese and Indian governments. They're buying immense amounts of gold bullion with their foreign exchange reserves rather than stashing it away in dollars (with a little bit in Euros and even less in Sterling). It's not our money that's dying, why would you say that, it makes no sense? It's the post-war, dollar-based international financial system that's being undermined as it's being used by the US government more and more as a weapon of coercion. If you were Putin, Xi or Modi, you'd be doing exactly the same thing. 

[farangkinok]

18 hours ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

Well said, @timendres.

Thank you for taking your time to explain that.

 

And what frightens me is there is no safe haven.

Not financially.

Not in location.

At least, I don't see any safe haven.

Gold is the safe haven. You won't get rich, but you will retain purchasing power over the long run. Spend the paper money and save the real money, which is gold. At Hua Seng Heng, the difference between the buy and the sell price is 50 Baht, or about  0.1%

[Old Curmudgeon]

2 minutes ago, farangkinok said:

Gold is the safe haven.

 

I don't believe it.

 

Sure, on a price chart looks good.

But in a real life situation, I wouldn't count on gold (or silver) as a safe haven.

More likely to be a tempting target for thieves: both private thieves and thieves in uniforms with badges.

 

@farangkinok I hope you can counter my disbelief with further thoughts.

 

[newnative]

     My money isn't dying.  Dollar to baht today is 33.79.  In the 14 years I have been here I think it's ranged from a low of 28 or 29 to a recent summer high of around 37.  Probably the average has been around 31 or 32.  I didn't like when it dipped below 30 but that didn't last long.  Meanwhile, I get COLAs with my pension and Social Security  and the COLAs are easily keeping up with Thailand's low inflation.  

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Nothing is going to zero, not fiat currencies, not even gold, not even crypto. The Big Boys play the long game. They'll just turn up the heat (read: taxes) with a slow boil over the next few decades. No one'll be the wiser and the young kids will come up thinking it's always been that way.

[Old Curmudgeon]

8 minutes ago, newnative said:

I get COLAs with my pension and Social Security

 

@newnative seems to trust his government and a pension plan.

 

I don't.

I think both are fragile.

Thinking about Weimar hyperinflation in 1922-1923.

What if similar happens everywhere in the world, at the same time?

[harryviking]

WE should all be aware of the enormous debt in the world and that sooner or later, I guess sooner, there might come a day of judgement and it all has to be reset! That is when things really might get out of hand for all of us. I have at least tried to get ahead of this by collecting gold for a while. That, I guess, might last until things get back to normal again.......I hope....🙄🙄

[Old Curmudgeon]

I hope I can change the course of this thread slightly.

 

Instead of who is doing what behind the scenes,

instead of how much you pay monthly for your expenses,

what I think would be of benefit here is what are your thoughts

about how to survive -- as expats in Thailand -- when that airplane runs out of fuel??

 

Anyone??

 

[farangkinok]

2 minutes ago, Old Curmudgeon said:

 

I don't believe it.

 

Sure, on a price chart looks good.

But in a real life situation, I wouldn't count on gold (or silver) as a safe haven.

More likely to be a tempting target for thieves: both private thieves and thieves in uniforms with badges.

 

@farangkinok I hope you can counter my disbelief with further thoughts.

 

Is the currency (a government IOU) in your wallet not also a target for thieves? Would you rather have in your possession currency (which is just paper and ink) or gold, which has a 5,000 year history of being highly valued? You are free to decide as you wish.

[Old Curmudgeon]

2 minutes ago, harryviking said:

I have at least tried to get ahead of this by collecting gold for a while. That, I guess, might last until things get back to normal again.......I hope....🙄🙄

 

Good idea to collect gold.

But is it a good idea to announce that on a public forum??

 

And "until things get back to normal again", doesn't enter into my planning at all.

How do you think that might happen -- the getting back to normal??

[Dexxter]

4 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

I can't remember when I paid my bills with Gold😳

 

The idea is to keep your ASSETS in something that is stable and convert little bits at a time into cash for your day-to-day living expenses. Every birthday, anniversary and new year I give my wife a small gift of gold. Not handbags or other temporary trivia, but real gold from the local gold shop. I have taught her to appreciate the long term goal of having assets that will be there in an uncertain future. She now sees the value in her small hoard.

[bkk_mike]

20 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

What do you expect?

 

Cash is going to zero.

Your investments are in cash?

Not something that goes up, at least in line with inflation, like property, or stocks, or even gold, which was the chart you published.